Complete front and rear subframe swap

[Guest bigredram3500]

I wouldnt use TEMS, youd probably be dissapointed. You can hack it to keep it in Sport mode but it still barely has any range of adjustablity. You could go with Tein w/ EDFC, far superior-Ive used it on a MKIII. Im looking at swapping in the MKIII stuff into my 76Z and thought about Ground Control coilovers, heres my thoughts on it. They use Eibach springs that can be made to any lb/rate you spec, I dont think anything made for the Supra will ever work to its full potential in such a different chassis. Same with the dampners, Koni Sports are adjustable and they will custom valve them for you and are rebuildable. Also, if your spring rate calculations are a little off, you can adjust spring rate a little w/ the coilovers. Sorry if this is a little off track, hope it helps.

[ThreeDeadZs]

I wouldnt use TEMS... Sorry if this is a little off track, hope it helps.

Off track? Heck, you are right on! And, I think you are absolutely correct. Tokiko 5 ways are another option not mentioned, but your idea sounds well thought out. I was actually thinking of using a modified TEMS system, but your solution sounds the best so far.

 

I hope to do this work during the summer, so if you are serious about your 76Z/Supra MkIII project, let's keep in touch and work stuff out together. If you like, I'll email you my phone number. If you are close enough, we might even visit in person.

 

Matthew

[Guest bigredram3500]

Hey Mathew, Yeah the only reason I toyed in doing this is because I have both chassis and Im subframing and caging the car. Making subframe pickup points will be easy. Ill know more after I finish tearing down the Supras and get the Z up in the air. Ill keep you posted, and do the same.

[ThreeDeadZs]

You've got it!!! Would you like a group of detailed pictures of a Supra MkIII subframe on an eight foot lift? The scanner is finicky and a bit broken, but if you want me to I'll make it work. You've got the car, but the pictures might be useful. I see that you are in Spokane, Washington. That's a very long drive, but possible. After you wrote I asked to see if a friend would take care of my farm while I visit you, and he agreed as long as his wife lets him. I absolutely must know if you are serious about this project, or you will be wasting my time and limited resources, possibly leaving me unable to complete my project. What is your age and experience? Don't joke around. Please explain in detail. Likewise, you'd probably want to know how serious I am. So here is my answer:

 

I have very limited money, three Z cars, and a lot of imagination and skills, not including welding (but have friends that do weld). I've always bought broken beaters and rebuilt them, but never tried such an extensive project as building a hybrid race car... yet I'm committed, and educated. I'm 39 years old and have a large handwritten folder on this exact project, and my library contains 13" of books related to Z and race cars. I might even own ever Z book in existence, but am not sure. I put a lot of time reconstructing my first Z car (which may not end up as this hybrid, itself) and am a loyal Toyota fan. In fact, I must confess my only interest in a Z car is it's unibody design and style, ability to hold a straight six, and it's suitability to this very project. Feel free to reply both in the forum and directly to me at (and to avoid bots gleening my address) my first name as shown below, followed by 3220, then at yahoo. I have a new email address that I do not want to divulge in this particular way, but use it if it is in my profile.

 

I look forward to hearing from you, and once we establish direct contact, I'll give you my phone number. I have unlimited long distance, and will be glad to "pay" for any call. Remind me right after you call, and I'll call you back for free. For the sake of others, let's inform the forum of whatever information will help them. In fact, assuming we both succeed, let's build a web site showing others how to copy us, if they decide to do so.

 

Matthew

PS. If you are just musing, make yourself clear. The conversation is still welcome and might still be interesting. My preference, of course, is that you are serious.

[Guest bigredram3500]

Hey,

Na, Im pretty serious but it may be a while before I can start. Its nothing that will be finished soon. Its going to be my long term project to keep my self occupied when Im not working. As far as meeting, thats a ways away. Im still in the "find space in the shop" stage. I do have the Z and two complete Supras, one has a built motor. Its pushed 450+hp to the ground through a slushbox last summer before it was hit. It should be fun, right now Im concentrating on stripping the Z down and mocking in the drivetrain, then Ill approach chassis. Once I get started Ill get some pics up, though it may be a month or so. Keep in touch.

[Tireburner]

Did anyone ever end up using a supra rear subframe assembly ? Im currently considering this since I will be using a 1uzfe and supra trans and being Ive had lots of time around supra's the rearend is stout rear diff.

[Hypertek]

go s13 240sx rear subframe. It is practically the same design used in the skylines and Z32. It is good and has a huge aftermarket.

[ThreeDeadZs]

I've been out of the game for while, lost my house and had to sell my cars, couldn't log into my account, and have done some more research. 

 

Slight change in donors:

Supra MkIII is now rare without the aftermarket support, and the MkIV is rare and expensive...

Lexus SC300/400 subframes are basically detuned Supra MkIV subframes - and able to be changed to hold MkIV components.

Lexus IS series (Altezza/Gita/IS200/IS300/many other variations) - arrived in the US in 2001 as the IS300, but started in Japan in 1998 ('99 model?).  Based on the Supra subframes, narrowed.  Original IS200 was only 3000lbs.  Not verified, but pretty certain to support many of the same upgrades as the Supra MkIV.  Series includes the Lexus IS-F.

 

So the Lexus (such as IS300) subframes are still self-contained, and appropriate to the build. They are fully supported by the aftermarket upgrade companies.

 

Are Nissan front subframes self-contained?  (see next post)

Edited June 11, 2013 by ThreeDeadZs

[ThreeDeadZs]

350Z as subframe donor for 240Z-280Z:

I've been considering the 350Z subframes for donors, as they are much more appropriate due to being all Nissan, and because the 350Z is a better performer in autocross than the IS300.  The rear is really obvious, with few connection points.

 

However, I have not figured out the fronts!  I now have a factory manual for a 2006 350Z, and there are many aluminum components up front that are bolted together.  The steering is on the same subframe as the engine, but the suspension may be self-contained on another, and the transmission mount appears rather integral.  Without buying a wreck, or poking around in one in the right stage of dis-assembly in a junkyard, I'm at a loss to determine how many connection points are required.  Here's page BL-209 which shows the suspension geometry, but it is not clear to me which subframe components are required, or whether the 350Z would be a straightforward subframe donor.  (Nissan didn't exactly write the manual for "how to reuse the subframe on another body!"):

Edited June 11, 2013 by ThreeDeadZs

[ThreeDeadZs]

It is implied by some articles that the 350Z front suspension (with 14 patents) is carried by a single front subframe.  But without verification, I'm at a loss as to how to proceed.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/nissan-350z-design2.htm

"There was just one level of suspension tuning for the 350Z, although both 17-inch and 18-inch wheel/tire packages were offered. The front suspension was carried in a subframe mounted directly to the body structure."

 

I found a source of used parts that has a pretty good database for comparison.  It shows the front and rear subframes for all kinds of vehicles (including 350Z, 370Z, SC400 are in stock at the moment)

http://www.slidegood.com/part-categories/suspension/subframe-and-crossmember.html?body_type=84&dir=desc&mode=list&order=price

I went ahead and called them.  I spoke to John which was really informative.  He's under the impression that only the front "crossbar" and "engine cradle" and a fabricated strut top-mount would be needed to mount to a custom frame under an S30 body.  They strip cars to individual pieces in Minnesota, but can give package deals, especially if requesting the set before they actually get and strip the car.  He quoted a ballpark of $2000 as a package deal for full suspension, brakes, and steering (maybe a bit more) and freight of about $200 to California.  He also mentioned that they (his shop?) was doing a VQ35 to 240Z swap, but went with an RB25 instead.

 

He said I'd probably save some money with an IS300, but they don't get them in.  He even knew the specific difference between the G35 and 350Z components off the top of his head.

 

Can anyone verify the necessary supports for this swap? 

 

Any input would be appreciated, including links to any current tube-frames fully documented.