My new project: 1971 240Z

[240zip]

I added some pics of the rust repair on mine (scroll down)

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/96860-update-on-240z-restoration/

 

We drilled out the spot welds, removed rusted pieces, fabricated new pieces, and the put it back together. We used repair patch panels for pieces we couldn't fabricate. From your description, it seems your rust is more extensive and pieces to replace them will be more difficult to find. Ryan, the person who did my work, simply enjoys using the TIG set-up in the shop. If you were out in Colorado, I'd recommend him.

[Pharaohabq]

Hey Owen, Try not to worry too much. a good idea is to get the wire wheel out and hit all those areas that you're finding rust. Then apply some rust inhibitor of choice and primer the area or Por 15 it until you can get back to it. It seems that way at least you won't have to worry about the rust travelling furthor. As far as the bad areas, You can buy replacement panels from Tabco, MSA or I think Datsun Restore. They're not too hard to put in if you take your time and measure thrice. You'll need a welder low voltage and amperage to stitch the panels in place. There's threads on here all about it, and the You Tube videos are pretty good. It wouldn't hurt to consult a body shop. Granted you won't do a perfect job, but it's pretty easy to get passible results. Certainly better than rusting out.

 

Phar

[rturbo 930]

I added some pics of the rust repair on mine (scroll down)

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/96860-update-on-240z-restoration/

 

We drilled out the spot welds, removed rusted pieces, fabricated new pieces, and the put it back together. We used repair patch panels for pieces we couldn't fabricate. From your description, it seems your rust is more extensive and pieces to replace them will be more difficult to find. Ryan, the person who did my work, simply enjoys using the TIG set-up in the shop. If you were out in Colorado, I'd recommend him.

Cool, that's how I'd like to try to do mine. I never thought just slapping a flat plate over the hole was a good way of fixing rust, though sometimes I will admit it's sufficient as in the case of my floors. I really prefer the OEM look. And yes, while I agree my rust is more extensive, I don't believe it will be too much more difficult. For example, I don't believe my crossmember mounting points are rusted out, and the frame rail reinforcement behind it is mostly flat. What I am most concerned about is how to fix it. I don't know much about welding, etc., but I suspect that simply welding in a new piece by butt welding it may not be as strong as original, and may be prone to cracking due to the heat that went into the metal. I could certainly be wrong. Also, The edge of the metal often seems, to me, to be the weakest point to weld to, whereas with spot welds, there is metal all around the welding point, if that makes sense. What I am considering doing for the frame rail reinforcements is getting a strip of metal to spot weld behind the hole to serve as a reinforcement, and also something to spot weld the replacement piece to. That seems like it would be the best way to do it, but I really don't know. I'm even more concerned about fixing my C pillars since that is an integral structural part of the car. I don't want to make it too weak, or so strong that it doesn't flex, and ends up cracking. Anyways, it seems I've gone off on a tangent...

 

Most of my rust is in a mostly flat, unseen place, except the roll pan and hatch sill. There's also a dent I need to take care of, and the dog legs, and the top side of the C pillars I think is all that is actually body work.

 

Hey Owen, Try not to worry too much. a good idea is to get the wire wheel out and hit all those areas that you're finding rust. Then apply some rust inhibitor of choice and primer the area or Por 15 it until you can get back to it. It seems that way at least you won't have to worry about the rust travelling furthor. As far as the bad areas, You can buy replacement panels from Tabco, MSA or I think Datsun Restore. They're not too hard to put in if you take your time and measure thrice. You'll need a welder low voltage and amperage to stitch the panels in place. There's threads on here all about it, and the You Tube videos are pretty good. It wouldn't hurt to consult a body shop. Granted you won't do a perfect job, but it's pretty easy to get passible results. Certainly better than rusting out.

 

Phar

Yeah, I agree I should at least attempt to stop it from progressing further. It's a bit cold for paint, and I don't have a lot of time or money at the moment, but I think that'll be a project for when school gets out in May. I have already removed the driver's fender, and the cowl to remove pine needles and other debris since the car say outside for a while. Some of the fender mounting points were totally rotten, but aside from the firewall connection to the cowl, it doesn't seem to have done anything else. I've also wire brushed other parts of the car. I am aware of the patch panels from Tabco and MSA. I have doglegs from Tabco that were intended for my 280Z, as well as a rocker, but the two other pieces I got, the rear lower quarters I was pretty disappointed with. I know MSA sells the roll pan I need, but it's 16 gauge, and the other panels are 18. I think I'm being too picky, but I'd prefer pieces made from 20 gauge, but I'll probably end up buying them anyhow. I would just prefer 20 gauge since in thicker steel, the edges won't be as sharp. I also have a Lincoln MIG welder, and many tools my father, grandfather, etc. have collected over the years, so I'm pretty well covered there. It's the skills I don't have (yet).

 

Thanks a lot for the input guys. It's appreciated. Sorry if I rambled, haha.

Edited December 8, 2010 by rturbo 930

[rturbo 930]

I was home today so I took a few pics to show you guys what I'm dealing with.

 

Pass. rocker, A pillar, and dogleg:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Driver's side rocker, A pillar, and dogleg:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a couple of the firewall:

 

 

 

Pass. side roof where the quarter window is:

 

 

And last, the rust in the wheel well seam I was talking about. This is on the driver's side only. It was a bit hard to photograph, but I hope they show it well enough:

 

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2010 by rturbo 930

[rturbo 930]

Exhaust is done, new tach is in, replaced my fan controller. Got a new driver's lower door hinge and RT diff mount + bump stop, but haven't installed either yet.

 

Video:

 

Edited January 4, 2011 by rturbo 930

[Pharaohabq]

Well that is a lot of rust, but really to me it looks like most of it is surface, cept for a few obvious points. That lincoln welder might be fine for fixing things up.

 

First things first though. Get a flat blade screwdriver, and press on various points in the rusted areas. if the screwdriver easily dents, or pushes through the rusted area, then you'll need to replace. If not, then a good sanding and repainting w/ rust inhibitor will do wonders. Especially out east, you don't want to leave bare metal exposed, so even a can of primer will work wonders to keep things from rusting between work sessions. Use a grinder with a wire wheel to get into most of the bad areas. you'll also need to sand back the paint a few inches since rust travels under the paint, not to mention you can't weld to paint.

 

The MIG welder doing stitched butt welds is the normal way that people replace panels. The stitching keeps the panel from heating too much and warping. the butt welds when ground down are pretty easy to smooth. You don't really need any metal behind the panel. (that could actually catch water and rause it to rust again) Be sure to seal both the front and back of any repairs.

 

You're fighting a lot of rust, so I'd recommend you go with the wire wheel ans screwdriver to see what really needs to be replaced, and what can just be cleaned up.

 

I'd actually recommend too that you take a beginner welding class at a community college/trade school, if that's possible. You'll really learn a lot, though it's not brain surgery. You'll know what a good weld looks like, compared to a weak one. Usually they're cheap, like $40 bucks for the whole class.

[rturbo 930]

I did the screw driver test on the driver's rocker, and came up with two holes (seen in pics, one at the front, one at the rear). Passenger side appears to be solid. Those were the only really questionable areas. And yes, you are correct, it's a lot of rust, but none of it is very severe (IMO). It's just a lot of work.

 

Good call on the welding class. I know enough about welding to know I don't know how to weld well enough for auto repair. A lot of my questions about metal fatigue, etc. would also be answered there as well.

Edited January 5, 2011 by rturbo 930

[rturbo 930]

I got my 280Z doors on with a new lower hinge on the drivers side, and the old hinges on the pass side. The driver's side door lines up alright, although it needs a shim or two. with the latch and everything on, it sticks IN a little bit, as opposed to 1/4" out like it did before. The passenger side is a problem, however. The top of the door on the front sticks out about 1/16" with NO shims. The rear is sticking out about 1/4" and won't latch. The bottom of the door is about where it should be. I'm going to mess with it a bit, but, any ideas guys? I don't know how to make a door go in 1/8" when the hinge is already there. I don't want to modify the hinge either. That just does not strike me as a good idea.

 

The front I'm probably going to leave alone, but the rear... well I'll let the pics speak for themselves.

 

These are rust free doors, BTW. I looked, and I saw no sign of rust, cracks, etc. I don't see how three corners can be near-flush and one corner 1/4" + off.

 

Edited January 14, 2011 by rturbo 930