Guest Anonymous Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 i found a nice engine for a V8 Z conversion here is the description "Complete package made 660h.p. and 606ft.lbs. on 434cu. S.B.C. Dyno time only with over $4,000 invested. Total Package : $2400 or best offer. Will separate if necessary." I was wondering what type of performence this would have in a Z in the 1/4 mile stability,ect. I was considering either a 260 or a 240. Which would be more suitable for the transplant. Also, what other modification would have to be taken to make this streetable and daily drivin (as in only source of transportation). Also, what do you guys think would be the best transmisson for the job? I defitnly want a manual and was looking at the T56 but your opionons would defitinly help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank280z Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Personally for the street I think it's too much. You won't be driving fast. You'll be flying low. The 240 would be lighter. There would defintely have to be some structural stiffening. And a rear swap with Z31/32 or Q45 with CVs. The t56 tranny will probably hold good. Somebody was saying the other day to use the 96? up model. Handles more torque. Darius is running somewhere in those numbers. Did you see the mpeg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 600+ hp is just a wee bit much for the street, my 420 horse motor was more than a handful to drive and it had 285-50 15's on 10 inch wheels in the rear with 3:54 gears. And forget traction at takeoff, it does not exist unless you are going to a 4 Link set up or Ladder Bars with a panhard bar. My car went through the traps at 13.02@101mph and the tires were spinning at the 1/8 mile mark. I was also using a Turbo 350 trans (did not last long)and launching at 1600RPM's, any more would boil the tires. If you are looking for a fun street ride, 300 horses will do you fine and you can run 13 sec. times with an A/Tnull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 That sounds like a "race only" engine--any engine that is N/A with that kind of HP has to be to radical for the street; but it's fun to dream. So, theoretically, I'd say with some mods to the car, if you can get some traction and not break anything, you would be in the 9s or low 10s. With a drag racing setup like Ron's, maybe faster--he has a BBC and is running mid 8 secs. I'm not sure of HP or torque, though. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarp Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Les Heath: 600+ hp is just a wee bit much for the street, my 420 horse motor was more than a handful to drive and it had 285-50 15's on 10 inch wheels in the rear with 3:54 gears. And forget traction at takeoff, it does not exist unless you are going to a 4 Link set up or Ladder Bars with a panhard bar. My car went through the traps at 13.02@101mph and the tires were spinning at the 1/8 mile mark. I was also using a Turbo 350 trans (did not last long)and launching at 1600RPM's, any more would boil the tires. If you are looking for a fun street ride, 300 horses will do you fine and you can run 13 sec. times with an A/T null 420 hp and you only turned a 13.02@101 mph???? did your car tip the scales at 3900+ lbs ??? sorry but up here at 3500 asl 420hp (sea level hp.) is worth at least mid 12's on street tires. just my opinion but that time really does not sound right. I had like 490 hp. in a 73 in the past and turned a 11.13 at this alt. (on DOT slicks) Just my 0.02 worth. . Stan . ps lets not forget that a stock rear can hook up. check it out. http://members.tripod.com/scarp/noszcar/noszcar.html [ May 08, 2001: Message edited by: scarp ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RON JONES Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Over $4000 invested?I'd like to know how Anyone could build a 660Hp 434 for less than $8000.If the HP numbers are true,and this is a 434,this is a SCREAMING DEAL!But this is not a street motor by any means.This has to be a high compresion motor with a very large Cam!Race Car stuff.If You are not going to buy this Motor,I would like to know Where One could find it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patzky1 Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 I WANT I WANT But seriously, thats tooooo many ponies. Like half of that horsepower would be cool. But for a daily driver the gas mileage would be stellar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 As Ron said, sounds pretty cheap for that much HP. Heck the guys with built 383's that are making less HP are spending very close if not that much. To make it basic transportation would require, less cam, probably less compression, hard to say without knowing more specifics on its build, but its probably not an engine I would start with for a daily driver. For the pieces to convert it to a milder engine plus the purchase price would probably buy a 383 that is milder, and better mannered for a street car. IMHO. Lone [ May 08, 2001: Message edited by: lonehdrider ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 quote: Originally posted by patzky1: I WANT I WANT But seriously, thats tooooo many ponies. Like half of that horsepower would be cool. But for a daily driver the gas mileage would be stellar. The gas mileage shouldn't be that much worse than any other 434 sbc should it? Gas mileage is proportionate to the amount of HP the engine is producing at the time. That engine may be capable of producing over 600hp, but as long as you don't have it floored all the time, it shouldn't be that bad. I modded my 300ZX TT, and if anything, the gas mileage went slightly up due to the freer flowing intake and exhaust. Only when I boost it does the mileage really take a hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 I'ld have to agree about the engine being too much for a daily driver; maybe a weekend warrior-but now a daily driver. With that many ponies-things are wound pretty tight on the inside. Even if you dont get on it that much-things are bound to break; probably sooner than later. If he is putting that much hp out then he either did all the work himself (which means he owns a machine shop) as to achieve that lever involves an incredible amount of machine work; blueprinting & porting. A race port to the heads could easily kill $600 alone. Is that only his asking price or is he claiming that is all he has in the engine? That is a steal for anyone wanting a killer engine: if the numbers are correct. BTW: 660hp in a 2600lbs Z should net an 11.56 ET at 148mph; providing you could obtain any kind of respectable traction. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 11.56 @ 148 in a 2600lb car is about 550RWHP and an indication of SERIOUS traction problems. It is pointless running with that much power w/o slicks. Assuming traction is there, a 660RWHP, 2600lb Z should be running 9.50 @ 148. Even if that is 660FWHP, it should still run 10.20s @ 137ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Your right Scottie-thanks for catching that. I was pretty tired last night @ 13:30am....I got the mileage correct but messed up on the "ET" which I came up w/9.19 ET if using 660hp as RWHP; assuming a 100% VE. Just maiking sure you all are paying attention (haha). That's what I like about this forum; if someone makes a mistake-surely someone else will call him on it and the mistake gets corrected real fast like. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) [ May 09, 2001: Message edited by: Kevin Shasteen ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 I agree with the others, that's too many ponies for the street and the price stinks of fish. A "built" 383 with forged everything and aluminum heads will run over that $4K mark and keep going! My motor was something like $4500 (fuzzy) and won't make more thna 450HP. That's a good steel crank, forged Eagle rods, forged J&Es, and Edelbrock RPM aluminum heads. Flat tappet cam too, add more if it's a roller. Cubes will bring te ppower up but if this is a 400some odd cube motor making 600+hp that's one effecient motor! Sounds like something you'd pull the pin on and run from "Just dyno time" rings bells too - I've got a friend who wore a motor out on the dyno fiddling with it (lol). Gas mileage would be terrible as the cam has got to be mighty nasty and ineffecient at lower RPM. Don't kid yourself and think it'll be okay because you're not WOT all the time that it will be okay. Hrm, wonder if this is a solid cam? Enjoy the lash adjustments... For a manual trans I'm not sure what would harness that. A T5 wouldn't last a second, a T56 would last a little while, I'm not sure what would work best. Not sure what the T56 limit is and hope to never find out! Do yourself a favor, build a nice mild 300 or 400HP motor with good strong internals. Spend a little more than what this guy wants if you have to but realize that you'll KNOW what's in it. Then, slap a 150 shot of NOS on it. You'll keep your street mannered motor for driving but be able to slap down higher powered cars with the push of a button. I think overall you'll be much happier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Never thought I would ever consider having too much HP for the street. I do not think I would discourage anyone from building a 600+RWHP Z-car, but a lot of alarms would be going off. When I look at the Darius video of him spinning his tires at 60mph, I am impressed but also say I certainly hope he could on street tires. Right now I will not run anything on the back of my car but a DR because you are not always going straight at 60mph when you stomp it. Even with a DR, 1st and even 2nd gear will put a 400+hp Z sideways, with normal pressure and cold tires. I have the racing stripes in my shorts to prove it Kevin, I do not think there is an "expert" on this forum who claim they did not learn something here everyday. One thing I have learned is that when I see posts with words like "Kinematics" in the topic, I grab the Excedrin Migraine bottle before I start reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 I talked to the guy today and he said it was a race only motor from a 70nova that ran on 110 octane. forget that idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Scarp, my car was running on street tires with NO trick suspension at sea level also. I am sure the car would have gone faster if I could have gotten it to hook up. Without traction you are not going to run 11 sec. runs in anything. I tried to access both of your listed and I can't into either are you working on the sites, or am I doing something wrong? Iam real interested in seeing how you make an IRS hook up as I am building a 77 with a 383 TPI and would love to see this thing run low to mid 12's. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Les, I do not know the details of your 383 buildup, but take a look at this post and see what another 383 Z just accomplished, 1st time out. http://www.hybridz.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=17&t=000036 I am sure everyone has their own suspension setup so I can only tell you what works for me. My car is a 71Z, Buick GN drivetrain, with a transbrake on the 200R4. I raised my rear perch and cut down a set of 280ZX 2+2 springs. That mod allows me to run 275/50-15 BFG DRs on 15x8 Welds with 4.5" BS, but you could probably squeeze a 5.5" BS in there. I would recommend a coilover setup instead. I have Tokico Illuminas all around and at the track I set the F&R shocks to the softest setting. I also have both swaybars removed. 18# in the tires, a 3-sec burnout on a line-loc and a 5-6# boost launch on the t-brake. Nothing trick, just a lot of trial & error to come up with this combo that seems to work for my car. I am dying to see my car in action on a video because I am told it really squats, but where other cars leap of the line, mine seems to "squirt". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fast Frog Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 I agree with the "fishy smell" that some of you have sensed. To build a 434 of any consequence is going to be in the 5 figures!! A few months ago, someone posted a web address listing 434 Specifications. I went ahead and did a unit cost for that particular engine and it totaled over $23,000 for nr 700HP!! The aftermarket block alone is $2000! Heads for that kind of HP(above 6500rpm)will run $2500-$3000 for a pair. In just those two components, you've got $4000+! FLASH!!! I went back to that 434 website and he's updated it!! The HP of that engine is no longer 680. It's now 644!! HHHMMmm!! Less HP for $27,000 vs 660HP for $4000!! Maybe I'm missing something here. [ May 09, 2001: Message edited by: Fast Frog ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 Damn, that's way too expensive for an engine! For those HP #'s, I would try to fit a Toyota Supra engine in there. You can get over 800hp on stock internals on the Supra's inline 6. You'll need larger turbo's, higher flow injectors, and an upgraded ECU to get those #'s. From what I hear on the Supra forums, 600 hp is really easy to get with that engine, and it should only cost a few thousand in mods over the cost of the engine. [ May 09, 2001: Message edited by: MegaShaft_2000 ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 2400 for a race motor!!!!! shoot lower the compression lose some HP and thats a steal. id buy it in a heart beat. IF i were shopping for a motor id buy it. i paid close to 4500 for my rb-26 that is running around 380 RWHP. I would have to agree with posts above thought alot of chassis mods would be required before running it hard. youd twist a z into a pretzel if you ever got any traction. stony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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