chelle Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 Okay, and here's some pics of our red car's covers. We used brackets carved from billet and then polished. The trim rings were cut from .060 aluminum then filed to shape and polished and we used large flat slotted screws to hold them on. The brackets were attached by drilling holes through the body with bolts all the way through. Unfortunately not using a metal front end with tabs means you have to slightly shift the location of the inside rear brackets as there's no way to drill the mounting hole through the nose to perfectly match original. Honestly i don't see that as a problem though as our headlight buckets really are shaped different than original. Here's our solution... brackets aren't really noticable and it's a subtle enough difference i think to not be a concern Chelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy from Oz Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 (edited) Chelle - excellent research and wonderful information. Thank you. One more if I may. Could you provide the dimensions identified in the attached photo. Could you also explain the profile of those nostril scoops. Can I just use a suitable diameter cylinder or is it a more complex shape like the original Alpha scoops? Eric appears to created a spoon-type profile like the Alpha. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2922491/1962-ferrari-250-gto/page-2 I intend to make numerous modifications to the front section to create a more GTO-like appearance, e.g. bonnet (hood), brake ducting, etc, but I'll take each modification at a time. Edited December 28, 2010 by Boy from Oz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy from Oz Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 (edited) And yet one more question. I see that you have the headlight trim retaining screw at the top, due I assume to there being no access at the bottom. Does that mean you have fitted the buckets and lenses upside down, and if so, does that create headlight alignment issues, assuming they are uni-directional lenses, i.e. suitable for only either LHD or RHD? Edited December 28, 2010 by Boy from Oz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 I have some work stuff that's gonna keep me busy most of the day, will reply tonight when i get home the buckets are not upside down though, i made the decision to install the rings upside down due to the lack of access to the screw when placed properly. It's less than ideal but works. I'm trying to find a more appropriate trim ring though will post pics and measurements tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 okay, sorry for slow reply.. the scoops on our red car are not like an Alpha, on the Alpha for some reason they really made it a coumpound curve, almost like a bowl. It could be for improved airflow, or the original was formed using pics that didn't show it clear or simply artistic license, i honestly don't know.. On ours they are closer to the original, but still not exact.. that's a nice thing about the original GTO's, they were all slightly different.. some had additional scoops, different driving lights, hood bulge shapes, etc.. I even have some pics of one with little bumpers so there's always some wiggle room mkaing a replica 250GTO unless you are trying to match one specific car. Or air intakes in front of the hood are 7.25" wide and 6.5" front to back, and they are on 9 7/8th" centers leaving about 2 5/8" of material between each scoop. To make them just use 3 simple cylinders secured in place. I used plastic paint mixing containers as they were thick and sturdy enough to hold their shape, and the resin wouldn't attack them. Once I built up the panel and the glass had cured I was able to pop the "forms" right out and cut away excess to get the look. I attached some pics of the nose as i was modifying it as well as an original Alpha1 nose and then some close up pics of some original GTO noses to see the angle to cut away the intakes and placement of the Dzus fittings. Last pic is of an unusual original GTO as it was seen at one point.. i can't remember which ca it is, but i do recall during a restoration it was changed to how the scoops look on most of the others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 The pic of the Alpha nose leaning against the wall reminded me of the difference i mentioned in the nose. Our headlight buckets are longer than the original GTO's as our noses (on all the fiberglass GTO replicas) are flatter across the front. For comparasin here's overhead view of an Alpha1 nose, the nose on our red car, an original GTO and an original GTO in bare metal being restored an same with paint Hopefully me hitting you with so many pics is useful to you an others an not seen by the mods as me being a bandwidth hog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy from Oz Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Very informative - many many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Brio Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 (edited) Happy New Year everyone !!! All the best in 2011 Edited December 31, 2010 by Con Brio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclark999 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I agree completely about the doors.. I do want to replace them too. Some of my changes are going to require redoing the paint anyway, so I'm not too worried about the paint. My preference is to toss the doors completely and make new ones from aluminum. This will accomplish so many things. 1, I can save weight 2, Aluminum doors skinned in aluminum will look a lot better, sound and feel better when closing, and no potential moisture trap causing rust. When you look in the door gaps you'll just see the thin edge of a metal door rather than the thick edge of a glass skin glued to the Z's steel door. 3, an new aluminum door will allow all the dimensions to be brought more in line with how the GTO's are supposed to look. I can use a smaller door, extend the back of the front fender back, raise the door sill, and change the angle of the opening at the rear. I attached two profile pics, one with a grid superimposed on it and one without the grid to show the side by side comparasin of our red GTO replica with the extended wheelbase shown above an original GTO being restored with the door removed.. The stock GTO door is smaller in all directions, which actually makes our lives easier.. we don't have to cut into the rocker or door jamb, we "just" have to add material to fill in the gaps if a more correct door is made I hope that helps anyone trying to come up with a way to make changes (assuming you want to - stock wheelbase is still a darn attractive car in my mind) I honestly think the rise of the rear fender is pretty accurate and with a smaller door opening you could correct the angle of the back esge of the glass frame and extend the curve of the rear fender forward enough to make the hips line up with a new more correct door .. i'll do another pic so show what i mean Other differences the rear wheel openings are bigger on the original too and the windshield wraps around more.. oh, and the fenders curve down quicker at the front.. and the ScorpionZ guy's rear spoiler is a lot more accurate than most of the others Chelle I had these two pictures up on my computer and my girlfriend walked by and said, "That bottom car gorgeous!" Which got me thinking all over again. Why doesn't anyone like Factory Five make a GTO kit car from the frame up that is dimensionally accurate to the original GTOs? I've heard Ferrari sues the pants off anyone that tries it, but since they were supposed to make 500 to really be homologated, and they made less than 50, then it seems like someone else ought to be able to make the remaining 450 or so. Anyway, thanks for the pics! Keep using up the bandwidth. This forum is finally getting really interesting. For now, my goal is to get the car done with the VR body as it came. Once its on the road, I'll think about upgrades. Front suspension work continues this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclark999 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The pic of the Alpha nose leaning against the wall reminded me of the difference i mentioned in the nose. Our headlight buckets are longer than the original GTO's as our noses (on all the fiberglass GTO replicas) are flatter across the front. For comparasin here's overhead view of an Alpha1 nose, the nose on our red car, an original GTO and an original GTO in bare metal being restored an same with paint Hopefully me hitting you with so many pics is useful to you an others an not seen by the mods as me being a bandwidth hog Where did you find the picture of the real 250 GTO build? Can you post a link? Any pictures of the chassis without the body on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I had these two pictures up on my computer and my girlfriend walked by and said, "That bottom car gorgeous!" Which got me thinking all over again. Why doesn't anyone like Factory Five make a GTO kit car from the frame up that is dimensionally accurate to the original GTOs? I've heard Ferrari sues the pants off anyone that tries it, but since they were supposed to make 500 to really be homologated, and they made less than 50, then it seems like someone else ought to be able to make the remaining 450 or so. Anyway, thanks for the pics! Keep using up the bandwidth. This forum is finally getting really interesting. For now, my goal is to get the car done with the VR body as it came. Once its on the road, I'll think about upgrades. Front suspension work continues this weekend. I love your reasoning on the "remaining 450" though it would be 464 Unfortunately Ferrari would sue.. as they often threaten.. most of the time they never go to court, the threat of being bankrupted by their team of lawyers entering into a long legal battle is enough to get shops to cave in without a fight. The factory doesn't usually get involved in the US and instead leaves it to their USA Distribution arm "FNA" and a lawyer in New York. That office is the one that calls and gets Ebay to cancel any auction that uses a Ferrari logo or even the word in the description on anything but items made by or licensed by Ferrari.. I've been told of a person with corvette that said "painted Ferrari red" had his listing removed from ebay at the request of lawyers from FNA GTO replicas are never going to have the following here of the Cobra's "all American" Ford fan following. I guess the only way we're likely to see a Factory Five style accurate body and chassis offered is is someone makes an accurate body and sell plans to make the correct chassis.. They may still face legal threats, but the issue is the people with the desire to make the accurate series one body aren't really interested in running a business making them. I suppose I could commission a body and set of molds and when someone wanted a body i could hire a shop to make one from my mold, but again, if I do that much effort I'd rather do it in aluminum.. The number of people willing to pay for that is going to be even smaller.. I do have pics and some tech drawings of the bare GTO chassis, happy to share some more pics. It's basically a 250 frame that uses oval tube ro the two main rails with a birdcage type structure to support the boda and the aluminum skin over that. I'll dig through my archives a bit for the good stuff but here's a few to show the basic scructure of the chassis First - a Ferrari 250 GTE frame to show the basic layout of a Ferrari frame so we know the foundation of a GTO chassis second - 250 GTO bare Chassis next a few pics of a 250 GTO with some of the basic internal sheetmetal and roof, firewall etc some good closeups of what supports the body and everything up front Finally a wireframe like they would use when forming the body panels to test fit before securing them to the chassis Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy from Oz Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Slightly off the topic but I'm a bit of a fan of historic race cars and I stumbled across these photos of Tom McBurnie, builder of the ThunderRanch GTO replica. http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=83229&st=80&start=80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Slightly off the topic but I'm a bit of a fan of historic race cars and I stumbled across these photos of Tom McBurnie, builder of the ThunderRanch GTO replica. http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=83229&st=80&start=80 very kewl! I love seeing vintage shots like that! Just the other day I was going through scans of pics from when I was a kid and found a couple from the old road course at Riverside California.. which is now a housing development.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy from Oz Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) There is a big thread about Riverside on those forums and another about 'lost' circuits. Also, only 100 cars were required for 'Omologato' and it is strange that while there were never 100 Aston Martin DB4 GT Zagatos, nor Lightweight E-types produced nothing is ever said about them being allowed homologation Back to the present - I've copied the nostril dimensions and I don't consider, in my case, there is enough variation to warrant altering the positions. I have to compromise from time to time because if I chased every detail I would never get the car finished. I will however be reshaping the interior of the intakes and making covers. Thanks for the advice. Edited January 14, 2011 by Boy from Oz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D2W Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I had these two pictures up on my computer and my girlfriend walked by and said, "That bottom car gorgeous!" Which got me thinking all over again. Why doesn't anyone like Factory Five make a GTO kit car from the frame up that is dimensionally accurate to the original GTOs? I've heard Ferrari sues the pants off anyone that tries it, but since they were supposed to make 500 to really be homologated, and they made less than 50, then it seems like someone else ought to be able to make the remaining 450 or so. Anyway, thanks for the pics! Keep using up the bandwidth. This forum is finally getting really interesting. For now, my goal is to get the car done with the VR body as it came. Once its on the road, I'll think about upgrades. Front suspension work continues this weekend. Hi all. I've been lurking on this site forever because I enjoy looking at your work. Excellent by the way. The reason factory five doesn't make a GTO is because of being sued by ferrari. They have been sued by shelby twice, (winning both times) but ferrari has historically been more rabid about protecting their designs, and Mark Smith has stated that factory five will not build another "replica model. On a side note Mark Smith has started another company (Smyth Performance) and is in the process of building a new car. It is based on a VW Jetta, its midengine and has a custom body. He is sharing the prototype build here http://www.facebook.com/SmythPerformance and is almost done. To finance the new company he sold an aluminum 250 GTO body from his personal toy collection. DP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Funny bit in the news the other day, anyone else laugh a little inside at the news Ford is sueing Ferrari becasue they named their new racecar the "F150"? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Short bed or long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venus Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Some photos of Ferrari 250GTO 3387. I took these photos & rode in the car on track. You guys are doing a great job on the kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagster Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Hello, anyone out there know of any of these 250 body kits that are never going to be finished? I have a 73 240 that I am making mechanically strong, and the body is nasty, and this would be a great opportunity to do the body over with this kit. Would like to hear from some of you who have suffered through this conversion and educate me on what I am getting into. Thanks in advance. Oh, I am in Hopkinsville, KY, have a nice big shop and have wanted to do this conversion for lots of years, never got around to it. What do you think of the roadster model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagster Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Funny bit in the news the other day, anyone else laugh a little inside at the news Ford is sueing Ferrari becasue they named their new racecar the "F150"? lol Wow! I can't believe you are up in Gurnee, Il. My brother lived up there for years. I am from the Chicago area myself, and am a certified car nut, having owned more cars than most families would own in a lifetime. I have been into Jaguars forever, had 3 Aston Martins,and the rest is way too many to count. I have always admired the 250GTO since it came out,and watched a number of them race. The other Ferrari I admire, perhaps moreso, is the 250 GT Berlinetta, and sure wish someone would consider doing a kit for that model. It was a short wheelbase car. I hope you get this memo, and give me a call sometime, or an email. You seem to have a good handle on these cars, and I really want to build one on my 240Z chassis. Anyway, so glad I found this site and will watch it with great interest. Ron Stephenson, Hopkinsville,Ky 270 886 7933 jagster911@bellsouth.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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