ZR8ED Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Like the title says. How about using aero mods to increase lift on a vehicle. Now obviously not for a sports car or race car or similar use vehicle, but how about that type of aero on a vehicle such as a strict commuter car or how about a transport truck? Why? To reduce the weight of the vehicle transfering through the suspension thus reducing drag? ie a loaded transport truck weighs lets say 10000 lbs per axle. What if under the trailer (there is usually lots of open air under a standard box trailer) there was an adjustable wing of sorts that could be angled to increase lift to help reduce the load placed on the road surface. You would not want too much lift, but maybe enough to lighten the load a bit to help with fuel economy. Lightening the load by 10% would not cause the vehicle to loose so much traction that it may jacknife or loose control. This same idea for a LOW SPEED small commuter car. Again not trying to approach lift off, but just enough lift to lighten the load. I wonder the effects? would it work? Would it help? This was just a thought that popped in my head today when I saw a large transport truck with an impressive looking aero package on the truck AND box trailer. I recall an article about the Kenworth Aerodyne series trucks. I wanted to post this before I forgot about the idea, or dismissed it as crazy before I even had a chance to honestly consider it. Anyways, maybe some lift could be a good thing for specific uses with a vehicle. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombarace14 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 My thoughts on this would be, the extra drag caused by the lift would counter act the benifit of lighter load weight. Most cars now and some newer trucks have adopted better areo for fuel eco. Also the rolling resistance in modern tires has greatly improved over the last few years as well. I could be wrong tho, I too once thought of your concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 It would seem to me that the drag caused by the aero package in question would outweigh the beneficial drag lost in rolling resistance. If you start with these two equations: Fr=FW and Fd=(1/2)*Cd*A*P*V^2 where Fr=drag due to rolling resistance F=coefficient of drag at the wheels W=Mass of vehicle Fd=Force due to aerodynamic drag Cd=coefficient of aerodynamic drag A= frontal area P= air volume density V=Velocity in question (highway speeds) Then get power required by Fd*V and Fr*V and compare the two results. Since Power required due to aerodynamic drag is a function of V^3 it is going to be really hard to reap benefits by increasing the Fd to lower the Fr at higher speeds. Also, in order to create lift, you have to create drag, which in turn increases frontal area and on top of that, it all gets multiplied by V^3. Seems better to invest in LOWERING the Cd, and create some sort of frictionless bearings... -Oliver edit... yeah tombarace14 pretty much summed it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombarace14 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Thanks for the credit Oliver, and for making my head sore j/k. We could always invent or apply witch ever comes first, maglev bearings. I too think time would be better spent lowering CD to improve upon economy. Or use drive by wire drafting putting trucks nose to tail would help out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Not as technical as all your equations but if you have a car that was being benefited by having more lift you saving money would end when you loose control and crash the car going 70. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Here's another non-technical perspective. Regardless of the weight on the tires you still have to get the mass of the car up to speed, so it would still take the same amount of hp to pull the weight, you'd just lessen the rolling resistance between the tires and the pavement. It's a bit similar in a way to downforce on a racecar. A 5000 lb car won't handle as well as a 1000 lb car with 4000 lbs of downforce. It's not the weight on the tires that makes the car handle, it's the weight on the tires in comparison to the weight of the car. In this case if you have a 4000 lb car that has 3000 lbs of lift for instance it would handle extremely poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e_racer1999 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 ya, if anything the extra lift (read: drag) would give worse fuel economy. think about it; smoother aerodynamics allow the air to flow around (above, etc) the car. the majority of the work that the engine is doing at speed is fighting the effects of the air/wind that is trying to remain in place (as an example, think of water. a blade running through water will gi faster with less work than a blade with anything, ANTHING attached to it... well, besides a motor ). with that example in mind, anything that is going to be added on to a vehicle to alter lift, etc will incrase drag unless it's used to smooth out transitions. at least that's with my admittedly limited knowledge on the subject... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 lift = drag no no! =) downforce = reverse life = drag no win situation lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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