Owen Posted April 2, 2001 Share Posted April 2, 2001 Someone was asking about this before, mating a 6-speed to an L28 or something. Sorry if this is old news but someone on zcar.com asked them if it was possible and this company says they can do it. http://www.zfdoc.com/ They also say they have a race proven ZF 6 speed that can take over 220MPH punishment, Mike Kelley? Owen ------------------ http://www.homestead.com/s30z/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 i have a friend in fresno with a t56 behind a l28 turbo-he used a l28et t5 bell housing and did some machine work to it.the zf trans is supposed to be noisy and heavy-it was oem on some years of corvettes.even with 3.54 rear in my turbo z i could use a 6th gear-i was coming back from car z show in bay area and cruising at 80 mph and people were passing me.the jtr book about swapping tpi motors into early chevy has a rundown on zf and t56 trans-i have that book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 Thanks Owen...it was I that inquired about the T-56 backing a stock datsun 6; about a month ago. Richard, I'm currently running the factory 4spd & believe me-I could definately go w/a 6spd. Definately; I'ld prefer to have the 6spd behind a V8 & I admit/I wont be installing the T-56 in my car behind the stock inline 6; it was more/less just "Thinking Outloud" when I posed the question last month. However, as there is an argument for every rebuttle; here's mine for the 6spd behind a stock inline 6. What if an individual cant afford a 3k V8 swap (3k is a conservative swap and not highly probable as we all know) in to his/her daily driver any too soon but they could afford a 1200-$1800 6spd bullet trans...what are their gains you might ask? Well; I'ld first of all-not go w/the ZF trans because of its low .50 6spd & prefer the F-body T-56 which yields the .62 6spd; and the following #'s indicate the savings. Figure the rpm's at 65, 70 & 80mph: 3.54 rear gears 235/60/15 rear tires...26.1" diameter 4spd, 5spd, T-56 -vs- ZF T-56 1)Datusn '78" factory 4spd/4th @ 1.00:1 A)65mph = 2734rpm B)70mph = 3190rpm C)80mph = 3645rpm 2)Datsun '78' factory 5spd/5th @ .864 A)65mph = 2559rpm B)70mph = 2756rpm C)80mph = 3150rpm 3)F-Body T-56 5th @ 65,70mph & 6th @ 80mph 5th gear @ .80 6th gear @ .62 A)65mph = 2369rpm B)70mph = 2552rpm C)80mph = 2260rpm I dont know what the ZF's Y-Body T-56 has for a 5spd; but the 6spd at .50 @ 70, 80mph: A)70mph = 1595rpm B)80mph = 1822rpm We all know probably none of us would do 65mph in a 6spd Z; at least not most of us; unless we were forced to. I'ld have to question the ZF T-56 behind a Z also....but/it just depends on what one wants & what their intended purpose is (there I go ending a sentance w/a preposition again: My High School English teacher would cringe). Kevin, (Yes,Still a "Factory 4spd" Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Kevin Shasteen: Thanks Owen...it was I that inquired about the T-56 backing a stock datsun 6; about a month ago. Kevin, (Yes,Still a "Factory 4spd" Inliner) Kevin, the only time I'd go to much effort at all to put a 6spd behind an L6 would be for high speed function where I had to combine 3.9 or 4.11 gears as part of my power combo. L6's don't mind cruising at 3-4k all day long. Mine did on 1200km solo trips averaging 80+mph with 3.9's/5spd and got 30mpg doing it. I would not go to one for an rpm drop at highway speed unless I had majorly stout rear gears of 4.38 or similar which would be a totally different car anyhow. just my .02c Ross (replies few and far b/t lately) C (not a reply to every poster;^) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 I could see the need for the 6 speed with a 4.11 or numerically higher rear, but I wonder if your first gear is getting close to being low range 4wd type gearing at that point. In all the Z's I've had (3) I've had no problems cruising at 3000-3500rpm. And the thing is, that cruising below 2500rpm is really tough, because you don't have a lot of power. The other thing to consider with the T-56 is weight. Its a beefy trans, with a really beefy flywheel too. (which of course could be lightened) If I were doing a 6speed swap to an L28 powered car I'd be looking at 6 speeds that are behind similar powerplants. (not sure of ratios) Supra, S2000, BMW-getrag's, that idea. Either way, I don't see it happening for less than about $2k US, providing that you get the tranny for under $1500, due to the modifications required. Sorry if this sounds harsh, I'm just in techno-babble mode and spurting things out off the top of my head. ------------------ "Nothing is fool proof to a sufficiently talented fool." Richard Lewis - 1972 240z, Powered by a Nissan 2.8L Turbo Inline 6. Drax240's Turbo Site Beginners Turbo FAQ & Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 My Devil's Advocate/Argument isnt what an engine will do or not do; it was simply-what is the intended goal of its owner...does someone want a car for all out performance or do they want a car that cruises at lower rpms(?). My car cruises fine in the mid 3k range, my point I guess I failed to make is that during our N.Texas Summers the extra RPM's generate a lot of heat on the floorboard; my A/C works fine but does nothing to remove the floorboard heat when the Ambient Temp's pass the 110* range; as it does quite frequently in Texas during a typical summer..Hot is Hot & a Hotter Floorboard is almost unbearable. If the RPM's were lower/then less heat would be generated & the floorboard would be cooler. Deffinately would want to go steeper gears in the rear if one were looking for performance at the track; I basically just posted a real life example of rpm's...the drop would be fine if you could keep it in the 2500-2700rpm range. If one had a T56 backing the 6 you could just stay in a lower gear till the need for speed manifested itself/that is what we do everyday-the T-56 wouldnt be any different; my car has an original 177k on it & its never been cracked open before/still average 25mpg....my only complaint is the extra heat on the floorboard; I'ld definately appreciate a 10k drop at cruising speed. Kevin, (Yea,Still a "Non T-56" Inliner) [This message has been edited by Kevin Shasteen (edited April 09, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 Hmm, a 6 speed... Honestly, I don't see the point in going through all the work required to get a T-56 to fit on the L28. If you are allready doing a chevy swap and you want to bang gears, then the T-56 seems like a good choice. But really, is a .50:1 6th gear going to be THAT useful on an L-series? Its not like you can churn down the highway at 1500rpm with an L-series, like you can with a V8. (due to displacement/low rpm torque) I can see the point of going to a close ratio 6 speed on an L series... sortof. Anyhoo. ------------------ "Nothing is fool proof to a sufficiently talented fool." Richard Lewis - 1972 240z, Powered by a Nissan 2.8L Turbo Inline 6. Drax240's Turbo Site Beginners Turbo FAQ & Answers [This message has been edited by Drax240z (edited April 09, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 I think the 6 sp first gear would be rather short too. I have yet to WFO my new conversion, but its apparent that my 'favorite' gear so far, as far as mechanical advantage and when it really starts accelerating with major authority is 2nd gear. First is fairly low with my 3.54. With a 3.90, 4.11, first would come and go in the middle of the intersection. Also, not sure the L6 torque at those low revs at highway speed would like that low of a OD, even a mild V8 has to be downshifted to 5th to get 'real' passing power at least in my car. I did understand your point though Kevin and I'd look for insulating material to help with the heat problem (and if you think it gets hot now, wait till you convert it.. ). Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 I definately plan on going crazy w/insulation if/when I actually get to convert to a V8...realy do get tired of the "Hotfoot" syndrome during the summers. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 Heh, I imagine my situation will be worse! Turbo! And its going to be sitting right about there... I'll have to remember to insulate that well... The cobra daytona had the same problem apparently. The pedels in there had a little 'AC' on them, and they used to joke that after the drivers finished a course there would be a little 'AC' melted on to the soles of their shoes. Heh. ------------------ "Nothing is fool proof to a sufficiently talented fool." Richard Lewis - 1972 240z, Powered by a Nissan 2.8L Turbo Inline 6. Drax240's Turbo Site Beginners Turbo FAQ & Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 when i put bigger exhaust on my z <77> i left the cat converter heat shield in and put muffler where cat was.the console is out and floor gets too hot to touch.got a molded carpet kit-no more cracked up console.i gat some of that car rug padding to put under new carpet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 Yeah Drax, people will be asking where you got nassiN shoes... Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Taylor Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 I was also asking about this a while back. The lower revs on the highway would be cool but my main reason for asking was to get a stronger tranny behind my l28. It's putting out around 350 at the wheels at the moment, soon to be alot more and the 280zx tranny doesn't like to hold up very well to it. Still haven't figured out what to do about it but I have another tranny to go in for the moment....after i nuke it I need to do something else I suppose. JT ------------------ 1978 280z with 280zx turbo motor. Big turbo, big intercooler, and alotta boost. 8.4 @ 90 1/8 mile with a bad bad traction problem. 1994 Mustang Cobra with a few mods..... http://turbotaylor.homestead.com/files/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Kevin Shasteen: I definately plan on going crazy w/insulation if/when I actually get to convert to a V8...realy do get tired of the "Hotfoot" syndrome during the summers. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) I used Proform heat pads first on my firewall and front half of car including tunnel and then their sound stuff on top. Heat stuff was great, if I'd known it was so good I'd of used 2 layers......my trans tunnel used to cook and ebrake handle would be damn hot/no more. Kevin, does your coolant temp change with the higher rpm's/summer heat? You only mentioned ambient? You may benefit from a rad upgrade or oil cooler to keep temps nominal. My l6 wouldn't get hot no matter what (milder temps up here) but my V8 will increase in temp at sustained high rpms roadracing, nothing dangerous but my L6 would NEVER climb from my Tstat. FWIW, recalling my L6 I wouldn't cruise highway at less than 3000rpm minimal/it was just so happy at that clip/beautifully balanced motor that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 I am currently putting a T-56 behind an L-motor, the reason being is that i am having a "built" turbo motor that is going to be installed in the car with a healthy shot of niterous and i do not belive a stock 5 speed would live very long. So i weighted my options and a T-56 fell into place, so around 1500 later i will have a strong manual tranny to take drag strip abuse. If i weren`t so hell bent on going fast with the six cyl i would just live with the stock 5 speed and spend my money elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 I think I'm qualified to jump in here... I am building a 200MPH car and I have a T56... And I would NOT put a T56 behind anything less than 400HP for two reasons... The cost and complexity of the job. I'd also remind anyone thinking about doing it to make sure they select the proper engine parts before doing it...My 6th gear is worthless below 2000rpms and does the herky-jerky on the highway because the cam isn't making any power below 2000RPMS... So basically I do a lot of driving in 5th gear. And I don't care how cool it is to say you have a 6 speed... It ain't $2000 worth of cool and if I could have found a T5 that was stong enough for half the cost, I would have gone that route.... Oh, and the ZF transmissions are big, heavy, and way noisy...and parts are expensive for them as well...as are the Richmond units, and their shifter linkage is external which would cause tunnel interference... Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted April 11, 2001 Author Share Posted April 11, 2001 Geez, I try to pass on some info to someone who was asking for it and the thread explodes! I wouldn't use the T-56 behind one of those either, unless you are blowing trannies left and right like a Mitsubishi Eclipse. There are aftermarket import trannies too, HKS, TRUST, etc, but big-big bucks! Hey Mike, justa question, but I wonder if the new ZF trannies are any good? Saw an add for their company in Automotive News and they used the words "small", "lighter", etc. Owen ------------------ http://www.homestead.com/s30z/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 11, 2001 Share Posted April 11, 2001 I would agree with you on the cost. Had I known the expense of putting in the 6 spd, I seriously would have thought about it again. I wanted the 6sp since I test drove a camaro with one, but there are some cost to consider for sure, specially if your running a two piece main seal engine. Special flywheel, and electronic speedo are two pretty big hits of $$$ ($500.00 just for those items). As far as putting a strong five speed in, that would have been a option for sure, but the Tremec 5sp is the only one rated at enough torque for even a stock 350 and it gets pretty pricey too (maybe a few hundred less). A T-5 might work, but I likened my chance of getting a good used one that would last would be like my playing russian roulette with a gun with 5 bullets in it (I'm speaking for me here, my luck, others may have better luck). Complexity of installation, I think its a wash, its not really any more difficult (IMHO) than any other tranny in there, except for the physical size and a bit of bashing in a few places. I do think though that 400hp as a minimum might be kind of excessive. The camaro/firebird the T56 came from had no where near that HP rating and worked fine. The problem is just cam duration and gearing. If you run a big cam, you need lower gearing if you want to pull that OD at a decent speed. A car with less cam will easily pull the OD at lower R's with higher gearing (although it probably won't pull all of redline obviously due to wind resistance and just lack of top end HP.). Just a counter opinion, but price alone as you pointed out is definately a consideration.. Respectfully, Lone ------------------ http://datsun240v8z.virtualave.net/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 Ross, My car's temp never moves/always stays right in the middle accept on the 115*F days-it'll then move to the right but only a little. My floor heats up if I sustain the 3500rpm's for any period of time. I'll definately try some insulation when I do my swap. SSS510, Interesting to see "SSS510" as your name...Courtesy Nissan in Plano Tx has one of those "SSS" badges on a plaque behind their parts counter/ & no, he wont sell it-I already asked. Let us know what it's like after you've swapped the T-56 in. Mike, I have the factory 4spd & my car cruises okay in the 2200-2500rpm range...as long as I'm not going up a steep hill; When I'm doing 70mph my rpm's are at the 3400-3600rpm range-I could definately go w/a 10k RPM drop at the 70mph speed zones...but I'm still gonna wait for my V8 swap before I go w/the T-56. IMHO; I dont see that the gear ratio's differ that much from a stock 4spd...w/exception of the 5th & 6th addt'l gears of course. I'm also making the referance to the factory Datsun 78 vintage gearing out of my Owner's manual; I'm not familiar w/other Datsun/Nissan gear ratio's. Datsun 4spd/5spd Ratio's 1) 3.321 2) 2.077 3) 1.308 4) 1.000 5) .864 Standard T-56 1) 2.97 2) 2.07 3) 1.43 4) 1.00 5) .80 6) .62 !st gear is actually gonna wind out futher in the T-56 than the stock Datsun trans...dont know if that is better or worse w/less HP/Torque of an L-engine(?). [This message has been edited by Kevin Shasteen (edited April 11, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 Lone, I agree with your points, but I think in my post I intended to mention the torque as well, and I didn't... Torque is what is killing the T5s in Mustangs and Camaros and the T56 really is a bruit when it comes to handling torque. If I was building up a ZZ4 build, It would be a hard choice make between the tremec and the T56... And Cam choice is what really got me into trouble, but I am afterall building my car to do "Other things" besides running around town and hunting down potential victims! Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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