BLKMGK Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Do tell Pete! I wonder how easily that could be done to a full sized dash cap rather than a dash? I've got a spare half cap that I've been tempted to play with but the cost of playing with CF isn't cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 I'll premise my question by stating I'm a relative beginner in composites and have only done minor projects in fiberglass. I found it extremely difficult to get glass to lay down into compound curves and am wondering how that'll be accomplished on the Z's dash. The area's around the gauges and such I would think would be rather hard to do with a mat like material such as carbon fiber. Is it (carbon fiber) easier to work into compound curves without all the wrinkling? I'd agree that a stock type dash would be probably a better seller due to the type of people that might consider buying it. (although a Cap might work better for some that lack the skill (or aren't demented enough such as us ) to pull they're dash out of the car.) Just some observations, good luck with it. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mtj71Z Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 yeah but the cool thing about CF is the fact that it is shiny, no? i could do a dash cap, but i can hear people saying it doesnt fit right already. i knwo my dash cap didnt fit right on my 240. besdies, taking the dash off is so simple... im a new to cf too, but: basically the more curves an object has the more of a pain it is to carbon fiber it - but thats when the method is to just lay the fabric over the object. it can always be cut if it has to and still look uncut in the finish product - u can probably make the 240 vents out of carbon fiber if you do it the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Lone, the way I make it lay down in the curves is to paint the resin on to the cap and then lay the cloth down and soak it really good with more resin. This can become Quite messy at first but after you do it a couple of times, it gets a lot easier. After I get my drivetrain finished, I plan to start making fenders,hoods,and bumpers. Fiberglass is much less costly to work with than carbon fiber and aluminum and alot easier to fix if you make a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Locutus Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 Why not dye some glass cloth black to get the same look, if its not for a structural purpose could you tell the difference? Mike [ June 28, 2001: Message edited by: Locutus ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 Interesting thought,I don't know if the resin would have any affect on the dye. Lone, be sure to put a lot of baby powder on your arms and hands when you do resin work as it makes it less likely to stick to your skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 Les, Thanks for the tip, I'll have to give that a shot, and your right glassing in general is messy as all get out. I wear the gloves, but before I'm done I'm trying to keep the matting from sticking to me while I'm squeeging and then trying to get the next dry piece of glass and getting it laid down without it too sticking to my hand, haha.. Yeah carbon fiber isn't a consideration for a man of my fiberglass skills at this point.. I'd only use it if it were for a weight reducing purpose, to expensive for me at least for just decorative pieces, but I'll admit it does look very trick. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 I don't think that the majority would want stock in this group. 2 more guages would be great. I like the wrap around idea, and putting the most pertinent guages up front with the speedo and tach would be good, hell you do that and I'd be interested, I'm wondering why you want to use CF in the first place. I like the look, being able to see the mesh, but like Lone, I wonder how you'd get it to look right on those curves, and if you can't achieve that look why use CF for this application? Are you using CFs's advantages in any way? If you were to re-inforce it to the wieght of the origional dash and anchor it properly I bet it could be used to great advantage on convertable Z's like Mr. Washington uses for his Z kits at reactionresearch.com, but only for the torsional strength,I personally like padding on the dashes extrusions. I really think you're on to something if you plan to re-design the dash and market it at our level, If you did it right I'd be your first customer, but keep the priorities straight if you want to reach the daily driver. If I were in a crash I wouldn't want fiber chips exploding at me or the jagged edges cutting my pet monkeys nose(can't get him to wear a harness), but using the CF for the flat parts would be enough I think. Then again, before you get really serious and design installation plans and such, it might help if you were more specific in the "Thingamabobber"and"Hookumsnacker" dept. I'm not trying to be a smartass,Well I guess I AM being a smartass so I'll shut up now. WW∞ [ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: WebWalker ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mtj71Z Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 im just doing it for looks. i think it can go on the 240 dash. just wait and see. as for wrap around dash or any of the fancy stuff i dunno - i have to get a few originals made first, so i can buy more fabric. after all its just going to be me doing them by myself. cyas when im done thanks for all the input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 Hey mtj71Z, What part of Florida are you from? Anywhere near Orlando? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mtj71Z Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 port charlotte, its right above ft myers, orland is about 3 hrs i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 I think looks are very important! That's the only reason why I would put CF on my dash--keep up the good work and let us know how it turns out. I'm sure it'll look great if you take your time. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 30, 2001 Share Posted June 30, 2001 I must be an old fart - oh yeah, I am. But carbon fiber interior stuff generally doesn't do anything for me - it doesn't make the car any lighter, doesn't stiffen the car, and just makes me thing the owner wants to be part of the whole "look, I have a race car" scene that I am definitely not able to understand. To each his own. That said, putting SOMETHING over all those cracked up Z dashes that doesn't cost $400+ dollars (like Just Dashes wants) sounds like there'd be a market. I also think a dash pad should be that - a pad that gives. But I'd be willing to compromise on that. BTW, the way to get cloths like CF and fiberglass cloth to go around all the compound curves is to use REALLY lightweight weaves, pre-apply some resin, use a small roller on the cloth applied to the resined part, and use a vaccuum bag over the part to help get rid of the wrinkles. This helps get the air bubbles out as well. There are vacuum assisted resin transfer molding (VARTM) techniques that use special wicking materials and/or textured bags to make the resin flow, but these are usually proprietary methods. Anyway, the curves of the Z dash are pretty severe, and I'm not sure that even with the REALLY FINE weaves, it'd be possible to get it to lay down well even with these techniques - at least without ALOT of trial and error. Unfortunately, you'd have to get the person to ship their dash, or do it on an exchange basis, with plenty of various dashes over the years of the 240-280Z (lots to keep in stock). Plus, even within a particular year of a Z production run the dashes were made at various factories and they are not exactly all the same shape - this is why the dash caps that are out there don't fit well all the time. Just my luck mine doesn't fit well at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted June 30, 2001 Share Posted June 30, 2001 Pete, I'm inclined to agree with you, but I think that to a certain degree, prudent use of carbon fiber has a "tough" look to it. Yes, the boyracer image comes to mind and I would hate to think that I would be defecting to the rice camp. However, looking at that new Porsche Turbo and all that carbon fiber....I just said, "Yeah Baby!" I figured it would look good. Pete, you brought up valid points on trying to make a business of CFing dashes as a business. I think the only way to go for a business is CF caps over the whole thing. It is more practical, its removable, and most importantly, it's returnable... That said, I spied some "colored" CF (the fake stuff) in Summit Racing's rice catalog. I think that judicial use of it on interior pieces would make a great, albeit strange contrast with the grey CF (the only real color). Anyway, just my $0.02 Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 30, 2001 Share Posted June 30, 2001 I was wondering on the vacuum bag system too when I first saw this post. For structural parts using CF isn't the bagging system (along with the directional fibers and they're strategic placement) part of the whole system of making light strong parts out of CF. (and why the stealth fighter and bomber cost a gazillion dollars to build).. (I realize this is irrelevent to this discussion, just was curious on structural CF parts for no particular reason outside of knowing ). Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mtj71Z Posted June 30, 2001 Share Posted June 30, 2001 thats exactly why im not doing the caps. way too many types of dashes and problems shipping it back and forth, etc. besides, you would have to pull the dash to ship it anyway why not pull it to replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 30, 2001 Share Posted June 30, 2001 I guess if you send someone your dash you'd better be sure you want it! Kinda like a tattoo.... You guys never cease to amaze me in that someone in this group has such technickel knowledge on such a broad range of subjects. I have a question(s). CF is lighter than fiberglass I'm presuming, is it stronger? What happens to it when it is impacted or fractured, does it splinter like fiberglass? I don't really have a pet monkey, but why build a shotgun blast to the face into an already terrible situation if you are in a crash? (unless CF has some properties I don't know about) I'm speaking on presumption here and hope that I'm wrong and can keep an eye on development of this product! WW∞ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted July 1, 2001 Share Posted July 1, 2001 WW: Yes CF is stronger than fiberglass, but I really don't think it will shatter like fiberglass because its not as brittle, but I could be wrong. Here's one thing to ponder: if you are in a bad enough accident to shatter the dash, there will be not much left of you or your legs in that type of accident. The Z has a very long nose (better for crush area IMO) and if all that metal gets pushed up so far that the dash gives way...well, you can call it a lifetime as far as I'm concerned, because you'll be done. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted July 1, 2001 Share Posted July 1, 2001 Ounce for ounce CF should be stronger than 'glass and lighter too. It's used in aviation for this reason. It also conducts electricity so be aware of that when using it around electricals. If you're interested in learning more there have been some links posted here in th epast and there's also Aircraft Spruce and Supply who will mail you a GIANT catalog filled with goodies, including CF tools and materials, for FREE. It's a must have catalog IMO They have the bagging suplies an dmachinery BTW - it's used for wings and whatnot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 1, 2001 Share Posted July 1, 2001 quote: Originally posted by DavyZ: WW: Yes CF is stronger than fiberglass, but I really don't think it will shatter like fiberglass because its not as brittle, but I could be wrong. Here's one thing to ponder: if you are in a bad enough accident to shatter the dash, there will be not much left of you or your legs in that type of accident. The Z has a very long nose (better for crush area IMO) and if all that metal gets pushed up so far that the dash gives way...well, you can call it a lifetime as far as I'm concerned, because you'll be done. Davy Agreed Davy, with the setback of the chevy engine (on the hybrid V8s, you inliners might have to watch the engine go by you.. ), there is alot of crumple zone that is for sure. I doubt the dash is going to come to you unless you drive into a wall at a 100 or a head on with someone or something really crazy. And if your harness lets you go that far forward (maybe its those bungy brand harnesses? ) then you have a bigger problem than worrying about carbon fiber splinters, probably more worrying about if they can make you ever look like something human again. Just a thought. Be safe, Lone [ June 30, 2001: Message edited by: lonehdrider ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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