HB280ZT Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Hi All, I am running into front sway bar bind problem. Information first: custom adjustable lower control arms. custom adjustable T/C rod. coil overs and DP camber biscuits currently have a 28mm front sway bar My current setup causes the end link to bind out and forward because of camber (.7 neg) and caster (3.5 degrees) adjustments. So I was thinking about a front sway bar like the stock cars use: http://www.stockcarproducts.com/susp21.htm Along with the sway bar arms. http://www.stockcarproducts.com/susp22.htm Would have to have the arms bent out to clear the tires but this would also make it so that I could adjsut where the arm positions over the lower control arm hole. So am I looking at this wrong or should I try something else? Any .02 is appreciated! Also for the record I did a search and spent about 2 hours reading through many, many posts. HB280ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Yup, lots of 240Z racers run those types of from ARBs. Some even run them through the front frame rails to get a better angle on the arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 There are some excellent pics of Brad Frisselle's GTU car on this page: http://zlalomz.googlepages.com/frissellerestorationbycanepadesign Good pics of that kind of bar through the frame rail in front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 There are some excellent pics of Brad Frisselle's GTU car on this page: http://zlalomz.googlepages.com/frissellerestorationbycanepadesign Good pics of that kind of bar through the frame rail in front. Great site Jon. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted March 22, 2007 Administrators Share Posted March 22, 2007 There are some excellent pics of Brad Frisselle's GTU car on this page: http://zlalomz.googlepages.com/frissellerestorationbycanepadesign Good pics of that kind of bar through the frame rail in front. I concur with John K, AWESOME Race Z site for sure.. Thank you. Sorry for thread jacking, but on that wonderful page, (great concept with the sway bar through the frame etc), I found a link on that page with pics of Cary, (aka Tube80Z) and Morgan, in their monster flared F-prepared cars running around the Medford track.. … Too cool… http://zlalomz.googlepages.com/autoximsastyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 The guy who owns that site is Steve Parmley. He is "zlalomz" here. He's a good guy and a regular contributor. You guys should be thanking him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted March 22, 2007 Administrators Share Posted March 22, 2007 The guy who owns that site is Steve Parmley. He is "zlalomz" here. He's a good guy and a regular contributor. You guys should be thanking him. I agree... Thank you Steve. Thank you very much for your contributions to the Hybrid Z community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB280ZT Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Great pictures!! Does any of the 240Z people have any specs and/or a list of parts need to do a swaybar mod like this. I know I can not do the through frame swaybar but anything is better then the setup I currently have. I am looking at doing the front and rear with the rear moving to behind the diff. Thanks for your help. HB280ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlalomz Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Awe shucks guys. I just collected photos and asked permission from great photographers like RacerX, tube80Z here on Hybrid and others. The idea came about when I picked up an IMSA flared 280Z shell. The owner didn't know what the flares were so I tried to find photos on the internet and no collections could be found. I was old enough to have been to the Camel GT IMSA races and was shocked at how little info there was about the GT/U class cars. Too bad digital cameras weren't around then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I've looked hard at doing this as well (not through the frame rails though). I talked to their machinist and he said he would build a custom length shorter than there "canned" size for an additional $25. The most challenging parts are the arms. My intention was to modify them (lighten them up), and then link them to the strut tubes instead of to the control arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlalomz Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Here are some pics of member Drivesideways vintage racer with those style bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Here are some pics of member Drivesideways vintage racer with those style bars. This rear bar is a very smart implementation in my opinion. I was thinking about doing something very similar myself, building off of the fuel cell frame just like that. They say some of those ends are "bendable aluminum". The idea of that kinda makes my eyes cross a bit. Isn't pretty much any aluminum bendable, and if its not hardened, would you need to bend them then heat treat them to make them "non-bendable"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB280ZT Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 zlalomz, Thanks for the new pictures they help alot. I also like the way they used the front part of the fuel cell mount to brace the sway bar. However for us that do not have a fuel cell we would have to do something different. So now I just need to figure out which bar to get, 1" or 1 1/4", solid or hollow? Then which steel arm to get and bend it to the correct shape. Also will have to figure out a better way to mount the sway bar link to the lower control arm. Do you have to have the sway bar arm parallel to the gound or can you change it so that the arm is pointing up at say 30 degrees? That way I could use a longer end link. Questions and more questions. It is like opening Pandora's box, where will it stop! Thanks again. HB280ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlalomz Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Did you see these in the photo album recently by frank280ZX? The bar is mounted high in aluminum blocks. I like how they tied the bar into the emergency brake mount holes . It looks like the diff has been raised, the roll center changed like you did Terry and the triangulation similar to what Drivesidways did is very clever for the control arm rear mount. Also the sub frame is notched like you did Jon for the front of the arm to clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Do you have to have the sway bar arm parallel to the gound or can you change it so that the arm is pointing up at say 30 degrees? That way I could use a longer end link. You could, but it would be less than desirable. First of all the control arms will be pulled/pushed fore and aft when the bar is in use. Also, this arrangement will cause unequal force on the body depending on how much the bar will twist (it would work much like the Ackerman principle, but on the body attachment points instead (one side's attachment point will experience a "push" of unequal force - opposite, but not equal - than the other side's "pull"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB280ZT Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 That rear setup looks great. I like the extra support from the diff rear mount to the link bracing. Not really sure what it does but it looks good. Also the drop bracket on the LCA is interesting, what does it really do? Now the million dollar question is where did you get the rear sway bar? Also can you cut and weld metal to a sway bar without damaging it?? Because there are bars out there that could work but the ends are not right for what I need to do. I like the ends that are flat and have holes in them so that a heim joint can be used. Did you use larger bolts on the lower sway bar mount? I know the stock piece uses 6mm X 1.00mm bolts and I am sure they will not support the weight or stress put on that part. So the arms need to be parallel to the gound to work correctly? Thanks. Keep the good information coming. HB280ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I like the extra support from the diff rear mount to the link bracing. Not really sure what it does but it looks good. Also the drop bracket on the LCA is interesting, what does it really do? My guess is that the extra support is to provide lateral support to the rear suspension uprights at the control arm pickups. The drop bracket is, again a supposition, to raise the roll center on the rear suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 The drop bracket is, again a supposition, to raise the roll center on the rear suspension. There was a guy on classiczcars.com who was making a really funky toe adjuster that went on right in that spot. I wonder if that's what it is. It had a lot of machined pieces and looked pretty elaborate and hard to build but the guy obviously had a lot of time and effort in it and it looked well made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlalomz Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Frank280ZX's pictures I just learned are of the Bob Sharp GT2 Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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