What to do after wet sanding?

[DuoWing]

Ok, here's a question that I'm curious about. I know wet sanding smooths the surface out, gets out dust, hair, or whatever has fallen in the paint. I also know that by having a smooth surface is how you get the surface to be more reflective/shiny. Anyway here's what I'm wondering after wetsanding my door with 600 grit paper. I try to use plenty of water and make sure the paper doesn't get clogged. Once I'm done and the door dries it looks like crap. You can see marks and the way the paint doesn't look too hot after all that sanding, but it'll be smooth. I also kinda judge by letting the water run over it, and seeing that it runs over even.

 

Now when you have water over it the color is bright, looks great, and is super reflective. Now is there any way to then polish that and make it look like how it looks when the water is run over it? Or do you just need to then lay another coat of paint at this point? I've heard of people saying that they've had really orange peely spots with their paint, then after wetsanding in the end it turned out to be the shiniest and best looking spot. Or can this only be done with higher grit? Oh also I only have like a cheapo 6" orbital buffer. That might be part of the problem? I'm mainly curious to see if I could get away with just wetsanding my orange peely paint and polishing it back, or if I'm going to have to wet sand it all down, then throw another coat or two on.

[kiwi303]

how fussed are you about a perfect showroom/concours shine? I've only re-done street cars not show cars, and I go down to 1600 grit wet paper, then use a cutting compound, followed by a polish and clearcoat wax. don't use a all-in-one cut'n'polish type polish, and skimping on the wax can ruin a fine job of polishing.

[Globerunner513]

When I wet sanded my car i used 1500# and then re sanded it with 2000#. Then I used a 3 stage buffing system. The first cut is used with a wool buffing wheel. Then the next 2 are used with foam buffing wheels.

 

You should search and read about color sanding and buffing techniques.

I'm guessing you are wet sanding after you sprayed the clear coat correct? There are ways to color sand each layer of base coat before the clear coat, but that is usually for higher end paint jobs.

The whole idea of wet sanding is to smooth out the CLEAR coat, without going into the paint.

If it still looks good when water is over it, that is a good sign. What you are trying to do is to sand out the orange peel. When you first start sanding, you will notice slight ripples or bumps in the area you sanded. You want to keep going until the surface looks uniform, but don't do one spot too much. You want to be sure not to bust through the clear coat, and have enough clear left over to protect the paint.

 

Don't apply any pressure when sanding either. Just let the sand paper do the work.

 

Now I am far from an expert, but I would suggest getting some higher grit sandpaper, like a 1500 or 2000 or even higher if you want. Sand until you can't see any scratches left over from the previous grit.

 

Then you'll want to take your buffing compound, and use a generous amount of it, and start buffing it in with an electric polishing wheel. Don't let it dry. Do small segments at a time, about a square foot section. When done, wipe it away with a clean dry cloth (I used a microfiber) and then continue.

 

There are some really good write ups on the site if you search for it.

 

Here's some pictures to help you get started. You want to be VERY careful with the edges, as they are the most vulnerable to being sanded through to paint. So I covered them with automotive painter's tape as i was sanding.

 

 

 

After polishing an area

 

 

 

[Globerunner513]

another trick i was told is to use just a tiny bit of dish soap in the water. This gives a nice slick surface for the sandpaper to run over, and also helps to clean the surface/sandpaper.

[240zwannabe]

globerunner513 did a great job explaining what to do. except i am an expert, i do this for a living. as you can see in some of the pictures he posted of the painted in sanded form, there is small spots of blue shine everywhere, for the best outcome you want to sand all that off. it will cause small spots of thicker texture than others if you don't. also, something that wasn't mentioned...you want to switch directions with your sand paper as much as possible, this will make the area look flat with so trace of "grooves" in the paint if looked at closely

[JSM]

You also need to dump the orbital and get a semi-decent buffer as shown above.

 

The buffer will help cut the paint, the orbital just pushes the wax around.

[240zwannabe]

You also need to dump the orbital and get a semi-decent buffer as shown above.

 

The buffer will help cut the paint, the orbital just pushes the wax around.

 

 

the buffer you have will do fine. the weight of the electric buffers makes it easier on you, although i use pneumatics on the daily. it's not the buffer you use it's the type of buffing pad.

[Globerunner513]

Thanks for clearing those things up 240zwannabe. Obviously I'm no expert so i'm glad someone with some professional experience chimed in on this one.

[DuoWing]

Thanks for the info guys. I see one of the problems is just the fact that I'm sanding with way too low a grit. Like I said I was using 600. I haven't one clearcoat on mine as I'm going the regular rustoleum method, but now it makes sense. Since you're smoothing the clear out. Very good info that I'll keep in mind.

[JSM]

the buffer you have will do fine. the weight of the electric buffers makes it easier on you, although i use pneumatics on the daily. it's not the buffer you use it's the type of buffing pad.

 

The pad makes some difference, but to get the deep luster he needs a decent buffer like Globerunner513 has.

 

http://www.automotivedetailing.com/assets/articles_htm/baffled_buffers.htm

 

High-Speed or Random-Orbital

There are primarily two types of buffers--high-speed rotary and random-orbital. The high-speed buffer's simple circular motion, combined with continuous high revolutions per minute (RPMs), causes friction at the point of contact with the paint surface, thus creating heat, which slightly softens the paint. This heating action allows for correction of extensive paint damage such as heavy oxidation and deep scratching; it also is one of the reasons why high-speed buffers can cause paint damage due to

improper use.

 

The wheel of a random-orbital buffer, on the other hand, operates with two separate motions: a slow circular motion combined with an orbital motion. That is, as the wheel spins, it also orbits slightly off-center around a central point (sort of like the Earth spins as it revolves around the sun). This action essentially imitates hand motion, making the random-orbit buffer virtually no more dangerous to use than your hands, yet much faster with increased consistency of results.

 

There are many differences also in the usage and results of high-speed rotary versus random-orbital buffers. As can be seen in Table 2, the primary difference is that, a high-speed rotary machine, once mastered, will produce absolutely the best results.

 

Random-orbital machines, even with the best products and most experienced technicians, simply cannot produce the high gloss and deep shine that is achievable with the high-speed machines. On the other hand, there is no comparison to the ease

of use of a random-orbital when it comes to application of final finish products such as waxes or sealants.

[DuoWing]

Quick question on the buffers. Where can you buy them, can you get one at a regular auto parts store?

[JSM]

Sears sells some, back in the day we always used the Makitas like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAKITA-9227C-X3-HD-POLISHER-BUFFER-Polish-Buff-Auto-Car_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQitemZ220287403656

 

You don't want anything much higher than 3000 RPM, otherwise you run the risk of burning the paint right off the car.

[Globerunner513]

^ yeah, on my buffer I have the speed turned down as low as it can go.

[240zwannabe]

The pad makes some difference, but to get the deep luster he needs a decent buffer like Globerunner513 has.

 

http://www.automotivedetailing.com/assets/articles_htm/baffled_buffers.htm

 

High-Speed or Random-Orbital

There are primarily two types of buffers--high-speed rotary and random-orbital. The high-speed buffer's simple circular motion, combined with continuous high revolutions per minute (RPMs), causes friction at the point of contact with the paint surface, thus creating heat, which slightly softens the paint. This heating action allows for correction of extensive paint damage such as heavy oxidation and deep scratching; it also is one of the reasons why high-speed buffers can cause paint damage due to

improper use.

 

The wheel of a random-orbital buffer, on the other hand, operates with two separate motions: a slow circular motion combined with an orbital motion. That is, as the wheel spins, it also orbits slightly off-center around a central point (sort of like the Earth spins as it revolves around the sun). This action essentially imitates hand motion, making the random-orbit buffer virtually no more dangerous to use than your hands, yet much faster with increased consistency of results.

 

There are many differences also in the usage and results of high-speed rotary versus random-orbital buffers. As can be seen in Table 2, the primary difference is that, a high-speed rotary machine, once mastered, will produce absolutely the best results.

 

Random-orbital machines, even with the best products and most experienced technicians, simply cannot produce the high gloss and deep shine that is achievable with the high-speed machines. On the other hand, there is no comparison to the ease

of use of a random-orbital when it comes to application of final finish products such as waxes or sealants.

 

i was referring to globerunner's buffer...and the pad make a huge difference.

[JSM]

i was referring to globerunner's buffer...and the pad make a huge difference.

 

Cool, were on the same page then! I was scared for a second, but just for a second!

[DuoWing]

I'm not sure what's good to go with. I've been looking at Sears's Website and I've noticed that most of the craftsment high speeds have a variable 1400 or 1650 RPM. I see they have a Clarke don't know if this is any good 7" High Speed with a variable 1000-3000 RPM.

 

I'd like to get one to start using. I see what you guys mean, my el-cheapo 6" orbital I got from the autoparts store really doesn't do much as far as helping me. I know it looked better after I really rubbed like crazy by hand. I mean it worked good for when I used some rubbing compound on oxidized paint, but I assume for any real polishing I need to go better.

 

While we're at it, can you guys give me advice as what to use when it comes to polishing? I've been using a microfiber bonnet and turtle wax. I used a wool bonnet when I was using rubbing compound.

[drwharton85]

Check out Meguiars they have alot of professional detailing products. http://www.meguiarsdirect.com/index.asp

[Globerunner513]

This is just what I used. It's what I was told to do by the guy who did my paint job. I started with a really heavy cut. You'll use a lot of it, so buying one of these isn't a bad deal. These are the products I used. Hopefully it gives you an idea of what to look for.

#1

Speed Cut Compound

Heavy cut to take out the sandpaper scratches. Used with wool buffing pad.

 

A mustard bottle worked out perfect to use and fill from the above posted tub.

 

 

#2

3M Perfect-It III 05930 Machine Glaze

Medium cut to take out the first cut. Used with foam pad.

 

 

 

 

 

#3

Swirl Free Polish

Final cut to take out swirl marks and any marks left from the medium cut. Used with foam pad

 

 

[DuoWing]

Thanks for all the info guys. I went ahead and purchased a high-speed buffer from Amazon.com. It had decent reviews, had variable speed settings and wasn't too expensive. I figured even if it's not the best high speed at least it'll be something to start out and learn with, I could eventually then go high end. I've been sanding and sanding away. I've got the paint smoothed out alot. It's super smooth and when I look at it, I don't see the orange peel. When the water is over it the reflection is very clear cut where before you could just see it wasn't a smoothe reflection. Now I've just got to bring the color and everything back. I've searched for some tutorials and stuff, so I'm ready to give it a shot.

[Tony D]

I have an old "Florida Pneumatic" buffer I got in the early 80's. Thing goes no faster than 1800 rpms, and has kept my hamfisted attempts at polishing successful. I tried a higher speed electric buffer. The results were not pretty. I stick to my FP, and pray I don't do something stupid.

 

I hate the final buffing task. With all the hours you put into doing it right up to that point (and I got that all pretty much down) the one thing I haven't even come close to mastering is power buffing of the final finish.

 

I get some of it done, and then usually take it to a professional detailer to finish for me. He says 'Oh man, you did great up to this point, why did you stop? You should have just kept on doing what you were doing!'

 

In my mind I hear: "Man, you stopped just in time, a couple minutes more and starting on those edges and I would have had a job I could have charged you hundreds to try and fix. As it is, all I can do is a 45 minute buff and brush and you're out the door cheap, mister!"

 

Spend a couple hundred hours over the course of a couple of months on a car and then burn the paint (mentioned above) on a FLAT surface...and it just ruins my whole day!