Bartman Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I saw an add in my latest issue of Hot Rod for a "PERFECT HI-RPM Kit for LT1". The package consists of an ECM, wiring harness and cam and it claims tht you get 365 HP and over 360 ft/lbs of Torque on an otherwise stock engine. That's quite a gain for just these items. I looked at the Painless Performance web site and I found it, but it doesn't list a price. It's part number 65205 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbc3 Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Bart, 365 crank HP out of just a cam and tuning.... doubtful. That would be an 80 HP gain without touching anything else! The stock computer and wiring are pretty good. There is a 7000 rpm limit to the stock PCM. If that system is planning on spinning a stock bottom end beyond 7000 to get those HP gains, you are asking for trouble. If you are looking for cranking up the HP on your LT1, I am selling my stock LT1 ported heads w/ 2.0/1.56 Manley valves, 955 springs, Titanium Retainers , ported intake and cam that are on my LT1 in my 280Z now. My f-body made 378 RWHP (estimated 430-440 crank HP) with these heads, intake and slightly smaller cam on the stock bottom end and the stock computer with an LT1-edit tune. I also had 1.6 RR's, a 58MM TB and headers. It's the whole package that gets you the big gains... not just one thing. When I stroked the bottom end I didn't see the HP gains I would like to have, so I am upgrading the heads. I still have the flow sheets for these heads and I may still have the dyno sheet. These heads flow 252/197. I am upgrading to Lloyd Elliott stage 3 ported, 217cc raised runner Trick Flow heads, welded and ported LT4 intake, and a larger cam. I still plan on using the stock computer. I have the motor half apart and hope to get it back together within a couple of weeks. I am swamped at work right now, so I can not devote a ton of time to the swap. I am soooooo glad I put heat in the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat240zg Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Jody: What are you looking to get for the heads, etc ? Bryan Dat240zg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno74Z Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Bart, PW65205 - Painless "Perfect" Engine Management System -(Controller, Harness, Camshaft) - For Chevy LT1 Engines - 365 HP Upgrade Pace Price $1,705.97 "The new LT1 system produced 370 HP and 387 lbs/ft of torque. That’s a 45 HP gain over stock. No tinkering, no dialing, no calibrating. Just install the camshaft and plug the system in." From Painless This was part of my reason why I asked the question 4 days ago - What is the rated HP of the Camaro LT1 engine. The numbers just don't add-up. To my knowledge no LT1 engine made 325HP. 305 was the highest ever achieved on the base LT1. The LT4 made 330 HP but that was a different engine with some similarities to the LT1. Somebody is fibbing! My first question - Why does the ZZ4 make so much more HP (355) then the LT1 (285) when they are basically the same engine. These numbers don't add up either. The ZZ4 does have a bigger cam in it but it uses the old L98 heads which I read are inferior to the LT1's - I don't know? So how can a cam produce 70 more HP? Here are the cam and engine specs of both engines. I would sure like to know where all the ZZ4 HP comes from? ZZ4 camshaft and Head Specs. Camshaft - Part # 10185071 Billet steel Hydraulic Roller Camshaft. Intake Lift- .474" Intake Duration @ .050" 208 Exhaust lift- .510" Exhaust Duration @ .050" 221 Lobe Centerline-112 Cylinder Heads - Part # 12556463 cast Aluminum 1987-1991 Corvette L98 Head. 58cc Combustion Chamber, 163cc Intake Runner Volume.1955-1986 Intake manifold Bolt pattern, "D" Shaped Exhaust ports,Centerbolt Only Valve Cover Bolt Pattern Layout,No Exhaust heat Crossover passages.Ends Of Heads Are Drilled For Standard Accessory Bolt Pattern. Angle Plug Configuration. LT1 camshaft and Head Specs. Camshaft - Part # 12551705 Billet steel Hydraulic Roller Camshaft. Intake Lift- .447" Intake Duration @ .050" 201 Exhaust lift- .459" Exhaust Duration @ .050" 208 Lobe Centerline-112 Cylinder Heads: (10168448) Cast Aluminum, 2 valves per cylinder/16 valves total, ~212 CFM flow (Impala SS and Caprice heads were made of cast iron*) Valve Diameter: (intake- 10241743, exhaust- 12550909) 1.94 intake, 1.50 exhaust Compression Ratio: 10.4:1Combustion Chambers: 54 cubic centimeters Thanks, Danno74Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbc3 Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Bryan, sent you a PM. It all boils down to buyer beware. These advertized numbers are usually exagerated or they "forgot" to mention that their test car happened to get a few other upgrades in the process of installing the part that they are advertizing. It is a shame, but typical. Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 I'm not sure how they come up with those numbers, and it is hard to believe you can get that without any work to the heads. This wouldn't be something for me, as I should have well over the claimed horsepower in my current setup than what they are claiming with this one. My heads have stage IV porting, including a fully upgraded top end. I was planning on putting my car on the dyno, but my Opti broke on me just before my appointment. Everything is working great now, so I just need to make another appointment so I'll know where I'm at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that240guy Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 most stock LT1 engines that I have seen on the Dyno put down anywhere from 235-275 hp at the wheels depending on if it is an auto or a stick and mileage of course. I just finished installing a brand new LT1 in my friends 95 camaro. The motor is all stock with the exception of a comp cams 224/230 .501"/.510" on a 112 and a set of hooker shorty headers. We put it on the dyno and started tuning it with Cat Tuners and made 338 hp at the wheels. I don't know if painless is advertising that number as a flywheel or rwhp number. Either way, it is an extremely expensive package. Why would you need a new harness and computer? The stock computers and harnesses are abundant, very cheap, and very tuneable. And cams arn't too expensive either. $1,700 sounds like a joke to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno74Z Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 that240guy, Looking at your numbers on the cam swap in the new LT1 engine you made anywhere from a 63HP to a 103HP gain with a cam and good tuning on an otherwise stock LT1. (338HP - 235HP or 338HP - 275HP) Either way it tells me you can really wake up the LT1 engine with a cam swap. What is the model number on that cam you put in the 95 Camaro? It is a little bigger then the GM hotcam but not too much. How is the idle? I would never pay $1,700 for the Painless kit either but that is just me. Danno74Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 That240Guy, If you read the second post in this thread you'll see that the strock PCM has a 7000 rpm limit. The Painless computer is supposed to be able to go higher than that, but as jbc3 says you risk blowing the bottom end. I agree with you though, why spend the extra money on an after market computer when the stock PCMs are plentiful, cheap and very tunable with inexpensive software tools. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that240guy Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 the cam that I mentioned is in the Summit Catalog in the F body section in the back. The part number is cca-07-503-8. And to correct my last post, the lift is actually .503/.510. But I would not dare spin a stock bottom end LT1 over 6500 rpm for any period of time. You are asking to blow the rings out and start consuming oil or even worse, spin a rod/crank bearing. The cam I mentioned peaked power at 5400 rpm making 6000 rpm shifts perfect. Anyway the car idles pretty darn smooth. I havn't heard a hotcam in a few years but if my memory serves me correctly, it sounds about the same. But as far as stock heads go, going bigger than a cam like this won't net any more power. This cam that we use on all of our stock headed LT1s is pretty nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z48LT-1 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 that240guy, Surely not stock rockers and valve springs on that 338? Curious Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno74Z Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 that240guy, Thank you for the information on the cam. Z48LT-1, asked my next question was the rest of the engine totally stock? 338HP at the rear wheels with just a cam change is very impressive! That means you are close to 400HP at the crank. I have read in a lot of publications and on the web that this fellow does some very good work with the LT1 head. Those boy's from Texas surevknow how to make some good power! I am thinking about going this route. The most bang for the buck and it is a complete package. Lloyd Elliott 101 Ridge Crest Red Oak, Tx 75154 http://www.eportworks.com/ Here is just one item from his web page. Head/cam package will pull from 2,000 to 6,200 RPM and should make *370 – 390 RWHP with 30 lb. injectors, 52 MM T.B., 1 ¾ LT’s no cats, good tuning, etc. This will have an idle similar to the HotCam, CC 305, etc. but will make more HP & TQ than these cams with the same RPM range. The LE1 heads consist of: Stock Valves with Back Out CM 612 Spring Retainers & Locks 195 CC Intake Port Milling Cleaning Assembly Flow About 260/180 Ready To Bolt On *The HP#’s mentioned are typical for an F-body with 6 speed, stock rear and with ALL of the complimenting parts mentioned. LE1 Head/Cam Package - $1,200 plus shipping. $850 for Heads only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbc3 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 The 2 places that seem to be getting the best press and times on the LT-1's are Lloyd Elliott and AI (Advanced Induction) http://www.advancedinduction.com/AiHome.htm Call Lloyd and talk to him, he is very personable and does a great job. Look at my earlier post.... see who ported the heads I am putting on. Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that240guy Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 The cam I mentioned used a comp spring also. I don't remember the part number on the spring. We just called comp and told them what cam we had and they sent us the appropriate springs. The rockers are stock though. The cam isn't big enough to need slotted rockers or anything fancy. About a year back we did a Llyod elliott heads cam package on a 1996 LT1 and also did an OBD1 conversion. We used the stage II heads with a stage III camshaft and longtube headers with a BBK throttle body. On the dyno it put down 405 hp and 390 torque. Nice set up, I just didn't like revving the stock bottom end of the LT1 to 6800 rpm. And I know the Optispark doesn't like it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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