stony Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 That's cool i guess i will see. With the right bore finish, ring gaps ect ect shouldn't have a problem. We will see. Can't see how a company like this would stay in business if their product didn't work. not saying you guys did anything wrong.... there is a ton of neg feedback out there but there is also a ton of positive feedback. if it doesn't work oh well. guess i will tear it down and not use gapless again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatrate Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 They sell and manufacture OEM style rings and custom rings as well, so surely there not relying on gapless ring sales. There is a reason EVERY piston manufacture recommends the 2nd ring gap to be larger than the first.. I think you should try the gapless top.. I've contemplated trying the gapless top ring but that small ring that seals over it worry's me.. its so tiny and thin, Its like part of an oil control ring on top..eek!! FYI, i recently did a leakdown test on my motor, its been in the car since 09 and has seen some abuse. I really rattled it a while ago and lost a head gasket.. i did a leakdown test prior to replacing the head gasket... it was less than 3 percent on a cold engine.. impressive to say the least. I just hope you don't have issues, if you are contemplating changing, now is the time!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 Well I wasn't till I got all this negative feedback. For sure gonna call total seal and find out what the deal is. I'm also hearing that there are articles where total seal dosnt recommend gapless seceond. ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatrate Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Yeah let us know what you hear, hopefully they don't try and blow smoke up your ass.. I just don't want to see you have issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 So THEY say the reason people have issues is, 1. improper bore finish, 2. bad valve guide seals, all that is new on mine and the bore finish is correct. im gonna think about it a little longer. may just order a conventional second. BUT i really do not want to pull everything apart again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatrate Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Yeah see i'm still not buying that, the engine i had them in had a fresh cylinder head.. I could see the additional ring seal causing intake valve guide seals to leak more, but my smoking issue wasn't really happening on decel or idle much at all from what i can remember. However i will admit, i'm not sure if the bore was finished to what they recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatrate Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 So, what did you end up doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 I stuck with gapless seconds. I have done everything that total seal recommends. Bore finish, guids and guide seals, and gapped rings everything to their specs. I am still waiting on the head to be finished. It sucks getting any type of machine work done on this motor where I am nobody is really familiar with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatrate Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 What are you having machined? I have had a head and a block done locally, didn't seem like anything out of the normal when they did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 I dropped it off to have the valves done. After hand lapping I discovered that the valve gaps were way too tight. I don't know if I overlapped or if they were like that before. My suspicion is is they were very tight before which may have been causing my backfiring issues on the nitrous. At any rate about 3 or 4 days after I dropped the head off one of their main machinist quit and the other only machinist that was qualified to work on my head broke his arm. Then once he was back as he was pulling the guide seals out one of the valve guides came out with it. Not 100 percent sure of the accuracy of that. I have a small part of me that feels maybe this was just an excuse for the time it has taken. That head literally only has maybe a 50 miles worth of quarter mile passes on it. The head was built by Jun in Japan. Pretty sure they know what they're doing. It was supposed to be done Wednesday but I received no call planning on calling today for an update on why its not done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 to answer your question I drcked the head 2 millimeters, valve job and valve guide seals. That along with cylinder hone, and specific ring gap is the setup needed for success. .... we will see soon enough.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatrate Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Decked the head 2mm!!! I assume that's a typo..lol I'd be skeptical of anything claimed to be built by Jun or any other high end Japanese tuner, stuffs pretty rare over here.. unless you were there yourself, I remember you being Military. Hopefully you get it all worked out, I just got off the dyno again a week ago, just made 800whp!! Mines been pretty trouble free for 6 years, hopefully it stays that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Not a typo. Going hi compression on E85. If i didn't have bad luck i'd have no luck. After 2 months I got tired of waiting for my head to be finished. So today i picked it up from the machinist. In that time they cut valve seats. I got a dirty head back with 7 bad exh and 1 bad intake valve. oh well..... All the good valves are gaped and ready for install. just waiting on some more valves to show up. found a buddy who had some extras. Almost pulled the trigger on bigger valves and springs for hi RPm> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatrate Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I'm surprised you have enough piston to valve clearance to take that much off the head. What kinda quench clearance you run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 I was running a 1.2 mm hg before and had no power or torque below 5500rpm. Stock hg thickness is .9 something. Changed to 1.1 and shaved 2mm. This should put me close to stock clearances..... I think. Haven't measured anything yet. Once everything is cleaned and ready to install I will measure and verify clearances. If it's too tight I will do a thicker hg. I want to be in the 10 to 1 range for compression.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 And when I say no power..... at 4000 rpm I was at around 150 hp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatrate Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Problem with running thick or thin head gaskets is it effects quench clearance so much.. not an ideal situation.. getting the head surfaced right where you want it while accounting for head gasket thickness you can account for quench.. Do your pistons have a positive or negative deck clearance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Piston sits right at deck level. Again though, I have measured that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Still waiting on my dial indicator but eyeballing the the piston to deck... its just below being flush with top of the block. also the intake squish pad is removed on my head. Here is a pic i took the first time I rebuilt it. Here is a pic of the combustion chamber. This is an old pic before taking 2mm off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatrate Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Yeah, taking all that material off is going to effect cam timing too. looks like they might sit in a few thousands in the picture.. I dunno man, not sure i would have went that route, you took alot of "rebuildability" off that head. compression don't matter as much in a drag motor, just slam more boost down its throat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.