Sparks280zt Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I tell them of the pictures and reciepts and everything, and they say that they don't want to go any further?!?!? He gets off without even a mark on his record, why is it so easy to get off on such a thing WITH PROOF. I really hate this system. Looks like I'm gonna be heading down to the courthouse tomorrow to find out the next step. Anyone with any legal advice? Trust me, let it go. Take it as a lift lesson. You will spend more time and money than its worth to look in to it. What exactly do you need done to get the car running? You need a hood? Oil pump installed, what else? Let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Man, I can only tell you that it is expensive to get someone to back you up on this legally. I can usually get satisfaction by thinking through what I want, figuring out what can be gotten back out of a bad situation, and finally putting my side of the story together in such a way that clearly describes exactly what I want and what is wrong. On a side note, I have an friend who always gets the short end of the deal in these situations. It has a lot to do with how he comes across and his relative lack of debating skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted October 24, 2007 Author Share Posted October 24, 2007 Trust me, let it go. Take it as a lift lesson. You will spend more time and money than its worth to look in to it. What exactly do you need done to get the car running? You need a hood? Oil pump installed, what else? Let me know. Oil pump is taking care of now, I just need to pull it apart again, as I set the timing wrong. LOL I could probably get a hood at a local junkyard, but there is a guy somewhat local who has a hood, and front airdam, and a few other parts I may be looking at soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted November 26, 2007 Author Share Posted November 26, 2007 Well, It seems as though that I'm going to court, I'm still looking into it a bit more. I have a few questions about this though. How long of a time frame do I have between the incident occuring before its been too long to file charges. The only reason I ask is because I have to get a quote for repairs before I can goto court. I'd much rather have the car running and drive it to the shop to get the quote then eat 2 towing costs, and court fees and such if/when I loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30TRBO Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Looks like Virginia has a 5 year Statute of Limitation on written contracts and 3 years on oral agreements. BTW I still have a hood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 Where did you find this info? I've been looking all over, but I guess I'm typing in the wrong things. I'll let you know what happens about the hood. I want to goto court first before I start fixing what I'm sueing for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30TRBO Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Where did you find this info? I've been looking all over, but I guess I'm typing in the wrong things. I'll let you know what happens about the hood. I want to goto court first before I start fixing what I'm sueing for. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=virginia+Statute+of+Limitation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Sorry to hear about your adventure. I dont like people working on my Z (or any other cars for that matter). This scenario is basically a he said/she said complaint which involves consumer complaint protection laws. Every state has these consumer protection laws in place to protect the consumer. In this case you, the consumer, were purchasing their product (which is their service to your vehicle) which they were negligent in. When you dropped your car off, whereas the body was in its undamaged condition, you gave the shop Care, Custody, and Control of your vehicle. Once they accept Care, Custody, and Control of your vehicle (regardless of completing the repairs or not) they are responsible for any damages to said vehicle. Care, Custody, and Control does not transfer back to you until you sign their invoice, they give you your keys back, and you drive off their lot. Once you accept Care, Custody, and Control (without hesitation or inspection of the vehicle and any possible damages) you lose any real right to complain about it later. So, cudos to you for getting the police involved! That will make it easier for you when/if you do file your small claims complaint. What you have to do is create a timeline with your trailer. Get everyone involved with that trailer to complete an affidavit with dates, condition of the car and each individual involved needs to complete, sign, and date their affidavit in front of a notary...., including yourself. Your affidavit(s) need to relate your involvement in your trailer as well as your experience leading up to you dropping off your car, what you did while their car was at their shop (such as you driving by multiple nights and the car was out of their shop...not in the shop as the owner claims), and how the shop owner acted when you demanded to inspect the car w/the owner prior to accepting the car. With the Care, Custody, Control issues in mind...do you now see why he was trying to get you to accept your vehicle w/out a visual inspection! Then take those affidavits to the courthouse and have them filed w/your small claims complaint. Make sure you request your case to be heard in front of a jury. Even if he does have an atty, they would be stupid to allow this story to be told in front of a jury!!! Imagine how many other jurors out there have had horror stories w/auto repair shops! W/your affidavits in file, they will be considered fact until proven otherwise. The case will pick up w/whatever facts are in the file. SO, get those affidavits in the file first and foremost. Many small claims court judges cant stand atty's because they know that atty's will attempt to confuse the issues (most judges are thinking about being elected to higher benches in the future) so they, the judges, want the people to see them as if they, the judges, are on the peoples side. Before doing all this you may want to consult an atty of your own who specializes in Consumer Protections Laws for your state. If you do decide to file a complaint you need to not work on the car at all. Any addt'l work will be seen as "Spoliation" and compromise your claim. Your case may not be heard for..., no telling how long! You have to decide if you want to wait on the case to be called and concluded (not working on the car until after the case concludes) or just forgetting it and moving on. If nothing else, attempt a free consultation w/an atty that specializes in Consumer Protection Laws. If that atty feels you may have a claim, ask them how much they would charge you for them to do nothing else but write some letters for you - to their atty, when the need arises; and you yourself would take care of all other court needs. Good luck. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 that is EXACTLY what I needed to know. I am currently working on the car, but I have made sure to not touch the body in anyway. I had fixed what the shop owner had said was unfixable. "Professional mechanics" couldn't fix it. But some "stupid kid" fixed the problem in 2 hours, this is deffinitly getting brought up in the case, just as an extra kick. I have a note from him explaining that the problem was not repairable, but could be replaced only. I have a bit of experiance in body work and paint. Actually half the school and shop time it takes to be certified, so I know how body work goes when a shop causes damage. I didn't care what it looked like, as long as it was straight and true, if the color didn't match, thats fine-I'm gonna paint it anyway. But now that I've been called out as a "stupid kid" trying to start something and trying to wiesel my way out of paying labor fees, now I'm mad. I'm gonna fight for it to look the way it did before, I don't want to see a diffrence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Regarding the "Spoliation" issue. Seriously, dont work on it unless you offer the incompentant shop to be there with you before you begin. 1) Was anyone w/you as you dropped the car off at their shop 2) Was anyone w/you when you begain working on the car after your car was towed to your house? If their atty is up on the "Spoliation" issue, you can get around that by claiming "You are not an expert - therefore can not be held to a higher standard" which they, the shop will be held to by the state. If you are going to work on your car, which I would recommend doing, until after your claim is over; just make sure you take lots of pictures and have someone with you to file their own affidavit that you did not touch the body work and only worked on the mechaincs...this way their testimony will address the fact that you were not contributory to the body damage in any way. Each time you go out to work on the car's mechanics - make sure you have someone present w/you to view the car prior to you working on it...and take a picture of the car each time w/that person in the picture. Everything you do on the car from here on out will either substantiate your claim or compromise it. Seriously, the "Spoliation" can come back and kick you in the seat of your pance. Before you do anymore work on the car, type up a letter: 1) To the incompentant shop 2) Letting them know you plan to file a complaint against them 4) Need to have them present when your body shop does their estimate 3) That you need to work on the car's mechanics only 4) and, You are giving them a chance be present while working on the car to 5) Prove you have not contributed any further damaged than that which 6) Your car received while at their shop First, this shows the court that you offered them to be present before working on the car. Dont worry about them showing up, after your mechanical work has already been done, as they will see you as all bark and no bite...and then simply ignore you. When you send this letter, send it Return Receipt Requested/Registered Mail. Wait 15 days and send another letter reminding them of the previous letter and that they failed to respond to the first letter, hence the need to send another letter. After 30 days have gone by - most states will see this as plenty of time for the other party to respond, then have a body shop write up an estimate of damages. Once all this has been done - then you should have no problems continuing to your work on the vehicle. To ocupy your time while you are not doing any further work on the vehicle you can be obtaining your affidavits and lining up your time line, and arguments for your claim. Make sure your body shop estimate is done/dated after your letters were dated. This way, the court will see that you did not touch the car until after the other shop ignored their chance to be present. Do your two letters first. They will see you as a nuisance and ignore your letters, yet copies of these letters will go in your case file you register w/the court. The judge will see this as you attempting to fulfill your administrative duty...to which the other party left you no other choice but to file in court. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Either you've been through this many times, or your a lawyer. Keep it coming, this is extremely helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 No, I'm not a lawyer..., I just play one on TV (sorry, dont get to use that line very often). I used to work for an insurance company that only insured New/Used auto dealerships. One of the types of claims I handled were product liability claims. You really have all you need to proceed - dont forget to check w/an atty that handles Consumer Protection Claims for your state. Your hurdles are going to be how the judge responds to their atty and if the judge actually lets the atty speak, how well you are at debating in the heat of action, how well you are prepared to present your claim to the court/jury, and how believable you are to the jury. Good Luck. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted November 29, 2007 Author Share Posted November 29, 2007 So I can randomly request a jury. Will it be granted automaticly, or is it a shot in the dark where its up to the court system weather or not they will grant a jury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 different states, different rules. You have to check w/the small claims court in your county. It will also depend on the amount of damage - hence the need for an estimate. Something you might try. Call your agent and tell them you dont want to turn in a claim but would like to talk to one of the adjusters at your carrier's claim center to simply ask them a question. If they let you talk to an adjuster - quickly run them through your scenario and ask them for suggestions (all under the agreement that they are not giving you legal advice and are only sharing information - this will give them a disclaimer so that you can not hold them accountable if things dont go your way). Sometimes they will comply - other times they will not. The worst you could get is a no. Kevin, (Yea, Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted November 29, 2007 Author Share Posted November 29, 2007 I tried going to the court yesterday, and asked about the time limit I have to file the claim after the deed was done. They said it was a legal question that could not be answered unless I talked to an attorney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I knew keeping my old insurance doc's would come in handy someday. The state of VA statute of limitations is 2 years for BI (Bodily Injury Claims) and 5 years for PD (Phisical Damage) claims. Your claim is a PD claim. To further break your claim down it is a Personal Property Physical Damage claim. So, you have up to 5 years from the time your first noticed the damages to file your claim. Confirm this w/your insurance company as my doc's are about 10 years old. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 I only have liability on the car for right now, would my insurance company still do an estimate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 No, they wont do an estimate, liability doesnt cover PD damages - you have to go to any body shop of your choice for a free estimate. Explain why you want it and what your planning on doing. Get two to three estimates so you will be able to get a good average idea of whats needed. I dont want to discourage you - but if you do wish to pursue this, it isnt going to be a slam dunk. If you are going to pursue this, time is important. Get your two letters out w/in the next 30 days. Send the first letter now, and the second letter in 15 days. After they have ignored you: then get all your pictures of the pre-damaged car and pictures of post-damages, write up a simple one page synopsis of what happened injecting dates, mileage on the odometer, and possible witnesses you plan on proving your claim. Get it filed and dont beat around the bush. Time is a wasting. Even if you have a 5 year statute of limitation...you dont want to wait around. The longer you take to get the ball rolling the more the court will see your claim as less serious. Take immediate action starting w/the letters to the shop. I know you are frustrated - but you need to be sure you want to pursue this. As I said, this is basically going to be a he said/she said claim which isnt always easy to prove in front of a judge and their atty who will probably be good a twisting the issues. Make sure you are totally committed and if you are - get the first letter out today. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savageskaterkid Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 Would it still be he said/she said if I have proof that the car was origanally undamaged. Or is it something they'll most likely through out as not being a dated picture, even though the trailer serial number is in the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 If you are going to go thru w/this, each point that you want to make (need to make that is to prove your point) has to be backed up w/facts...not feelings. Even if you know that your facts are facts - the judge doesnt know this and neither does the jurors. So, in order for the judge and jurors to know what you know you have to prove to them that each piece of evidence is fact and not feelings. Even though the Consumer Protection Laws are in the favor of the consumer - it is still the job of the judge/jurors to make sure your claim is not just someone trying to make a quick buck from a local merchant. Even though the Consumer Protection Laws are there to protect the consumer - the court is there to also protect the merchant from professional claimants. As a result, you have to be able to prove each piece of evidence you feel is a fact - you have to be able to back it up w/enough proof; be it affidavits, hard evidence, pictures that people you know are credible will testify to its time. If you cant prove these points then yes - it will boil down to your word against theirs. You need mileage, dates, places, people, and behavior of all the players. You are telling a story to the people in the audience. The more complete your story - the easier the moral/objective of the story will be understood. The less understood your story's objective is the less likely you will be believed. This is why a few of the previous posters said the amount of damage isnt worth chasing the incompetant shop throught court..., just chock it up to live and learn. This doesnt mean you cant go ahead and make your point. It all depends on how much energy you are willing to put into this; that is why the courts are there - so that you can address your grievances if desired. If you are not willing to go to court - go picket in front of his shop for a few weekend Sat's or Sundays...you would be surprised how many passerbyers will stop and talk to you; or put out some fliers on telephone poles telling your story....these are all choices you have. Just remember - you dont know what level of scuminess these people are; so dont stur the pot unless you are willing to get dirty yourself. Good luck. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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