JustinOlson Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I just stumbled across these pictures. Gives me some interesting ideas for incorporating this into a 240z... I need to measure the frame rail spacing of the sc300 now... Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zwannabe Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 holy jesus! that would make a jz swap all to ridiculously easy...it would seem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted November 21, 2007 Administrators Share Posted November 21, 2007 2 words that throw a big monkey wrench into this... Track width! Flares are one option. Narrowing the cross-member and rack to keep the wheels under the stock fenders is also an option, though the A-arm pickup points would end up at least partially, if not fully through the fenders into the engine bay and might encroach on engine ancillaries, intake/exhaust, etc. If the narrowed cross member option is used, the geometry should be plotted to get an idea of what ill-effects will be gained by narrowing the track of that suspension to that degree, (roll center and instant centers changes, etc). Double A-arms on the front of the S-30 Z with performance being the primary design goal has been looked into. One of the big hurdles on the S-30 is its quite narrow track, space available for the engine, its ancillaries and intake/exhaust, (depending on which power plant is to be utilized), then to get control arms with any sort of realistic length in the leftover space and a steering rack with its inner tie rods narrow enough for proper geometry, i.e. keep bump steer in check. This thread touches on A-arms in an S-30.. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=126992 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted November 22, 2007 Administrators Share Posted November 22, 2007 ... I need to measure the frame rail spacing of the sc300 now... Agreed. It may be an illusion, but those rails seem wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big B Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I have been looking into this option also but have never got a measurement on how wide the rails are on the sc300. Very interested in what you find out. I would like a wider track for the front and as for fenders I'm using the yz kit so this shouldn't be a problem. Someone that doesn't use a wider body kit may get away with just using higher offset wheels. Most of todays sports cars are using wide track widths and high offset wheels. Now I'm no suspension guru by no means. but I like this idea because the whole suspension mounts to the subframe and if you don't go cutting it up you should keep the same suspension geometry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zwannabe Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 2 words that throw a big monkey wrench into this... Track width! Flares are one option. Narrowing the cross-member and rack to keep the wheels under the stock fenders is also an option, though the A-arm pickup points would end up at least partially, if not fully through the fenders into the engine bay and might encroach on engine ancillaries, intake/exhaust, etc. If the narrowed cross member option is used, the geometry should be plotted to get an idea of what ill-effects will be gained by narrowing the track of that suspension to that degree, (roll center and instant centers changes, etc). Double A-arms on the front of the S-30 Z with performance being the primary design goal has been looked into. One of the big hurdles on the S-30 is its quite narrow track, space available for the engine, its ancillaries and intake/exhaust, (depending on which power plant is to be utilized), then to get control arms with any sort of realistic length in the leftover space and a steering rack with its inner tie rods narrow enough for proper geometry, i.e. keep bump steer in check. This thread touches on A-arms in an S-30.. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=126992 ok, well, with this being said how much if any would a welded crossmember weaken its strength? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted November 22, 2007 Administrators Share Posted November 22, 2007 ok, well, with this being said how much if any would a welded crossmember weaken its strength? I'm thinking that Braaps concern was not limited to strength, but geometry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Correct me if I am wrong, but Braap is saying our 240z's have much less distance from frame rail to outer fender lip than an SC300. Thus the wheel would be positioned way far out of the fender compared to stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted November 22, 2007 Administrators Share Posted November 22, 2007 Correct me if I am wrong, but Braap is saying our 240z's have much less distance from frame rail to outer fender lip than an SC300. Thats not how I take what he wrote. Thus the wheel would be positioned way far out of the fender compared to stock? From the pictures, it looks that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted November 22, 2007 Author Share Posted November 22, 2007 I don't see how narrowing the subframe would have an effect on the geometry of the suspension. You could run a wheel with much higher offset with this setup to help pull the wheel further in. It is really a matter of finding a donor car and doing it. I'm not sure it would be completely straight forward, but I would imagine its doable. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted November 22, 2007 Administrators Share Posted November 22, 2007 I don't see how narrowing the subframe would have an effect on the geometry of the suspension. It has everything to do with the geometry, particularly roll centers and RC migration. Do some googling... its out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Oh, I sewht Braap was getting at. Yes, that is a good point. Those issues can be fixed by cutting and rewelding the knuckle side of the cross member side attachment points... that would probably make them a failiure point though. Hmmm. I need to read my suspension book some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zwannabe Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I'm thinking that Braaps concern was not limited to strength, but geometry. sorry, maybe i shouldnt have been way more specific. i asked this because cutting and welding the crossmember and using the z steering assembly could be an option if a way to change the location of the engine mounts was possible. thus strength would be in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Out of curiosity is this the same suspension setup as the early SC400's or is there some inherent difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted November 23, 2007 Author Share Posted November 23, 2007 I'd imagine the S400 is the same as above. I looked over on ebay and they list the same lower control arm for both the sc300 and sc400... Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 I was at Andy's (2fiddyZ) yesterday and he has a gutted SC300. He said they use the same crossmember/suspension as the SC400 ad MK4 Supras. He also makes big brake kits (Wilwood) for them. SC300 inside S30 inside SC300 outside S30 outside SC300 strut to strut S30 strut to strut SC300 floor to top of crossmember SC300 track MK3 track S30 track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 Damn, thanks Clifton! So looks liked you'd need to section the subframes to make it work. Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 What tires were on that S30, same for the SC300? The track difference is a decent amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Tires, wheels or offsets? The S30 is the one in my pic. The wheels are about 1/2" short of being flush with the fenders. What tires were on that S30, same for the SC300. The track difference is a decent amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Tires, wheels or offsets? Whatever you got. So basically the control arms are quite long for a 240z? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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