hoohaa Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 I was wondering if any of you have experienced similar problems with the forums. I posted a question about shielding the MS from electromagnetic pulse in the assembly forum. It was promptly moved to The Pit, a forum for "non MS related topics". I sent a PM to "Lance" asking if my thread could be moved back, noting that my question was definitely "MS-related". Lance responded that my question had nothing to do with the MS, so it would not be moved. I went back and looked at the thread and I realized that I had not phrased it well, I wasn't specifically asking for information about how to protect the MS. I decided to rephrase the question so that it did relate directly to MS, delete my old thread, and post the new thread in "Wiring and sensors". I noticed that there were other threads in this forum specifically about shielding MegaSquirt, but they did not apply to the heavy-duty application I needed. I posted the thread in this forum thinking that this would be just fine, since I was not double-posting a question in two forums and since my question related directly to the MegaSquirt wiring harness. (I was asking about using the MS grounds for shielding or leaving them isolated) Less than 10 minutes later I was IP banned from MSEFI.com. I have to say that I have never been a problem on MSEFI in any way, shape, or form. I am (or was) a relatively new member. It is worrying me that I might be permanently banned from the site. If this is true I will have a very hard time learning what I need to know about MS for my installation on a VG30E which I planned for this winter. I spend many hours on the forums searching and reading. My question is have you guys heard or experience anything like this? Is this a common thing to have happen? I have never been IP banned on any forum before, and I have never heard of someone being reacted against so strongly and suddenly on any forum I have visited. Also, how closely is the MSEFI.com forum tied to B&G? Do they own/operate it? If so, I am pretty surprised and disappointed that their customers are being dealt with like this. I sent an email to megasquirt@msefi.com already but have not heard back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Why would you need to EMP shield your MS anyway, are you planning to operate it around nuclear detonations? Not saying you were in any way treated fairly, but it's possible they suspected your motives for asking about something like that? Craziest thing I ever heard of...(the banning, not the request) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoohaa Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 I know it's a strange request, but I have always been curious about what it would take to protect vehicle electronics from EMP, and I was just wondering about how to integrate the normal shielding people do to things like tach signals, etc. with heavier-duty shielding. I don't have many posts here, not many folks know me, but I am not leaving anything out. I have only posted a few times on MSEFI, and I have never said or done anything that could be even remotely considered "breaking the rules". I was very polite in my pm to Lance. If more folks are being treated this way on MSEFI then I would imagine B&G is losing lots of customers. If I am permanently banned I probably won't end up buying the MegaSquirt, simply because I need the information on the forum. There are a couple diagrams I never saved to my computer because I never dreamed I would be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 So how does being banned work, can you not even view the site at all, or are you just banned from posting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoohaa Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 This is what I get when I pull up msefi.com, or any pages in that domain: You aren't allowed to view this page. Continued attempts to access such pages WILL result in you being denied access to all pages. If you believe you are receiving this mesage incorrectly, email us at megasquirt@msefi.com, and send your username, email address, and IP: xx.xxx.xxx..x.x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 That's just weird...sorry to hear about your blacklisting, everything I know about megasquirt I learned from MobytheVan on Hybridz and my friend Sam at work (I usually refer to him as the 330whp Saturn guy), so I can't really relate to your www.msefi.com woes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Hmm.. I wonder if there is a problem they are experiencing with interference with other devices... All I can think is that your question meant more to them that you considered... they may have some legal problems to overcome with FCC violations... You may have set off red flags with your reposting of the question... There are limits to the amount of extraneous noise that devices can emit in certain conditions... If the device could be hooked up in such a way that it causes extreme interference... they might have trouble marketing the device as a consumer product... Any reference to problems.. or solutions to existing problems... could be used against them in a situation where they claim ignorance of problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 That's kind of what I was getting at too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoohaa Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 If this is the case, I really wish they would have let me know before banning me completely. From what I understand MSEFI.com is a company site, the actions of the admin and mods represent and reflect B&G to forum members and potential customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoohaa Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 Hmm.. I wonder if there is a problem they are experiencing with interference with other devices... All I can think is that your question meant more to them that you considered... they may have some legal problems to overcome with FCC violations... You may have set off red flags with your reposting of the question... There are limits to the amount of extraneous noise that devices can emit in certain conditions... If the device could be hooked up in such a way that it causes extreme interference... they might have trouble marketing the device as a consumer product... Any reference to problems.. or solutions to existing problems... could be used against them in a situation where they claim ignorance of problems... I thought about this for a little while. I know that the FCC has rules about the interference electronic devices can receive and produce. I will look into that more, though I am talking about shielding the device against interference, not allowing it to cause interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleaf Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Yes you meant to ask about EMI or RFI not really EMP. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoohaa Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 I asked directly about EMP, but a device shielded from EMP would also be well shielded against EMI and RFI. Did you see my thread earlier? I emailed Bruce Bowling just a moment ago as well. I think he should know what is going on with forum management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 HooHaa, In order to shield against EMP you need to add metal cladding to the entire wiring harness so the EM pulse wave won't generate a current spike as it passes over the wires. If you don't understand this do a little research on what happens in a wire when it's exposed to an alternating magnetic field. This is how a generator works and why it's a very bad idea to put conductive metal in a Microwave oven. Not sure why you want to shield for EMP though, you're not a terrorist looking to build a getaway car that will survive a nuke are you? JK One other thing to consider is that eventually your IP will change so their ban will not be affective, that is unless you have a static IP. bjhines, Just a guess on my part but I doubt a Mega-Squirt unit is going to produce enough EMI to be detectable over that which is generated by the coil and spark-plug discharges. The guys who run the MS project are all above board guys and may have a problem with HooHaa's IP because of a prior visitor to their site who was assigned the same IP HooHaa is now using, or one in the same range. Wheelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoohaa Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 Not sure why you want to shield for EMP though, you're not a terrorist looking to build a getaway car that will survive a nuke are you? JK Honestly I just want my vehicle electronics to be protected in the event of an EMP. I have no intention of causing one, but I don't want to be screwed if one does occur. The military does lots of work to shield their electronics, and my vehicle could be exposed to the same EMP as theirs, especially in the event of a high altitude air burst. One other thing to consider is that eventually your IP will change so their ban will not be affective, that is unless you have a static IP. I would imagine my name and account has been banned as well, but this is a thought. I have a work computer, perhaps I will login using that. If the admin is really having a bad day maybe they will ban that IP as well when I login. The guys who run the MS project are all above board guys and may have a problem with HooHaa's IP because of a prior visitor to their site who was assigned the same IP HooHaa is now using, or one in the same range. Wheelman I did not think of this. I can't think of a better explanation. Hopefully Bruce or Lance will respond to my emails and let me know what happened. I wish I could log in and access my private message folder. I seem to remember Lance seeming a bit irritated when he responded to my message. I didn't really think anything of it since I hadn't done anything wrong, but maybe I missed something there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 well... The question seems a little out there if you asked about EMP... The military specifies EMP "hardening" for their devices... you might have come off a little on the wild side... By bringing this EMP hardening/sheilding up twice... you may have been banned by a simple misunderstanding... EMP Electromagnetic pulse... first thing that comes to mind is NUKES... there are ways to convert camera flashes into weak EMP "guns?"... HIGHLY amplified radio transmitters can be focused and used as EMP weapons... you can literally FRY electronics with an EMP... EMI/RFI are various types of weak interference... there is literally a glow of electromagnetic radiation all around us... most of it is relatively weak and only causes localized problems... like within a few inches of a device... poorly designed switches and electric motors can cause full spectrum/broad band RFI interference.. but it is still fairly localized and modern tuners can filter it out... cheap electronic transmitters are also a source of trouble... and don't forget the MICROWAVE OVEN... bad door shielding can wreak havoc in the Gigahertz range(WiFi service)... Magnets and transformers can cause inductive EMI through ferrous metal objects palced nearby... usually this only makes a buzzing sound in the cabinetry.. but it can reach out and affect other devices... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.INSANE Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Im suprised no one has been nice enough to contact this "lance" and ask him whats going on. I would personally but ive never made an account and it would probally seem like im you and id end up getting banned aswell. I think you wouldnt have done anything wrong from what it seems your a pretty intelligent fellow i wish you luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 I really don't think you can do a whole lot to a piece of equipment like MS to make it more EMP resistant... You can stick it into a grounded "faraday box"... but then you would not be able to drive your car... It is alot easier to shield a bunker than a moving boject... Mobile military equipment had some pretty hard core design influences all the way down the IC chips and individual components... Mega Squirt uses off the shelf consumer electronic parts... They would have to spend tens of millions manufacturing custom MILSPEC IC chips and then go through YEARS of trials and redesigns and certifications.... Just to make one guy's EMP safe dream land come true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Actually, from reading the megamanual, MS seems especially PRONE to being affected by something like an emp. It mentions wearing a grounding wristband and working with a grounded work table and the like to reduce electrostatic damage to the components. I'm not sure you could do much to be the only car that doesn't get fried when the aliens invade (like the EFI dodge Caravan that Tom Cruise drove in War of the Worlds instead of his points equipped early mustang he chose not to drive). According to that movie, so long as your starter is disconnected when the pulse hits, you should be fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoohaa Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 Im suprised no one has been nice enough to contact this "lance" and ask him whats going on. I would personally but ive never made an account and it would probally seem like im you and id end up getting banned aswell. I think you wouldnt have done anything wrong from what it seems your a pretty intelligent fellow i wish you luck. I have assumed that Lance answers emails to megasquirt@msefi.com. I am not even certain Lance is the one who banned me. I simply followed the instructions that appeared on my screen once I was banned. I have no way to find Lance's personal email now that I am banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 EMP pulses can ruin brand new IC chips still in their protective wrappers in boxes on the shelf... All ICs are prone to static discharge which is completely different... but has a similar effect in killing the IC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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