240hoke Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Alright well I finally got a break form school and got some work done on the Z. Got the motor mounts finished today and the vq is finally sitting in the engine bay. Ive got a website ill be putting more information up on so check it out... im detailing the entire swap there: www.vq240z.com Its certainly tight but over all its working out very very well Ive had to do no modifications to the engine and I am using the factory mounting isolators, headers and heat shield. The stock steering shaft should work out without mods as well. Anyway here are the pictures (I apoligize my engine bay looks nasty, gonna repaint later): Test fitting... All finsihed, mounts are made from .125" plate and 4"x.125"W tube.... Mounts bolted to frame rails... Drivers side view.... Passenger side.... Drivers side with stock exhaust manifold... With heat shiedl.... Plenty of room for some twin front mount turbos on down the road As far back as she will go with the stock intake manifold... Gotta give some credit to my little helper too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Austin, Very good progress man! Pretty good welds too! Just keep working on different TIG weave patterns to find one you like. Personally I like the zig-zag and crescent weave patterns. Crescent is the easiest to keep a nice consistant TIG weld for me. Keep us updated and I'll be watching as you progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 Thanks! I really just need to slow down... I got to fast and get sloppy, this was my first good tig project so I'm learning a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Don't worry about it. You will get it after enough practice. I have over 350 hours between welding, part setup, and cleaning just for TIG welding. Probably only 30 hours of actual weld time in all that. Just find your groove that works best for you and run with it. It just takes practice!! and a LOT OF IT! My BEST WELD EVER was made half lying on the floor welding on a steel "T" joint that was 36 inches from the floor in the overhead position. Go figure that out. I still have it around here somewhere rusting. Good luck in your project! If you haven't seen it Miller welding has an awesome set of resources: TIG amperage calculator Tips for TIG welding and what tungsten to use They also have some more basics stuff elsewhere. Hope that helps you in your quest for the 99% perfect weld! I also have my 8 pound welding textbook around here somewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Looks good.....does the motor sit high up or is it just the angles of the pics? The welds do look very neat.....Looking forward to some pics from under the car when you get the tranny in also.....keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete84 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 What engine management are you planning on using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 Looks good.....does the motor sit high up or is it just the angles of the pics?The welds do look very neat.....Looking forward to some pics from under the car when you get the tranny in also.....keep up the good work! The engine is as low as I would want to put it. The oil pan will be slightly lower then the front crossmember. The intake manifold makes it look pretty tall. The transmission is in the car now, its a very tight fit, I had to remove the stock mounts completely. I have yet to make the tranmission crossmember though, its just sitting on a jack stand. That however should be pretty simple. What engine management are you planning on using? I'm Trying to get the stock stuff up and running, it will be a pain but id like to get it done especially for others that want to go this route. It will require the entire dash harness to get the security harness and electronic gas pedal etc. However there are lots of good piggyback system out there for the 350z such as UTEC. If that doesnt work out then prolly AEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jknc90 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Wow, looks great Austin. It makes me want to do something with the VQ that I've got sitting around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete84 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 That would be awesome if you could work out the stock ECM. And write up a bit on how-to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Without the two mounts being connected by a crossmember, don't the mounts see way more stress than if they were somehow linked? I'm worried about the mounts twisting the frame rails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyZ Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Without the two mounts being connected by a crossmember, don't the mounts see way more stress than if they were somehow linked? I'm worried about the mounts twisting the frame rails. Ditto. I've been thinking about how I'm going to do my mounts for the 4G63 and started thinking I'd do mine like yours until I saw the pictures. Now I'm not so sure. I may stick to a cradle of some sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 A cradle would be way overkill but it would definitly help. These mounts ARE STOUT I could pick the car up by them. But how strong your mounts are is really gonna depend on your design and how they are mounted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 A cradle would be way overkill but it would definitly help. These mounts ARE STOUT I could pick the car up by them. But how strong your mounts are is really gonna depend on your design and how they are mounted. We have learned that the frame rails aren't the strongest point on Z cars from racers using thick anti-swaybars on non-reinforced frame rails. With the stock crossmember the torque of the engine is merely pushing up or pulling down on either frame rail. With a non-tied together design such as yours, when the engine torques over, each engine mount will not only pull up or down on the frame rail, but at the same time twist it. Here's a quick sketch to show what I'm talking about showing the reaction forces and moments at the rails: Your mounts certainly look like they will hold the power of the stock VQ, but eventually with the mounts rotating the frame rails back and forth you will probably see stress cracks forming near the mounting points. (assuming no reinforcement at the rails). my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 hate'chu looks so nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJ 280z Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 We have learned that the frame rails aren't the strongest point on Z cars from racers using thick anti-swaybars on non-reinforced frame rails. With the stock crossmember the torque of the engine is merely pushing up or pulling down on either frame rail. With a non-tied together design such as yours, when the engine torques over, each engine mount will not only pull up or down on the frame rail, but at the same time twist it. Here's a quick sketch to show what I'm talking about showing the reaction forces and moments at the rails: Your mounts certainly look like they will hold the power of the stock VQ, but eventually with the mounts rotating the frame rails back and forth you will probably see stress cracks forming near the mounting points. (assuming no reinforcement at the rails). my .02 hey olie, you make a great point regarding the stresses and the frame rails. i have a similar style of mount on my 280z, that i made to get my FJ20 in there, however, the difference between mine and 240hoke's is that i have a wider footprint on the framerails, ie...the part that is welded to the frame rail on my Z is maybe 10-11" long, while 240hoke's looks like its 4" at the most. the smaller the area is welded to the frame rail, the more stress it will see 4" of stress vs. 10" of stress. i want to look at my engine mounts again, make sure they are all good. but 240hoke, did you drill some real long holes through the frame rail to mount those brackets for the engine mounts? i know that vildini does something similar as far as welding thier cradle to the frame rails, thats where i got the idea for mine. its only a matter of time before 240hoke finds out if those brackets will hold or not. looking great by the way, and i can't BELIEVE you got it sitting in there allready, i swear i saw the thread where you got that motor just days ago..... keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 240Hoke, If you search through the older posts in the Ford V8 section of the site you'll see threads that discuss the same issue. Alsil fabbed up mounts for a 302 that were connected to the frame rails similar to yours and after running it that way for a relatively short time found the rails were twisting. He redesigned his mounts into a crossmember that prevents the twisting forces on the frame rails. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 Thanks for the tip wheelman Ill take a look. I had originally planned to hook everythign together but I really didnt see the point, however my rails are much stronger then stock as I replaced everything when I restored the car the first go around. My T/C boxes are also much much stonger. Due to the mounts relatively close location to to t/c boxes the moment from the engine mounts will cause a lot less stain. In addition to drilling the holes though I will be welding tubing through the rail to keep it from collapsing or wallowing out the holes. Time will tell though, I may add a cross member in the future, the stock oil pan has an indention in the middle for the 350z cross member which would work well in allowing the mounts to be connected. Thanks for the input guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 hey olie, you make a great point regarding the stresses and the frame rails. i have a similar style of mount on my 280z, that i made to get my FJ20 in there, however, the difference between mine and 240hoke's is that i have a wider footprint on the framerails, ie...the part that is welded to the frame rail on my Z is maybe 10-11" long, while 240hoke's looks like its 4" at the most. the smaller the area is welded to the frame rail, the more stress it will see 4" of stress vs. 10" of stress. i want to look at my engine mounts again, make sure they are all good. but making it wider would spread the load out a bit more, but it would still suffer from torsional movement because they can twist out of alignment in reference to one another because they're not tied together. This was also discussed in a thread about breaking radiators because of the weak front end and rad support. It twists enough with the stock cross member to break a rad, i could only hope that without it, the radiator won't split completely in half. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_82_ZXT Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Jeez you work fast! Looks awesome! Mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 FJ20 Careless hit the nail on the nail the footprint wont make a lick of difference when dealing with moments. However in probably mine and your defense: If you look at where my mounts are place you will notice they are directly in front of the T/C box and about an inch behind the stock crossmember location (not in the pictures). Both these locations can be considered fixed IMO because the frame rail is not going to flex at either point. So if you look it at that way these mounts are applying a momemt to the center of a beam, fixed at both ends, that is maybe 5" long..... there isn't going to be much flex in that. In addition it have to flew two of them equally. Anyway.... Next up is the tranny crossmember and new shifter bracket, the shifter is going to have to be shortened much like the Z32 transmission shifter. I am also going to be installing a subaru powersteering rack. Once all the hardware is complete the electronics begin its gonna be a fun heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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