GrayZee Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 I was just curious, what kind of opinions do you guys have about front wheel drive? How many of you think that "Fwd" and "performance" are two words that should not be used in the same sentence? Ha ha ha.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 I have owned both kinds (FWD & RWD) and I can tell you that RWD is more fun IMO. There are those that will disagree with me, telling me that if I only 'learned to drive' a FWD car I would do better, but I am not impressed. RWD for me anytime! Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 i love rwd, and i think fwd makes a good driving car, rwd for racing purposes. when it comes down to it i like rwd for a lot of reasons,but i also think maintenance wise, you ever try to hit the timing belt on a civic? alternator? do a clutch? its a whole different world under the hood, a world that i dont want to enter too soon...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perry Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 FWD is ok, better in snow and all that, But I love oversteer. Therefore rwd will always be preferred for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 With modern cars the "feel" has more to do with suspension and chassis tuning than drive location. Under about 300hp a FWD race car can get around a track as fast as a RWD race car. Look at World Challenge Touring for the best example. Although the BMW's won the manufacturing championship Klienubing's Integra won the driver's championship (and Acura won the previous year.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Adkins Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 The only cars I have ever spun 180 degrees on ice during the winter are FWDs-- my old Subaru RX turbo in fwd mode and my mom's Olds Omega (with her in the car ).All happened when trying to make a quick stop to avoid cars that suddenly stopped in front of me. Pretty scary... All my other cars have been RWD and I never had that problem with them. They always seem to slide in a straight line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Adkins Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 quote: Originally posted by johnc: With modern cars the "feel" has more to do with suspension and chassis tuning than drive location. So with proper suspension tuning, the FWD weight distribution problem (nose heavy) can be eliminated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 I suppose its what you like to drive, I'm partial to rearwheel drive as well. Likewise the only cars I've spun in the rain were FWD'ers, at least with RWD I can usually catch it and steer out, maybe its just technique, but I know what I like. I'm also not fond of the typical torque steer associated with FWD. I know it can be tuned out to a great degree, but the more HP you add, the harder it makes it to totally tune out. I just can't deal with it trying to rip the wheel from my hands. If I were racing and rules were open to which wheel drive, I'd choose RWD or Mid engine and FWD definitely last. *shrug* Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 > So with proper suspension tuning, the FWD > weight distribution problem (nose heavy) can be > eliminated? The weight distribution on a FWD car doesn't have to be a "problem", its just something you have to account for in tuning. Porsche has done similar things with the rear weight bias on their 911, 993, and 996. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted January 10, 2002 Author Share Posted January 10, 2002 Well I am glad to see that I'm not the only one that is stuck in the past! Sadly it seems that FWD is 90% of the car market these days. The only true advantages that I see in FWD is that it is a compact design and therefore LIGHTER than a similar RWD car also there would be less friction in the drivetrain because of the added size and weight of the MOVING parts. This would also contribute to better mileage. When it comes to driving on snow and ice I have plenty of experience, and while FWD is good for traction while accelerating I don't trust them when it comes to emergency situations. A front drive dosn't lose traction easily, but when it does.. it is very hard to recover. The disadvantages that have been mentioned, torque-steer, understeer and tight engine compartments. There is also matter of weight transfer under heavy acceleration (to the REAR wheels) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Adkins Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 quote: Originally posted by johnc: The weight distribution on a FWD car doesn't have to be a "problem", its just something you have to account for in tuning. Porsche has done similar things with the rear weight bias on their 911, 993, and 996. I see.... I was curious because it ties in with the debate that many people have had over scarab vs. JTR engine positioning. According to a lot of people the scarab mounting position makes the weight distribution worse, and in doing so, makes handling worse. But then with proper suspension tuning that takes into account the front weight bias I guess the weight distribution thing wouldn't be an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 i think you can tune it out, i prefer the overly active crabwalk you get in scarab, im a cowboy at heart, my car does not have a handling problem in wet or dry. ive got a pretty stiff suspension though, nothing hasnt been replaced or upgraded by yours truly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 > According to a lot of people the scarab > mounting position makes the weight distribution > worse, and in doing so, makes handling worse. > But then with proper suspension tuning that > takes into account the front weight bias I > guess the weight distribution thing wouldn't be > an issue? If you use the all qualifying term, "all things being equal" then a good argument can be made that the Scarab mounting position will not handle as well as the JTR mounting position. Unfortunately, the "all things being equal" qualification is generally used by engineers (and philosophers) when they are exploring some bit of minutia or trying to shoot down someone else's assertion. We all know that all things are never equal. If I was building a V8Z from scratch then I would go with the JTR mounting position. If I already had a Scarab conversion, I would spend the money on a great suspension and make the JTR conversion owners eat their words. The same applies to the FWD vs. RWD debate. Michael Galati or Pierre Klienubing in a Real Time Racing Acura Integra would make 99.999999% of us in our HybridZs look like loosers on any road racing track in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 Those FWD racers often use a left foot braking technique when driving through a corner to get a higher cornering speed, not something for everyday use. FWD's (and rear engine/drive) also have lower power losses through the transmission, which gives them a slight edge. My everyday car is FWD, the only problem with it is a lack of instant traction when taking off in a hurry, bloody annoying when you are trying to slot into heavy traffic. And, yes, major servicing......... aaagh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baldwin Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 Performance cars on dry and damp pavement definitely want to be rwd, not fwd. NO amount of "tuning" can change the facts that: a) the driven wheels are UNloaded during acceleration, leading to absurd weight distribution designed-in just to ensure acceptable drive traction is maintained (like 65/35 F/R) c) for neutral handling this requires the heavy front end be less stiff in roll than the lightweight rear, which must be much more stiff in roll, ensuring that d) in a given turn the outside rear is overworked and the inside rear isn't doing anything, meaning e) total lateral tire grip suffers Yes, there are successful fwd race cars, and yes a well-prepared fwd car beats a less well-prepared rwd car of equal lb/hp. RWD is still the clearly superior architecture compared to fwd for a race car on dry and even damp tarmac. "All things being equal" Yeah, I know they never are, but why start out with such an inherent disadvantage? Ever seen a fwd FSAE car? That's because with a clean sheet of paper design the ENGINEERS-to-be that design and build them KNOW better! Without a clean sheet of paper, the unfortunate fact is that there aren't many lightweight rwd platforms (then again, there are fewer and fewer lightweight fwd platforms every year, too!), so sometimes the INHERENTLY EVIL fwd compromise is accepted in order to have a lighter race car. Long live the Z! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZROSSA Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 I have to say that i am also a rear wheel or four wheel drive person as well. It drives my wife mad when its time to get a new set of wheels. "Thats a nice car" no , front wheel drive. "Arrrggggg". So she now has a full time four wheel drive legacy turbo, Still not as fun as pure rear wheel drive but a happy compromise. I belive that front wheel drive owes its existance to cost and ease of manufacture. The whole drive train just slots in from underneath on the assemble line. This saves money. Car makers love that. Fun can be had in front wheel drive cars. When I worked for other people and had co. cars they were always f/wheel drive. Left foot braking, tossing the car into corners while still on the brakes and the old hand brake made for a bit of fun. There wasnt much you could due on high speed corners though. One other thing to ponder, When the british turing cars where at there hight the front wheel drive cars where given a weight brake of around 50 kg over the rear wheel drive cars. In NZ and Aussie the championship winners where always rear wheel drive or four wheel drive despite the extra weight. Cheers Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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