Narrow or Wideband for N/A?

[Zmanco]

I understand why a wideband O2 sensor makes sense for a turbo motor, but for N/A, is there any benefit, besides ease of trouble shooting? I mean, if the objective is to run at stoich, then a narrow band should be sufficient, right?

 

I guess I could see it helpful when running WOT and the MS is running open loop if the datalogs would show the actual A/F values.

 

I'm getting ready to buy my MS hardware and already have a narrowband sensor installed that I used for tuning my carbs. I would rather not spend the extra $$$ (about 200) if it doesn't buy me something significant.

 

Thoughts?

 

PS. Are the stock Nissan TURBO injectors considered low or high impedance?

[JMortensen]

If you're running on the ragged edge and need to know EXACTLY what the a/f ratios are, get the wideband. If not, the narrowband will get you in the ballpark.

[z-ya]

Spend the $200 on dyno time where they have a wide band. Once tuned, and running right, the narrow band is good enough to tell you if you if something is going wrong later on down the road.

[madkaw]

Pete,

I have never done any dyno time but I was thinking if I had bungs welded in my duals then I could have someone else install their wide band to help me tune my N/A 2.4? Is that what they would do if I had my engine dyno tuned? I could get the precision tune without all the cost of the equipment. Or does the shop expect you to have a sensor installed and they hook their equipment to it?

[Zmanco]

If I did go with a WB sensor, would the value be in tuning at WOT when the MS is open loop? Just want to be sure I understand how FI works.

 

Also, what about the impedance of the Turbo injectors? Low or high?

Thanks.

[z-ya]

Pete,

I have never done any dyno time but I was thinking if I had bungs welded in my duals then I could have someone else install their wide band to help me tune my N/A 2.4? Is that what they would do if I had my engine dyno tuned? I could get the precision tune without all the cost of the equipment. Or does the shop expect you to have a sensor installed and they hook their equipment to it?

 

The dyno shop will want to put their sensor in your bung Seriously though, they will need to get at it, so make sure it is accessible. I had mine low down on the header, and it was a real pain to take my narrow band out, and put the dyno's wide band in. To make it easier, I added a bung to the end plate on the Supertrapp muffler. The dyno owner I work with (sponsors my race car with free dyno time) loves me now 8^).

 

If you have never seen a car on a dyno, it's pretty cool. It basically allows you to put a full load on the engine while you are standing next it. My supercharged car does 120MPH in 4th gear on the dyno. So you can imagine the sound a car makes going 120MPH while you are standing next to it. You can immediately see where you are running rich or lean.

[z-ya]

If I did go with a WB sensor, would the value be in tuning at WOT when the MS is open loop? Just want to be sure I understand how FI works.

 

Also, what about the impedance of the Turbo injectors? Low or high?

Thanks.

 

 

You can run the MS in open loop all the time. In fact, for tuning, this is how you should run it. The last thing you want is the MS making adjustments in closed loop mode when you are tuning. Closed loop is usually only active under 3000RPM for cruising economy and emissions.

 

NA and turbo injectors are low impedance (2.6 Ohms or so).

[madkaw]

i thought it needed to be as close to the header as possible?

[z-ya]

For a single wire narrow band sensor, yes. This is because the sensor is heated by the exhaust gases. In the case of a wideband, it is heated electrically. I sill have my one wire narrow band in the header.

[madkaw]

Check out my post in the exhaust section. Where do you think would be the best place for the bungs on my set-up? I'm not clear on how they hook up there equipment to the sensor.

[mario_82_ZXT]

For a single wire narrow band sensor, yes. This is because the sensor is heated by the exhaust gases. In the case of a wideband, it is heated electrically. I sill have my one wire narrow band in the header.

 

You can always get a wired 3 wire sensor. Same as a one wire but heated. You can place it anywhere before a cat I've heard...

 

Considering new O2s are like $75, I'd rather save my money and get a wideband to tune multiples cars with.

Mario

[madkaw]

So I guess i am still wondering where the best place to weld in my bung for someone to use a wide band set-up to help me tune my car. It will be easy while I am building the exhaust right now and I want to put it in the most convient place.

[z-ya]

If the WB will only be used for tuning, put it in a place you can get at easily. For the one wire narrow band sensor, put it close to the exhaust manifold or in the header collector. Most weld in bungs come with a plug, so you can plug the bung for the WB sensor.

[Zmanco]

I read most of the MS docs last night, and I think I better understand how a wideband sensor might help. I see 2 main benefits:

 

1. under light throttle cruising conditions, you can more easily tune (using autotune) to an AFR other than 14.7. It appears this can be done with a NB as well, but not easily.

 

2. When tuning for power, the WB will report the actual AFR, not just if it is lean or rich. Given the extra adjustability of FI (vs. Carbs), I can see this being very helpful.

 

Given I will have to replace my 1 wire NB anyway (it's mounted too far away from the engine to stay warm at idle), I think I'm going to spend the extra and go with the WB. I suspect I'll get the $150 back in reduced tuning time and maybe better fuel economy when cruising. At least, that's how I'm going to rationalize it

 

So having said all that, what do you all think of the Innovative unit below:

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/innovate-digital-wideband-controller-with-sensor-p-41.html

At $200 it appears to be the least expensive WB I've found. Does it "bolt right up" to the MS I v3.0 ? The manual suggests it does, but I'd feel better confirming it here first.

 

Also, where did you mount the controller? Firewall? Or in the cabin?

[Evan Purple240zt]

Just buy the wideband, you won't regret it. I had a four wire greddy narrowband in my car, and still ended up getting a wideband. I should have bought the w/b in the first place.

 

Evan

[proxlamus©]

i love my wideband =)

 

i can tune tune tune for different uses.

 

track days with race fuel, street use etc =)

[andy mason]

ok my dumb *** does not no if my 7/76 is supposed to have an o2 sensor from the factory. What I do know is that it does not have one now, I would like to know if the ecm/ecu or whatever has the input for the o2 sensor?

[bubbleguinea]

no- 76 ECUs dont have that input...and much less a wideband input.

 

you'll have to buy a sensor, and a guage as a kit from somewhere....

[andy mason]

thank you for that. I bought a gauge yesterday I work at a used engine supply shop. As a machinist not a tuner or mechanic but do my own stuff.

 

I put a modified 7mge fuel rail on with Mitsubishi 4g63 fuel injectors that are 243cc versus the ones on it from the factor that are 222 or so. Had them flowed at a place called injectedtec in Utah . I inted on putting the gauge in the car so I know what kind of a/r Reading I am running do I just connect the o2 to the gauge or will I need more the car runs rich to my nose but runs veare good from 4100rpm/6600rpm