mario_82_ZXT Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Please spill the beans!!! So are you saying I can run distributorless ignition with a modified/capped off dizzy?? Hmm... but isn't one of the problems is play in the dizzy drive shaft that can cause bad timing/signal in the first place?? Mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB280ZT Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 This is great information. So will you be making anymore of those nice distrubutor caps? Now because some of the coils have ignitors as part of the coil do you need drivers such as the VB921 from the MS system to drive the coils? HB280ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted March 8, 2007 Author Administrators Share Posted March 8, 2007 You're modified ZX disty now provides cam position information to the ECU? Yes. Can you describe the output waveform? 7 pulses per revolution, square, 12 volts. Leading edges 120 (crank) degrees apart, trailing edges variable (depending on disc). Used in this manner, rising edge is the ONLY option. I'm running this sensor at 12v with a pull-up resistor. In retrospect, I'm reasonably confident that it will work just as well on 5 volts (more chance of signal noise, though). Is there one wider pulse that indicates TDC on piston 1 during the compression stroke? No. Two quick pulses, hence the additional drilled hole. See above picture (red arrow). Wolf looks for the sync pulse to fall within a specified 'window'. It ignores anything outside of that window (as a sync.). How many pulses follow before the next TDC pulse? One pulse per cylinder, plus one sync pulse. Total... 7. You can fire two igniters with one ignition output of the wolf. You can also do the same with MS. Yes, but that prevents you from individually timing independent cylinders. V500 allows complex timing and fueling on a cylinder-per-cylinder basis. What size injectors are you using 19lb., 15 deg. Ford's and how is the idle quality? Quite good! The V4.0 units improved this greatly. Yup, .003ms resolution is some of the best in the business. V500 carries on this tradition (this particular system is V4+, BTW). We've gotten an E30 BMW M3 with 750cc p&h injectors to idle better than OE. I have not seen a V500 unit, and was wondering how it faired. V500, is an ENORMOUS step up in power. And frankly, both of these pages combined barley whisper the advancements made to V500... V500 Specs.... http://www.wolfems.com/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,25/Itemid,48/mode,view/ V500 Highlight sheet.... http://wolfems.cart.net.au/details/635751.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted March 8, 2007 Author Administrators Share Posted March 8, 2007 So are you saying I can run distributorless ignition with a modified/capped off dizzy?? In a nut shell, yes. Obviously it requires an EMS that's suitable. I'm not even going to pretend to guess at all of them that do or do not support this type of trigger. Hmm... but isn't one of the problems is play in the dizzy drive shaft that can cause bad timing/signal in the first place?? For what its worth, I did some preliminary testing a while back. I ran magnetic sensors on both the crank and distributor drive. Long story short, I found that most of the scatter associated with a common distributor was in the 'plate'... the mechanisms for mechanical and vacuum advance were significant contributors. A dual channel O' scope, on both mag. sensors, minus the advance mechanisms, showed an average of plus/minus 1 deg. scatter. Not F1 territory, but certainly satisfactory for most of us earthbound folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted March 8, 2007 Author Administrators Share Posted March 8, 2007 This is great information. So will you be making anymore of those nice distrubutor caps? There is a possibility that I may. I'm currently booked solid for the next 4-5 months. After which, I would consider building a few. However, its child's play, even for a newly employed apprentice machinist. If you're looking to get one made, just take you distributor to a couple shops an ask what they'd charge. ThisNow because some of the coils have ignitors as part of the coil do you need drivers such as the VB921 from the MS system to drive the coils? There are a number of ways to address this... In post #7,8 and 9, Pete and I glossed over this. These particular coils have 'dumb' ignitors built in. Nothing else is needed. However, if there is a coil that tickles your fancy, that has no ignitor, there are options. I sell 2,3 and 4 channel, Bosch type ignitors that have proven to work well. These will drive most common coils. While its not been tested (to my knowledge), I suspect a bank of VB921's would also work. I also sell J&S Safeguard. For use with/or without ignitors. The Safeguard interfaces with Wolf seamlessly. This unit will independently listen to and retard individual cylinders on an as-needed basis, resulting in a quasi-custom timing map for each cylinder. Using a single knock sensor with a 'smart' processor, it can hold EACH cylinder just below its knock threshold, on the fly. http://www.jandssafeguard.com/ http://www.jandssafeguard.com/safeguard.html Here's a nice graph to drool over... peak power is only slightly improved but the average power gain is impressive... This graph demonstrates the advantage's using high octane fuels, but it also implies that a bump in compression ratio, on pump gas, will have a similar effect. The Z currently in the shop is receiving a J&S transplant... we'll see how a high compression L6 responds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 In post #7,8 and 9, Pete and I glossed over this. These particular coils have 'dumb' ignitors built in. Nothing else is needed. However, if there is a coil that tickles your fancy, that has no ignitor, there are options. I sell 2,3 and 4 channel, Bosch type ignitors that have proven to work well. These will drive most common coils. While its not been tested (to my knowledge), I suspect a bank of VB921's would also work. I've use the Nology three channel coil drivers in the past, and they work great with a wide variety of coils. I've used them to drive stock, and MSD coils with spark energy to spare. A mild L6 with 19lb injectors will idle well, even with a V3.0 unit (and MS for that matter). 19lbs may not be enough for that motor, but o-ring injectors are so easy to find and swap. I built essentially the same motor, and it made 165WHP at 95% duty cycle with the stock 280Z injectors. You may squeak a bit more power out of those injectors in sequential mode vs. batch. Yup, .003ms resolution is some of the best in the business. V500 carries on this tradition (this particular system is V4+, BTW). We've gotten an E30 BMW M3 with 750cc p&h injectors to idle better than OE. That's impressive that an M3 can still have a decent idle with 750cc/min injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwdawg2 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Rontyler i have a question for you or anyone who may know? i just started a thread on this subject so if we can figure it out here i will just post a link i was just wondering if you got rid of all the junk and the passenger side fender (carbon canister, vacuum pump, cruise control) or if you placed it somewhere else? that's all and if you did delete these items did you have to make up for them by installing something else? thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trippintl0 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 is this a return-less fuel system? i only see one hose going to it, unless i'm not looking in the right spot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSM Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Out of curiousity what kind of money is tied up in the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadytrixta1 Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Man that thing is insanely clean! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted March 17, 2007 Author Administrators Share Posted March 17, 2007 i was just wondering if you got rid of all the junk and the passenger side fender (carbon canister, vacuum pump, cruise control) The carbon canister was relocated to inner right front fender well. To my knowledge, 280zx's never came with a smog pump. Cruise control was deleted. is this a return-less fuel system? Affirmative. Out of curiousity what kind of money is tied up in the car? One MEEEEEELLLLIIIIIOON Dollars! But seriously, I wouldn't be at liberty to say even if I did know the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 For what its worth, I did some preliminary testing a while back. I ran magnetic sensors on both the crank and distributor drive. Long story short, I found that most of the scatter associated with a common distributor was in the 'plate'... the mechanisms for mechanical and vacuum advance were significant contributors. A dual channel O' scope, on both mag. sensors, minus the advance mechanisms, showed an average of plus/minus 1 deg. scatter. Not F1 territory, but certainly satisfactory for most of us earthbound folk. The only real problem with the 82/83CAS drive setup is the possibility that the drive gear on the spindle can SLIP, changing timing radically. This can happen during vigorous track activities, a hard cut / reengage on the rev limiter, or something that throws a reverse pulse into the drive while at higher rpms while pumping oil hard... People say it's not an Issue, but it DOES happen. I have had my drive gear pinned with a 3mm dowel. When JeffP was running his car on the Dynapack at Jim Wolf, the timing spun almost a full 180 degrees! We retimed it, ran it again up to the point where the engine started bucking from running lean, and then rechecked the timing and it was AGAIN off by 7 degrees. Once they slip, they are prone to do it again. So a word to the wise, if you want BULLETPROOF, pin that damnable gear so it CAN'T slip! There is no appreciable torque to drive the dissy anyway, I suspect it's an inertial thing with the pump being driven. The Nissan Tech that stopped by mentioned that spinning dizzy drive gears, or shattered crank drive gearing was fairly common 'in the old days'--so suspect this little malady is an oft-forgotten or overlooked reason for 'timing drift' in cars. Just and FYI so it doesn't come up and people are scratching their heads. Otherwise, it's a VERY easy way to get the Crankfire/Cam Sensor setup for full sequential. Nice idea, I'm going to check with JeffP and see if that scenario is compatible with Lance's Box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted March 18, 2007 Author Administrators Share Posted March 18, 2007 I have had my drive gear pinned with a 3mm dowel. Great advice Tony. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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