capt_furious Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I've been watching WAY too much of Jay Leno's Garage lately. The Stanley Steamer got me thinking: Why hasn't this technology been explored further? Evidently those cars had absurd amounts of torque. So, here's a thread to theorize and maybe even develop a method of steam-powering a Z. My initial thoughts are to use LPG for the burner / boiler. Use distilled water to avoid scale, construct as much as possible out of stainless. Boiler / steam turbine technology has greatly improved due to its use in marine applications in the past century. Electrical power could easily be generated with a small turbine connected to a vent from the boiler and used direct-drive to a common alternator type(GM one-wire would be a good example). Designing a boiler that would be efficient enough and compact enough to make the project worthwhile would likely be the most challenging obstacle in such a project. The most significant downside is waiting for the thing to reach operating temperature, although the original steamers were kept on a low boil overnight. Another major engineering obstacle would be the design / optimization / size / placement of the cylinder(s). One would have to determine the layout, bore, stroke and compression depending on the application. There's plenty of room under the hood of a Z for a boiler, which could sit above the cylinders, which in turn could be mounted low between the frame rails. Do it right and you might be able to use the stock driveline, and eliminate the need for a transmission(imagine being able to go just as fast in reverse as you can forward!). The propane tank could easily sit in the hatch area with a clamp assembly, and the gas tank would be replaced with a water tank. I'm no engineer, but I'm sure we've got a few people here that could figure out a proper layout / sizes / number for the cylinders...maybe even come up with a Wankel-like design. Another possible alternative: skip the cylinders altogether and use a small steam turbine on a generator, feeding to a battery pack which in turn would spin an electric motor on the transmission's input shaft(this stems from putting a jet microturbine or two in the hatch with a firewall...similar to the Allison turboshaft powered ZX, but with a different power delivery method). Go ahead and call me crazy or even stupid, I don't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Im pretty sure that steam has less efficiency than internal combustion. The main benefit of steam is that you can use practically anything for fuel: gasoline, diesel, garbage, small animals... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 Maybe older methods of generating steam, yes, but has a modern solution ever been tried? I'm still not convinced that it's impossible to build a compact high-efficiency steam superheater(insert the obvious Mr. Fusion joke here). I've tossed around the idea of a dual-fuel burner system, on fluid and one gas...you'd be able to burn just about anything combustible(other than solids, of course). Consider that steam superheaters produce steam that is VERY dry, and hot enough to the point that there is little to no condensation(besides warm up and shut down cycles, of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentNight1647 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 STEAM IS BAD!!!!! Oh wait I'm back on the beach, never mind, had a flashback to the Kitty. Sounds like an interesting project, the one question I've got it where would you get parts? I would imagine 99% of the pieces you would need would need to be fabbed as most steam stuff is huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 Ever hear of the Pelland Steamer? Evidently VW had a small subdivision called Enginion recently develop a highly advanced steam-powered vehicle that made 220 hp, but it wasn't researched any further as 'the market was not ready for it'. Saab also had a steam project in the '70s. BMW is working on an auxiliary drive called a turbosteamer. 'Steam stuff is huge' is a common misconception, there are plenty of small-scale steam engines and powerplants. Yes, most of it would be custom fabrication, which is another major hurdle...however, so is taking 3 KA24DE heads and making a working L31DETT out of them. It can be done with the proper inspiration, ingenuity and resources. I've got one of the three, so I'm pretty much just planting ideas and hopefully sparking some constructive discussion here. I'm not so much suggesting this from an alternative/replacement energy standpoint, just a technological achievement standpoint that would create a vehicle that would run on just about anything, anywhere. The current 'green' trend is an annoyance to me, the accomplishments are something that should have been done long ago in the name of technological advancement, instead of a 'sky is falling' environmental hysteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatejoefitz Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 BMW is working on an auxiliary drive called a turbosteamer. http://www.popsci.com/popsci/automotivetech/163cf51b6fd89010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 See!? I'm not crazy! I'm not I'm not I'm not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 If you use distilled water, you will have to boil the water twice. Once to distill it, and once for the live steam. That does not seem that efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 I'm not suggesting distilling the water oneself(and definitely not onboard the car), simply using it to avoid scale buildup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennysgreen280zt Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 The current 'green' trend is an annoyance to me, the accomplishments are something that should have been done long ago in the name of technological advancement, instead of a 'sky is falling' environmental hysteria. Yes! Im not the only one! im tired of hearing 'go green' or 'green this/that' I think its funny, everyone says 'everything has been swapped into a Z' then this comes up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 See!? I'm not crazy! I'm not I'm not I'm not! Hey, just because there's other people crazy like you doesn't mean you're not crazy. But I think it's a great idea. I think BMW has the right idea, and to me it looks like they're working off of the patented idea that was created by bruce crower (owner of the cam company which shares the same name). His design is a 6 stroke that adds a 3rd cycle that's a steam cycle. The idea is that it cools off the chamber wich A) Allows for higher compression/boost and significantly reduces emissions. I'm not all that for "green" in the conventional sense, but if an engine produces less emissions because of a design, then in theory that engine can run a bit more power to bring it back up to market standards. Imagine if the first 6 stroke engine on the market was a 600HP corvette that produced the emissions of a honda... The really nice thing about this idea is that the steam cycle is actually a dual purpose cycle. It DOES create power, all while cooling the chamber. So in future modification there's two power cycles to look into for extra power, and in theory the hotter you make the water (via more HP like in the BMW system) the more power the water could create. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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