Guest Anonymous Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 now that i have your guys attention i want to know who out there is runnin the funny stuff in their street samurais. i've been wonderin about runnin NOS on my beast when it is done but i would also build up the bottom end for a hefty dose of it. I don't plan on using it very often at all, just when i really want to rub somebody's face in it i've done all the reading i can easily find on the net about it but nothing is a better teacher the first hand learning. so you guys out there what do you think the best system would be to run maybe a 150-200 shot? NOS, edelbrock, nitrous works?? from what i've read if you treat it right you don't have to worry about hurtin the motor. the formula for a good shot of it was 50% of what your motor does naturaully, am i correct? what was your guy's experiance with it? will i need special rings to help prevent blowby under the increased pressure load on the piston? and the all important is it worth it???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 I need NOS. Two bottles. Also, some Motek exhaust. sorry, couldn't resist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted July 8, 2001 Share Posted July 8, 2001 I've run 125 (PowerShot) on nearly stock engines with great results. Currently a 100 shot dropkicks my Z from a 12.90@107 to a 11.75@116. I prefer NOS cause i have a solenoid still working fine with only one rebuild from a USED(!) system i bought in 81'!!!! (Still used on the car i sold my cousin (low 10's). Not that i recommend it but I have run the big jets in a Cheater system (200 to 250 shot) on a cast piston motor without hurting it. The key you ask??? DO NOT RUN LEAN! I had a good fuel delivery system. Typical improvements i have gained over the years... V8 Vega 13.0 to a 11.61@116 69' Chevy truck low 14's to 13.0 74' Nova 12.17 to 10.87 66' Chevy II 10.50's to high 9's. 87' Turbo Regal 12.23 to 11.77. I good system would be a NOS Super Powershot to cut your teeth on. Start with the smaller jetting and work up watching the plugs and fuel pressure. Or if you build a stout one gp directly to a Cheater and start with the smaller jets. Have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted July 8, 2001 Share Posted July 8, 2001 Oh yeah...one more thing. On compression, you can ran high compression ratios but be aware that you will need to safegaurd against detonation. I run pump gas on this engine as it is a low comp motor that doesn't ping and knock on todays gas. The Nova i had I could run the 1st stage (125hp) on pump gas but i wasn't willing to risk the 2nd stage (250hp) without good fuel. It was close to 11 to 1 but had good flame travel tendencies with a flat top motor. Good fuel pressure along with adequate volume AND no detonation and you can run a fairly substantial shot! If you have these two things covered and something else lets go then you really can't blame the nitrous. [ July 07, 2001: Message edited by: RickB ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2001 Share Posted July 8, 2001 I read some good advise on building a good nitrous or turbo'ed/supercharged motor: Build the best naturally aspirated motor you can, using high quality components, then add the turbo, nitrous etc to that. Coming from nizpro who build 700hp+ turbo/nittrous assisted RB30's for the street its not bad advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2001 Share Posted July 8, 2001 I want to try the gas too afer I had maxed out on my regular motor. I may have done that. I feel that my engine is up to the task with a 4 bolt main, 6 inch eagle rods and JE flat tops, block has been o ringed. Now a few questions for the experienced... How much timing retard do you need to run? Should you change camshafts to somthing with a little more exaust duration to help bleed off a little cylinder pressure. Or would switching to 1.6 rockers on the exaust side do the same trick? What about torq converter? I have heard that one with anti ballooning plates was required. I dont even know what this is. If my car runs low 12 at 113-114 with a best of 11.95. on moter what should I expect with the gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 8, 2001 Share Posted July 8, 2001 Check RickB's car out he uses it and has gone into the 11's: http://www.rickb.racemail.com/ Any motor built with a power adder in mind is basically the same with the exception of the compression ratio. Blower and Turbo motors use low compression pistons to get more boost before they detonate and thus more power without damage. I would use Hyperuetectic pistons minimum, but would rather see forged pistons and bottom end if your going to blow or juice a car. Its just insurance that will pay off with the extra load put on the engine. Lean mixtures and pressures causing detonation are the big killers of engines. A good fuel pump will be a must on a juiced motor to insure your getting enough added fuel with the NOS shot so you don't lean it out to much and destroy the engine. Those are the basics as I know them, the NOS users can give pointers as to how much and the specifics.. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 quote: Originally posted by bubafett: I want to try the gas too afer I had maxed out on my regular motor. I may have done that. I feel that my engine is up to the task with a 4 bolt main, 6 inch eagle rods and JE flat tops, block has been o ringed. > you certainly have some stout parts so you are good to go (fast) in that area... > Now a few questions for the experienced... How much timing retard do you need to run? > that would depend primarily on the "shot" of juice along with your compression ratio. Assuming you run 36 degrees total without getting knock then you should be able to safely handle a 125 shot w/o taking timing out. Each jet change from there you can take about 2 degrees out > Should you change camshafts to somthing with a little more exaust duration to help bleed off a little cylinder pressure. Or would switching to 1.6 rockers on the exaust side do the same trick? > you can use "nitrous grinds" or keep your car thumping like it is. The juice will still hit hard. You just may not optimize with the squeeze on. I have used 1.6 rockers on the exhaust side as you stated in the past. > What about torq converter? I have heard that one with anti ballooning plates was required. I dont even know what this is. > that is primarily to handle the extra (and almost instant!) power of the nitrous. With the lightweight of a Z car you "should" be OK without the "nitrous" convertor. I have never used one specifically built for nitrous though i have purposely used rather tight convertors to take advantage of the superior torque of the nitrous. > If my car runs low 12 at 113-114 with a best of 11.95. on moter what should I expect with the gas? > a simple small solenoid 125hp shot should net you 6/10's or maybe more. Assuming you have the gearing for it your mph should increase 6+mph. I AM BEING CONSERVATIVE > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 hey rick, i got another quick question for ya. the way that i want to set up the nos on my car is to have a master switch somewhere in the cab that "arms" the system and then run a micro switch on the throttle that kicks it on when i hit WOT. what ignition systems out there have a function that will automatically retard the timing "X" degrees upon WOT? i would like to run something like this so i can still keep the optimum timing for N/A when i'm not running the liquid go fast. also from your experiance i would like to know ust how much attention you have to pay to the car when it hits? will i have problems trying to keep a 200 shot under control when it first hits?? i mean i don't plan using it right in the middle of a tight turn but what should i expect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 Hrm, there are several ignition boxes out there that have timing control. MSD, Accell, Holley all have them. I think MSD may even make a box that just pulls timing - hook it's power to a microswitch and you ought to be good to go There's a couple of ways to do this... 200 horse shot? Umm, I think I'd stat with 75 and work upwards. Seriously, the hit is instant! I once rode in a car with a big hit, possibly over 200. At about 5mph in 1st it fried the tires, same thing in 2nd (still 5mph), 3rd, 4th, and ouch - we did 5th! We never got the car over about 20mph! The power delivery was simply sick - instant power that would fry the tires on command. Needles to say this guy couldn't juice it out of the hole and is the same guy I mentioned elsewhere racing bikes and winning. Car that gave him the best run on the back then was an EFI Vette that also was juiced (lol). I'm SERIOUSLY considering a bottle for my car too but I'll sneak up on the power and if I want as much as 200 I'll probably go 2 stages. There's just no sense in abusing the drivetrain with that had a hit IMO. Stub axles, halfshafts... I think I want them all in one piece Keep the NOS advice coming guys, I'm all ars. I'd also be VERY interested to learn how to best hide it in a Z install. I'm thinking LONG lines to remotely mounted solenoids and maybe some heater hoses. I don't mind a softer hit from the gas rather than liquid NOS and I could always prime it if I wanted... There's a couple of good books out there on this stuff BTW guys, not sure where my copy is though (grr). Heh, I need NOS, no TWO bottles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 Just a side note on the activation at WOT. The automatic 240z's have a switch on the gas pedal assembly that might be able to be used (hav'nt looked at a manual but suspect the hole is probably there for the switch already). It was used as a kickdown switch. Not sure if the 260 and 280's were the same, but suspect they are. FWIW. As far as hiding it, they make NOS units that are piped under the manifold and come in from the back close to the firewall it would be easy to hide. Obviously these are more expensive. Regards, Lone [ July 09, 2001: Message edited by: lonehdrider ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 I've considered a switch under th epedal, probably as accuate if not more so than trying to geegaw one on the carb I also know about hiding lines under the manifold for port injection systems - bux! If I were building a sleeper street racer I'd consider it (NOS inunder the passenger seat anyone? lol). I dunno, will drive the car as-is first before I get real excited with NOS. I've got a feeling I'll have my hand's full getting used ot it as it stands anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 good idea on the staging the NOS there blkmgk. now that i think about it i will try to set it up that way. i think NOS themselves sells kits the are two stage don't they? what i plan doing is using it to help my top end. i probably won't use at anything other than highway speeds or the occasional smackdown on the street . i don't think that i would want to light up the tires at 100+ that might be just a little too much. I plan on starting out small when i get the kit (75 shot like you said) i just figure that if i'm goig to build a motor to hanlde nitrous easily than i better get the most out of it...safely of course. i,ve only been in one car wreck and that was enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 9, 2001 Share Posted July 9, 2001 Jim, considering your running probably 200+ horses more than I am, trust me when I say you will have your hands full on a non-squeezed Z of your caliber. Mine goes to 5k like a shot, and I know yours is gonna haul ass. Probably closer to the V8 Vega but better balance as far as power to weight ratio's go. Of course, after a while of getting used to it, a little giggle juice for the car just might be the ticket Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 I have done nice installs of micro switches on the carb linkage before. I prefer to fab my own bracket and use a micro switch (from Radioshack) that has a roller tip as it is much less prone to bending and hanging (experience!). Call MSD and yes, they can hook you up as far as tying the retard in with switch activation. I highly suggest starting with an adjustable SuperPowershot. When you are ready to upgrade NOS sells a very nice kit to upgrade to a dual stage (I've done it and i am not a guru). The kit comes with real sweet relays so as to kill the first stage when the 2nd is activated, etc. I had my Nova set up to launch on the 1st stage at WOT, the shifter handle "button" took care of the 250 shot. If I liffted the throttle that would kill the system as it was all connected through NOS supplied relays. When and how much N20 you can run depends wholly on your combination. My car charges hard hitting the manually operated button a moment after the front wnd lifts (and the rear squats). Keep us up to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 quote: Originally posted by BLKMGK: I once rode in a car with a big hit, possibly over 200. At about 5mph in 1st it fried the tires, same thing in 2nd (still 5mph), 3rd, 4th, and ouch - we did 5th! We never got the car over about 20mph! > ya' gotta let the tires plant FIRST!!! > Keep the NOS advice coming guys, I'm all ars. I'd also be VERY interested to learn how to best hide it in a Z install. I'm thinking LONG lines to remotely mounted solenoids and maybe some heater hoses. I don't mind a softer hit from the gas rather than liquid NOS and I could always prime it if I wanted... There's a couple of good books out there on this stuff BTW guys, not sure where my copy is though (grr). > I've never done the full on hidden system but...I have hidden bottles in a hulled out drink cooler Also, i have used a second "hidden" bottle so i could "unhook" my big bottle for a money race. (don't try this at home kiddie's). Now...I just mount it where i can open the bottle Heh, I need NOS, no TWO bottles! > BWAHAHAHAHA..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bayley Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 No Jim, you need two B-I-G tanks! Wow, I step away from the world for a few days and look at all the good stuff I miss It sounds like everyone is having the itch to do things "fast and furious" ... or is that rice and ridiculous? I've been spraying for about 5 years now and I've never once regretted it. I once saw a neat NOS (pronounced En-Oh-Ess) T-shirt that said "Only losers call it cheating." That statement could not be any more true. Yes, I got a lot of crap from people about running the bottle, but most all of this comes from people who are not spraying themselves and/or are slower than those who are spraying. Bottom line: N20 is quick, easy and inexpensive. Here is a break down of the vehicles I've had N20 experience with: 1987 Cavalier Z24 (2.8L) 16.1 @ 87 vs. 15.0 @ 93 1996 Impala SS (350 LT1) 14.9 @ 94 vs. 13.6 @ 101 1978 Malibu (383 sbc) 12.5 @ 110 vs. 11.4 @ 118 1974 260Z (350 sbc) 12.5 @ 110 vs. 11.3 @ 120 The big thing that eerked me about "that movie" is the idea that N20 will really help out at high speeds. I find the exact opposite. N20 greatly increases the torque while launching, but the upper R's don't seem to benefit as much. Of course, this is all with a 125 shot on my Datsun. I think this is why many people run dual stage kits. Not so much to get "more" out of the upper end... but because they simply don't need (or can't use) the extra power down low. As for hiding the kit under the hood... The carb setups are pretty limited with what you can do. I personally re-bent the original line that went to the plate and tried to hide the solenoids underneath the air cleaner a little better. I did a pretty good job on the rear N20 solenoid, but the front fuel solenoid is in plain view. Oh well, I took the "NOS" stickers off from my solenoids though... most people now don't have a clue what these funny looking brass solenoids are. I like to tell people I have two fuel inlets because I run a "double pumper". It fools some of them. Check it out:Fourth row down, picture on the right. -Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted July 12, 2001 Share Posted July 12, 2001 Only Andrew would put nitrous on a 2.8L Cavelier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Night_rider_383 Posted July 12, 2001 Share Posted July 12, 2001 Nos is cheap hp thats a given. It's not that hard to put in. It can drop your e/t over base line by .5 to 3 full sec or more depending on how much your spraying. Some will call it cheating some won't. Myself i don't call it cheating but i don't ans won't run it cause of many reasons. I might just be 19 but im set in my ways already lol and i look at it like this (dont mean to dump on anyone or there combo and dont mean to start a war)but if you know what your doing and you build the engine its self right with good hp you wont need nos. I ran down many nos powered cars with my gas engines no power adders. I just feel nos is away to make a sloe car fast (now dont get me wrong i know theres alot of fast cars that runs nos just to make sure they dont lose).If you gonna go power adder myself i would pick a blower over nos any day. Now the blower is gonna run alot more at 1st to set up over nos but the engine work if your doing it right will be the same price for all the strong parts. In the long run 2-4 years the blower is cheaper than nos cause of all the bottle refills where the blower you dont need that. The blower 9 out of 10 times will run down the nos powered car on the top end with an e/t off .15 to .70 secs faster. Now don't let what i said change anyones mind. This is just my out look on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted July 12, 2001 Share Posted July 12, 2001 What Night_rider_383 said. I'd rather have a blower than a bottle any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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