Guest Frank280z Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Maybe the shifter is off position..I'd pop that out b4 I went ahead and take the whole thing out. My friend had a similar problem. And was able to fix it by removing the shifter and the base plate. Reposition it into neutral and place the shifter assy. back in. Hope you figure it out Mike. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted July 6, 2001 Author Share Posted July 6, 2001 I don't get this? As you know I just started my engine last week, and ran it in my driveway from 1st to reverse back and forth to make sure everything works. Well this morning I decided to have the exhaust work done, so I reversed out of the driveway and put it in 1st, and it stalled. It felt like it was in 5th or 6th gear or that the brakes were locking up. No matter what I did I couldn't move foward or reverse? So I jacked up the rear and front to check the brakes, they were fine. While I had the rear in the air, I pushed in the clutch and started it. In neutral I slowly let the clutch out and the rear wheels started turning? When I put it in any other gear the engine stalled out? So since I was in the middle of the road, I let the car back down, left it in neutral, started the car and released the clutch and the car went forward? So I drove it, rideing the clutch alot back into the garage. I smelt clutch burning, so I must of been in 5th or so? I've tried everything to make it go back into neutral but it wont. Did anyone else have a weird problem with there T56? Do I need to pull this stupid tranny now? Signed, VERY FUSTRATED!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Man that is a wierd one... Did you put any power to the skip shift solenoid? I'm clueless here, as I had all sorts of problems with my trans, which I documented in my T56 article, but had nothing like that happen. Its shifts through the gears well without the car running? You don't have a balancer plate in behind the flywheel do you? Mike, this is No help at all, but I removed my transmission 8 times before I got it right... I was reduced to laying on the floor in tears, and basically let my car sit through much of the summer of 1999 due to trans woes...All because the clutch kit I got had no visual aids and wasn't assembled from the factory, and noone in my neck of the woods had ever seen a release bearing go in between the clutch and presure plate... and I had a balancer plate installed on the back of the motor, which I didn't need (Thank you to Kip at BowTie Performance for being so insistant on me using it...) Mike Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Heh, hope mine isn't a bear. Assembling the clutch was no big deal and no balancer plate but I'm still worried. My shifter must have a stick three feet long - those Camaro guys drive pickups or something?! The thread for th eknob is as big as my thumb too - sheesh! If I shorten this stick overcoming the reverse lockout is going to be painfull - it takes two hands now! Has anyone tried removing the spring and whatnot in it? I'd like SOME resistance but this is crazy! hich doodad is it? I've yet to figure out which doohicky is really the lockout - it it the one at the very top by the shifter? If so getting to it would be a bear (sigh). We'll see, I'll leave the stick long for now as I'm not sure how tough stainless will be to weld. Anyone found a decent shift knob for these beasts?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted July 6, 2001 Author Share Posted July 6, 2001 Mike, I don't even have a skip shift solenoid, my tranny never came with one, so I plugged the hole with one of those expandable rubber plugs. I also did the same with the lock out solenoid, and used softer springs inside so I can shift in reverse a little easier.I also don't have a balancer plate either.I think there's something really messed up inside this thing! On this tranny, can I leave the bellhousing/clutch assembly on the engine, and unbolt the tranny for removeal? I haven't looked under there yet to see, I parked it and left in disgust yesterday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Hrm, I THINK the bellhousing on mine is all one piece but I'm not sure. Pulling that puppy without pulling the motor might also be "fun". Looking at mine I'm not sure how happy I would be if I have to pull that trans anytime soon (fingers crossed!). I hope it doesn't come to that for either of us! I can't see where either of the mods you've done would cause this problem.... Replacing the lockout springs works? I had hoped it might and didn't realize how stiff mine was until the other day. I suppose I shodl b considering this mod, late as it is. The woman will never be able to get this puppy in reverse if she has to drive it if I shorten the stick. I'm tempted to put power to the silly solenoid - what a PITA! Anyone find a decent shift knob for this beast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Mike KZ, I dont have your answer-just wanted to pass along some morale support. I know you know this-but I'll say it anyway. You're so close & you've got a pretty incredible Z. The solution to your trans problem appears to be a major delay...remember-it's not major regardless of monitary expense/it's a minor problem & you or we (HybridZ) will figure it out. Its easy to see why our projects can get the best of us sometimes-especially as much time you've spent on yours. Keep your eyes on what's important & treat this like you would any other problem....ask everyone you know of that might be able to contribute to the solution for answers & you'll figure it out! Have you thought of calling a T-56 specialist? Maybe a Chevy Dealer's service manager can help you-they have a tech line they can post questions on-this tech line is a national data base for GM dealers. If the national data base doenst offer any solutions the dealer can then post the question to Detroit HQ directly for an answer from one of their own engineers. Something to think about! Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Thats why they have that big shift handle on there Jim, to put it in reverse... Mine takes a bit of a slam to get it over into the reverse gate I sometimes have it in fifth instead of reverse. Also on mine even with the shifter reversed, shifting into reverse still pushes the console over ever so slightly. I should just make a new shift handle out of billet with a smaller thread for other shift knobs, something shorter that doesn't have the anti-vibration bushing in it so it would fit a bit better. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 MikeKZ, The bell housing and clutch assembly can be left in the car IF you remove the clutch fork from the slave. There are 6 bolts holding the bellhousing on. You may find that you have to put that assembly back in for it to be consistant. I'm just guessing at that one... Jim & All, I think somewhere on the tech article I wrote there is a pic of my shifter.. It is only three inches long. My trans shifts PERFECT into every gear including reverse... I have no idea why they made those shifters so darned long, other than the fact that they don't seem that long in the cars I have driven with them installed. Maybe they have a deeper trans tunnel than our Zs? Anyway, I run the Syncromesh fluid and my trans shifts into reverse, or any other gear without trouble... Jim, the reason your clutch assembly didn't give you any trouble is because your presure plate had the release bearing assembly already installed in it. Mine wasn't and nobody in the Fredericksburg area understood the reverse pull design of the system. That, combined with the balancer plate issue caused a grown man to lay in the floor and throw fits like a two year old... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno74Z Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Mike KZ, I own the '95 HELM manual on the F body and tried to see if a chart existed on troubleshooting the T56 but no luck. Lots of pictures and specs on how the thing goes together and should be serviced. (If you need any info on it let me know) I did go into the clutch section and a chart existed but your specific problem was not addressed. From you initial description; I personally don't think the tranny is at fault but the clutch IMO. Something is obviously binding in that area. Are you sure you’re getting total clutch disengagement? It is a known fact that the tolerances for this tranny/clutch arrangement are extremely critical with really no room for error. Your comment on the wheels spinning in neutral is a key point. Perhaps you could post this problem on one of the F-Body sites. With all the T-56's out there, maybe this is a more common problem then we think. Wait a minute (feel like HAL9000 accessing data) I did read a while back in GMHTech magazine that some replacement clutch plates are thicker then the original OEM plate and this is a definite problem with a 3/32" release distance - just a thought. Danno74Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 Make sure also that the pushrod is seated into the clutch fork. It is possible to bolt it up and it miss and wedge between the bellhousing case and the fork. It'll move but the clutch will be really stiff at the bottom and barely move. How do I know this... ahem... Yes I had to take my slave off and see WTF was going on. This may not be the case on yours but just something for people to check if they're going through a checklist of possible problems. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted July 9, 2001 Author Share Posted July 9, 2001 When I first got the tranny and it was on the floor, I tried to get in neutral and had a problem then. But I thought that this tranny had different caricatureistics than a 4speed. Once I had the tranny bolted to the engine and in the car, I still had trouble getting it in neutral, but again I thought maybe that the engine has to be running, and the clutch depressed for it to work. Once I got the engine running, it went into 1st and reverse no problem, I went up and down my driveway, and I thought everything is alright. Then it got stuck again . My clutch seems to work fine. Right now if I push the clutch in the rear, free wheels. Danno74Z, do you think you can email or fax me the pages on the T56? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 Mike kZ, I always try to buy an auto magazine off the newstands when I see it has a T-56 article. Took me awhile to find it, but here it is. The best article too date was in GM High Tech Performance Sept 2000 issue. In it they took a T-56 thru a tear down & rebuild session. The shop performing the R&R were T-56 specialist; they even offer a T-56 Tech.Manual for $20. I'ld give them a call/pose your question & order their manual. D&D Performance 49676 Martin Dr. Wixom, MI 48393 248.926.6220 They also sell used/new parts for the T-56; again their T-56 Tech.Manual is $20. Hope that gets you the help you need. IMO, if they cant help you/then no one can. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 Mike, Sounds like oyu have an internal issue. You may have to have that thing gone through... I'll take a look when I come out on Friday, but it sounds suspiciously like an internal Syncro/ gate/ rod issue... Mike Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted July 9, 2001 Author Share Posted July 9, 2001 Thanks Kevin, I'll try them! Mike, that's my thought too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 Hrm, but with clutch in the rear wheels spin. Sounds to me like it's not releasing and that you're stuck in gear. Stick moves fine or is "jammed"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted July 9, 2001 Author Share Posted July 9, 2001 It's definitly stuck in a gear, the stick moves fine. With engine off and in reverse, the reverse lights are on. The shifter rail must be disconnected inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 I dont know why I didnt think of it till reading the above posts...its just been som many years sine I've messed w/manal trans. Anyway-it seem pretty obvious that your trans likage in some manner has come loose. As you've mentioned-while up on jacks w/the engine on your wheels spin...which way do they spin-forwards or in reverse! Remember-your car will only move when the trans is in one gear as the countershaft in the trans can only spin in the counter rotation ratio of whatever [single] gear you have chosen. Therefore; if one of your linkages is broken & allowing a synchro to remain in gear-then when you shift & your shifter puts another synchro in another gear...the two gears are causing the counter gear to attempt to rotate in different speeds. The counter gear is a one piece unit-therefore it cant turn in two different speeds-or the engine will stall! You definately have internal shifter linkage prob's. Have you tried leaving the shifter in neutral & feathering the clutch pedal as you release it to see if the car will even move at all-if the car does move then you can determine what gear you're stuck in; that is is you have the elbo room to do this w/out worry of hitting other cars/passerbyers. If its stuck in a higher gear-this may not be such a good idea/weigh the consequences & by all means dont burn up your clutch or get your car stuck in such a manner that you cant turn it around & return home! After the few above posts-definately sounds like you have internal linkage problems and or, as Mike said, synco's acting up. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) [ July 09, 2001: Message edited by: Kevin Shasteen ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted July 10, 2001 Author Share Posted July 10, 2001 Kevin, if you re-read my original post, that's how I got it back in the garage. I left it in neutral possition and feathered the clutch to move forward into the garage. I think it was in a high gear, because I had to ride the clutch to get it moving, and I did smell some clutch burning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bayley Posted July 11, 2001 Share Posted July 11, 2001 Hey Mike, Sorry to hear about your tranny woes. I've been dreaming of manuals lately since I can't get mine to stop leaking... however, it doesn't sound like you're in any better shape than me. Don't know if this helps or not, but I once busted a 5 speed in a Mitsubishi Eclipse while powershifting into second. I missed the shift and broke the shifting fork inside the trans. The shifter still felt like it worked, but I only had fourth gear. Now this is what was weird... when every I tried to put the trans into any other gear besides fourth, I could feel two separate gears fighting against each other inside the transmission. If I was going to put money on anything, I would have to say that one your shifter forks (don't know how many a T-56 has) is misadjusted, bent, or possibly even broken. On a positive note, be glad the transmission your pulling isn't in an AWD econo box. Did that once before and it looks like I'll be doing it again soon. Good Luck -Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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