Share your AFR, Timing and VE charts

[MONZTER]

Hey, I am sure some of you may not want to share this info, but some of you might find this info helpful to others. Want to share some of your Standalone settings? Me first:

 

Please remember, everybody's car is different, and one persons settings may kill someone else's engine, Please view with care

 

PS I would love to see someone's Turbo Setup and compare it to my NA Setup

 

Jeff

 

L-24+1 NA

10.75: compression

MSA Satge 3 cam

Electamotive Tec 3

 

Target AFR

 

Timing Curve

 

VE

[Careless]

how about including some dyno/engine specifications information =)

 

that would make this quite comprehensive

[MONZTER]

how about including some dyno/engine specifications information =)

 

that would make this quite comprehensive

 

Good Idea. Here is the Dyno chart from the above setup

 

 

The headwork on my car is the reason for the timing like it is. I have tried advancing it further with 100 octane and felt no difference. here is a picture of the chambers

 

[jgkurz]

Hey, I am sure some of you may not want to share this info, but some of you might find this info helpful to others. Want to share some of your Standalone settings? Me first:

 

Please remember, everybody's car is different, and one persons settings may kill someone else's engine, Please view with care

 

PS I would love to see someone's Turbo Setup and compare it to my NA Setup

 

 

 

Jeff, Here's my Tec3 settings and dyno sheet from last summer. The car is on jackstands right now undergoing exhaust and wastegate changes. I had some major flow restrictions with my previous setup. I'm confident I a can free up some significant HP with the new exhaust and downpipe design. If you look at the dyno sheet you can see that my boost bleeds off as RPM rises. My HP peaks at about 4300RPM then stays flat to about 5600RPM. I believe this is all caused by too much back pressure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MONZTER]

Hi John,

Thanks for the post, pretty cool to see your timing chart for the turbo vs the NA car. Would you mind posting your target AFR chart as well? I am finishing my conversion to turbo and would like to see what you have done.

Thanks for sharing all your hard work, I wish more people would contribute to this post as this would really help settle the nerves of people starting off there new project.

I wonder if Timz would be interested in sharing his info on his awesome build, I believe he also uses an electromotive system. Even the MS guys could get valuable info from looking at this info and posting there findings.

Best Regards

Jeff

[jgkurz]

AFR table added to my post.

[rags]

Bringing this post back to life, how are you guy's getting idle AFR's in the 14's?? If I go any leaner than 13.8 it's starts doing the lean buck and surge. Since my car is a turbo car I'm more interested in John's setup. My combination is close as I'm using the same injectors, turbo specs, and displacement (although I'm using a diesel crank) but I do have a higher static compression ratio at 8.5-1.

[cygnusx1]

My car needs to idle at 12.8 or richer. L28ET stock long block '83. It runs in it's happy range in the 13 - 13.5 range.

[rags]

John,

 

What are you using for a min inj time for the 550cc'ers? What is your TOG?

[jgkurz]

Bringing this post back to life, how are you guy's getting idle AFR's in the 14's?? If I go any leaner than 13.8 it's starts doing the lean buck and surge. Since my car is a turbo car I'm more interested in John's setup. My combination is close as I'm using the same injectors, turbo specs, and displacement (although I'm using a diesel crank) but I do have a higher static compression ratio at 8.5-1.

 

I am also using the LD28 diesel crank. My car will idle very smooth at 13.5 and reasonably smooth at 14.5 which is where I keep it set. I had to bring down the initial timing to 15 BTDC and keep the VE table fairly flat to get the smooth idle near Stoich. My O2 is also set so it's not making huge adjustments. You might try to turn off closed loop at idle until tuning is ideal. I still have lots of tuning to do but for the most part it runs well. Also, the Tec3 (not sure about the Tec2) has a TPS/MAP blend for large cams. I don't recommend you use this unless you have to.

 

 

John,

 

What are you using for a min inj time for the 550cc'ers? What is your TOG?

 

I updated post #4 above with my Tec3 setup parameters.

[datman]

I have 650cc injectors running 2 squirts alternating. Idles at 14.5:! wih no problems. Timing at idle around 15 deg. 35kpa. inj opening time 1ms pwm current limit 30%, pwm time threshold. 1ms. injector pwm period 50u sec.

required fuel 7.1

 

Fuel pressure 2.5bar at 100kpa

[rags]

Well I found something interesting while tuning tonight. I was having a problem where I would go very lean as soon as I went past 1lb of boost. What I fouund was the kpa readings never went past 100. This started happening when I went from a 2 bar to a 3 bar map sensor. I put the 2 bar back in and things now work as they should. What I did when using the 3 bar was to use map points up to 240kpa as that's the limit that the engine would see. Is this the correct way to do this? I see from both screenshots above that the map points used were all the way up to the 312kpa that a 3 bar map can read so I'm assuming my way was not correct.

 

Joe

[jgkurz]

I have 650cc injectors running 2 squirts alternating. Idles at 14.5:! wih no problems. Timing at idle around 15 deg. 35kpa. inj opening time 1ms pwm current limit 30%, pwm time threshold. 1ms. injector pwm period 50u sec.

required fuel 7.1

 

Fuel pressure 2.5bar at 100kpa

 

datman, what do you mean by "2 squirts alternating" Do you have two MegaSquirt systems and twelve injectors?

[MONZTER]

I don't know if this the correct way to start tuning, but I am self taught and this works for me.

1.) I set my VE Table to Zero and then put in what UAP and POT Wintec recommends based on the tuning wizard

2.) I set my Correction factor to something stupid like 50% (I am using a wideband connected tot the Tec unit)

3.) I start the car and immediately go to the VE table correction and start tweaking the table in the appropriate cell to get it to idle until warmed up

4.) after I get it warmed up I continue to tweak the VE table until it is idling where I want it to be ( for me 14.64)

5.) Next shut the car down and switch the VE table over to the Fuel Table (Corrected Injector Pulsewidth (ms)

6.) I look and write the numbers (Offset FPW) in the MAP and RPM zone I was idling in, and then look and write down the numbers (Offset FPW) where I believe my max RPM and MAP will be.

7.) I go back to the VE table and re-zero out the entire table

8.) I once again go back to the fuel table and look at the changed numbers

9.) I now adjust my UAP and POT settings on the top of the page up and down until I get the cells back to the numbers I wrote down before I re-zeroed my VE table

10.) I re-start the car and it idles pretty good with little correction

11.) I do some wide open pulls in third gear and once again tweak the VE table until it is where I want it running

12.) shut down the car and repeat steps 5 through 9 focusing this time on my max RPM and MAP cells

13.) re-start the car and it is really close on the idle and WOT

14.) Turn the correction factor way down to like 10 and get my accell and other enrichment parameters configured

15.) Go for a drive with the autotune on and let it dial in the VE table

16.) change the VE table to a graph and smooth it out

17.) Car runs pretty darn good

Again this is my method, and I have no idea if it is correct or way harder than it should be, It just works for me. I think it would be great to hear anyone else's methods

Jeff

[datman]

Yes I'm using MSII. Control is set to speed density, injections per engine cycle 2. Injector staging alternating.. 4 stroke, 6 cylinders, port injection, 6 injectors, even fire.

 

2 Megasquirts ? huh? no just the one ...I only have one engine fitted

 

At my fuel pressure my injectors work out at 51.53 lb/hr, very close to the set you have

[rags]

Jeff,

 

That's basically the same way I'm doing it wit one exception that probably makes my way harder. I turn correction completely off from the start and don't turn it back on until I feel I'm finished.

 

Anyone have comments on only using map points up to the max boost an engine will see?

 

Joe

[jgkurz]

2 Megasquirts ? huh? no just the one ...I only have one engine fitted

 

Don't laugh... it's been done. Granted it's probably more old school when large injector sizes were not available.

[MONZTER]

Hey Tec 3 people. I never have got my rev limiter to be "soft" It seem to come on very aggressive and really jerk the car hard when it hits. I have it set to 8000, so I am worried about the sudden hit shaking the drive train to bits. For tunng, I have set the rev limit to 3000 to try and get a soft limit while street driving, but have had no luck. It seems like the different setting don't do too much.

 

Do any of you guys have a good set-up you would like to share the parameters with me and the group.

 

Thanks Jeff

[jgkurz]

Hey Tec 3 people. I never have got my rev limiter to be "soft" It seem to come on very aggressive and really jerk the car hard when it hits. I have it set to 8000, so I am worried about the sudden hit shaking the drive train to bits. For tunng, I have set the rev limit to 3000 to try and get a soft limit while street driving, but have had no luck. It seems like the different setting don't do too much.

 

Do any of you guys have a good set-up you would like to share the parameters with me and the group.

 

Thanks Jeff

 

I set my rev limit at 7K with SoftRev and "No Fuel Cut". My max shift RPM is about 6500RPM so I've never hit my rev limiter. When I get a chance I'll drop it down to 3K and report back the results.

 

BTW, I never cut fuel on the rev limiter as this may cause just enough of a lean condition to damage a turbocharged engine.

[MONZTER]

Thanks for the help.

 

Good point about the fuel cut on a turbo engine

 

Jeff