Need some advice about possible 71 V8 purchase

[LHD]

Hi all. Ive spent the last 5 days absorbing as much of this site as possible. There really is a ton of info here. I've got to say this is an incredible resource on the subject.

 

Sunday I'm going to look at a 71 240z. The guy has 4 project cars and decided to sell off a couple to make room in his garage. I've always wanted a V8 Z car but never had the opportunity. I was wondering what you guys thought was a good price for the car.

 

If everything is as he says the drive train has less than 5000 miles on it since he rebuilt it. The engine and transmission are out of an old corvette, both fully rebuilt and put in the Z. The R180 was serviced (seals, fluids etc) as well. After the break in period it dynoed just over 475 hp and I think he said 400 ft/lbs tq. Here is his description.

 

1971 DATSUN 240Z STREET ROD WITH ALOT OF MODS 1968 CORVETTE 327 ENGINE WITH M21 MUNCIE ROCKCRUSHER 4 SPEED CORVETTE TRANS (LESS THAN 5.000 ON TOTAL REBUILD) REBUILD INCLUDES

ALL FORGED PARTS INCLUDING 10.5-1 COMPRESSION PISTONS

DOUBLE HUMP HEADS STEEL CRANK CRANE CAM

CRANE GOLD SERIES ADJUSTABLE ROCKER ARMS

PETE JACKSON GEAR DRIVE

EDELBROCK VICTOR JR INTAKE

HOLLEY DOUBLE PUMPER 750 CARB

DUAL REMOTE-MOUNT OIL FILTERS

MILODEN OILPAN

WORKING COWL INDUCTION

COATED AND WRAPPED HEADERS TO DUAL SUPERTRAPP MUFFLERS

OTHER NEW PARTS ALTERNATOR AND BATTERY

MALLORY POINTLESS DISTRIBUTER

CRANE CAM FIREBALL IGNITION

BRIDGESTONE POTENZA TIRES

RIKEN RIMS

ELECTRIC FAN (SUPPLEMENTAL)

CLUTCH INCLUDING MASTER CYLINDER AND FLYWHEEL

 

ALSO HAS

125 SHOT NITROUS/FIRE EXTINGUISHER/OIL COOLER

RECARO SEATS WITH 4 POINT SEATBELTS

4 POINT ROLLBAR

CUSTOM COILOVER SHOCK SUSPENSION WITH STIFFER SPRINGS

HEAVY DUTY FRONT AND REAR SWAY BARS

FRONT STRUT TOWER BAR

TOTAL FRAME REINFORCED

PANTERA HATCH

REAR SPOILER

SHAVED FIREBIRD TAILLIGHTS

SHAVED DOOR HANDLES WITH POP LOCKS

 

He told me the fenders, hood, nose and hatch are all fiberglass. Several parts are custom.

 

Let me know what you guys think and if there is anything in particular I should check out.

[jt1]

Welcome to HybridZ.

 

Buying any Z, the first thing is the condition of the chassis. Most of them have some rust, or have some rust repair. Make sure you can fix any rusty areas to your satisfaction, or the existing repairs are up to your standards. Doing stuff over is always expensive. Common areas to look are the battery box area, the floorboards, the doglegs in front of the rear wheels, and the area around the rear of the hatch. Take a magnet to look for bondo or fiberglass.

 

Looks like some nice parts. If it's a true 10.5 : 1 with iron heads, it's gonna be borderline to run on pump gas. You may have to mix in some race gas to keep it from detonating. That's OK if it's a track only car, but aggravating and expensive for a street car. It would be pretty optimistic for double hump iron heads to make 475 hp unless they've had some porting work. However, with some porting it's quite possible.

 

With a non overdrive transmission, you turn a lot of rpm at highway speed. 3:54 is the most common gear ratio, which means you will probably be doing 3000-3500 at 60-65 mph. That's OK for some people, not OK for others. Drive it at highway speeds to check the cruising rpm.

 

A R180 isn't going to last long with a good V8. Plan on upgrading to a R200 pretty soon.

 

Lots of good buys out there right now. Check around and don't overpay in today's market. If you smell BS, it's probably there somewhere.

 

What are your plans for the car? Street cruiser, drag car, road course car, or some combo?

 

jt

[MONGO510]

If I recall correctly, the trany that was refered to as the "Rock Crusher" was the M-22. The M-22 was considered pretty much indestructable back in the day!

If it is a true "Rock Crusher", It will make very obvious whining noises as You accelerate.

Best check on that!

 

Mongo

[LHD]

Welcome to HybridZ.

 

Buying any Z, the first thing is the condition of the chassis. Most of them have some rust, or have some rust repair. Make sure you can fix any rusty areas to your satisfaction, or the existing repairs are up to your standards. Doing stuff over is always expensive. Common areas to look are the battery box area, the floorboards, the doglegs in front of the rear wheels, and the area around the rear of the hatch. Take a magnet to look for bondo or fiberglass.

 

Looks like some nice parts. If it's a true 10.5 : 1 with iron heads, it's gonna be borderline to run on pump gas. You may have to mix in some race gas to keep it from detonating. That's OK if it's a track only car, but aggravating and expensive for a street car. It would be pretty optimistic for double hump iron heads to make 475 hp unless they've had some porting work. However, with some porting it's quite possible.

 

With a non overdrive transmission, you turn a lot of rpm at highway speed. 3:54 is the most common gear ratio, which means you will probably be doing 3000-3500 at 60-65 mph. That's OK for some people, not OK for others. Drive it at highway speeds to check the cruising rpm.

 

A R180 isn't going to last long with a good V8. Plan on upgrading to a R200 pretty soon.

 

Lots of good buys out there right now. Check around and don't overpay in today's market. If you smell BS, it's probably there somewhere.

 

What are your plans for the car? Street cruiser, drag car, road course car, or some combo?

 

jt

 

 

I believe most of the body is fiberglass. I was reading here about the rust repair and already talked to a parts shop about getting things like a new gas tank and some of the common rust items. I'll see if I can get the original items that were on the car too.

 

I need to ask a few more questions about the engine. I dont know if its solid or hydrolic lifters or how many bolt mains. The guy owns a construction company and a speedshop. I get the feeling his cars are a labor of love.

 

As of right now the car would be a weekend street car. It just needs to be fun. I'd like to keep it off the race gas. He didnt say anything about using race gas when he was driving it but I'll confirm.

 

I have a procharger bolt on kit with blow through carb and MSD 6 BTM I'd love to put on it but I'd plan an R200 and OD transmission swap first. I'd have to see what the gas situation is first as well. If it is what he says it is I'll probably be content with it for quite a while.

 

If I recall correctly, the trany that was refered to as the "Rock Crusher" was the M-22. The M-22 was considered pretty much indestructable back in the day!

If it is a true "Rock Crusher", It will make very obvious whining noises as You accelerate.

Best check on that!

 

Mongo

 

I'll look into it but I'm not really concerned as long as its the Muncie M21 and not the Saginaw M21. I forget if the Muncie had straight cut gears or not but I'm betting it'll be pretty obvious when I drive it.

 

 

 

The guy is asking $8500 for the car. He says he wants to get back what he's got in the engine. Deal or no deal?

 

 

Btw thanks for the info.

[jhm]

LHD-

+1 on what jt1 said about the 4 speed at highway speeds!

 

If it's the car I'm thinking of (purple car up in Penn or MD -- can't remember where exactly), I think you're probably getting a very good deal.

 

I seriously considered buying that car about a year ago, and talked with the owner quite extensively. He seemed very knowledgeable and honest about the car's history and condition. Besides all the engine work done to the car, it has some other nice/unusual features....pantera hatch, g-nose, Recaros, roll bar, and some kind of fiberglass/cowl induction hood if I recall correctly.

 

I seem to recall the car originally came from CA or CO, so there's a good chance that it's relatively rust free -- give a good inspection to the floor pans, frame rails, and fender inner tubs to confirm.

 

The main reason I didn't buy the car is that it already had alot of work done. I was in the market for more of a project car, to allow me to restore/upgrade as I went along.

 

Again, if we're talking about the same car, I think you're getting a heck of a deal. Good luck and be sure to keep us posted, and welcome to HybridZ!

jhm

[jt1]

The muncie "rockcrusher" with the straight cut gears was the M-22, not the M-21.

 

It would have to be a pretty nice car to be worth $8500 IMO.

 

68 327's were two bolt mains. GM didn't start making 4 bolt blocks till 69.

 

Any pics?

 

jt

[LHD]

LHD-

+1 on what jt1 said about the 4 speed at highway speeds!

 

If it's the car I'm thinking of (purple car up in Penn or MD -- can't remember where exactly), I think you're probably getting a very good deal.

 

I seriously considered buying that car about a year ago, and talked with the owner quite extensively. He seemed very knowledgeable and honest about the car's history and condition. Besides all the engine work done to the car, it has some other nice/unusual features....pantera hatch, g-nose, Recaros, roll bar, and some kind of fiberglass/cowl induction hood if I recall correctly.

 

I seem to recall the car originally came from CA or CO, so there's a good chance that it's relatively rust free -- give a good inspection to the floor pans, frame rails, and fender inner tubs to confirm.

 

The main reason I didn't buy the car is that it already had alot of work done. I was in the market for more of a project car, to allow me to restore/upgrade as I went along.

 

Again, if we're talking about the same car, I think you're getting a heck of a deal. Good luck and be sure to keep us posted, and welcome to HybridZ!

jhm

 

Thats the one. The guy is from CO and now in VA. It honestly seemed like a good deal but I've been out of the V8 car scene for some time (running a turbo sport bike) so I figured I'd come ask the experts.

 

Did he have the Z's painted on the hood when you saw it? It seems to need a fair amount of body work, at least on the nose.

 

 

The paint job will need a tune up. Not real sure what the strap mark is between the nose and the hood. It looks like its in the paint and not a reflection. Inside the grill area looks like it need some attention.

 

There are some incredibly beautiful Zs posted on this site which I fully intend to copy. I just dont want to walk into a complete mess. I've got a decently stocked woodshop in the garage so tuning up fiberglass parts shouldnt be too hard. Plus it gives me an excuse to get into metal working (which I've already found a TON of great info on here).

[LHD]

My last V8 was a 78 camaro that I installed an auburn prolocker 3.55 in the rear and a 96 firebird T-56. That car was all kinds of fun. I'd love to do the same to this car with an R200 and either a T-56 or which ever of the Tremecs was recommended.

 

Its been nearly 8 years since I turned a wrench on a car that wasnt a daily driver so I'm getting excited.

[LHD]

The muncie "rockcrusher" with the straight cut gears was the M-22, not the M-21.

 

It would have to be a pretty nice car to be worth $8500 IMO.

 

68 327's were two bolt mains. GM didn't start making 4 bolt blocks till 69.

 

Any pics?

 

jt

 

Ok good info.

[jt1]

Pretty nice looking car. If the rest of it is that nice, $8500 isn't out of the question.

 

That style front end is a "G nose", which is pretty desirable to a lot of folks.

 

Pay attention to the trans tunnel. Depending on which motor mounts it has, sometimes you have to cut on the tunnel a good bit to get clearance for the sidemount shifter the muncies use.

 

Be sure you put the car on a lift or jackstands and give the underside a good, good inspection. This is a must.

 

jt

[LHD]

Pretty nice looking car. If the rest of it is that nice, $8500 isn't out of the question.

 

That style front end is a "G nose", which is pretty desirable to a lot of folks.

 

Pay attention to the trans tunnel. Depending on which motor mounts it has, sometimes you have to cut on the tunnel a good bit to get clearance for the sidemount shifter the muncies use.

 

Be sure you put the car on a lift or jackstands and give the underside a good, good inspection. This is a must.

 

jt

 

Will do. I need to find out what conversion kit he used, if any.

[LHD]

Alright I just got back from looking at it.

 

Theres no way its 475 hp. Its peppy but I'd say low to mid 300s. No surprise there. The headers are wrapped and they smoke when the car is shut off (when the engine fan stops blowing). He said this is normal for wrapped headers and that I could unwrap them to make it stop. I've never had any experience with wrapped headers so I really dont know what to believe.

 

He claims that the block is a 4 bolt main block. I did find reference to 4 bolt mains being available on 68s L79s here.

 

He claims he made his own engine mounts as well as coil over mounts. I didnt get the car on a lift but what I saw looked professional. He also claims the rear is an R200 from one of the other Z parts cars he had. There was a lot of aftermarket suspension components, especially in the rear.

 

The fiberglass portions of the body were done sloppily. The hood fits decently, the fenders fit pretty well, the nose is bubba'ed and the lip is loosely riveted on. The rear facia needs some work as well. There is a little rust on the metal portions of the body like around the windshield but its not bad at all. The paint is in pretty bad shape. Theres at least 4 spots where the paint has an issue like the strap mark on the hood. It appears he's touched them up with a rattle can.

 

He has a mechanical pop lock on the driver door and an electric one on the passenger door. Neither work very well.

 

Now he's got standard doors and the original hatch in his garage, all in great condition. No signs of rust on any of them.

 

I spent about an hour looking at the car and didnt make an offer. I figured I'd come back and see what the experts have to say. I'm thinking $6500 at most with the factory hatch and doors. I'd also need to get under the car for a much better inspection before I laid any cash out.

 

If this were a daily driver I'd have walked away right off the bat but this is supposed to be a weekend car and tuning up all the little issues with it could be fun as long as the purchase price is right.

[jt1]

Sounds like a pretty major project. If the fiberglass and body work is poor you can spend a lot of time and money getting it nice. I look around some and see what was was available and at what price. It comes down to how much time and money your willing to put in it.

 

I used to own a 68 roadster with a L79, and it was a two bolt. I guess it's possible GM may have used some 4 bolts late in the production run, but I never heard of one back when I used to follow the C3 vettes pretty closely.

 

John

[LHD]

There seems to be nothing else in the area. Especially nothing else pre-emissions with a v8 in it already. Guess I'll keep looking.

[lgoodson@pacbell.net]

Last November I bought a 71 with a LT1 and T56 sitting in the chasis. The engine was out of a 93 TA. Very good paint and body and a new interior.

Tires fair with 15" Z rimms. The engine and trans was not hooked up, just sitting there with the JTR kit and Sanderson headers. About $1500 later it was running and getting sideways in 1st and 2nd gears. I paid $4000 for the car and given the condition of the car itself not counting the drive train, I felt that I got a good deal. The engine was not runing so I didn't know if I was buying a pig in a poke or not but as I turns out the engine and trans and clutch run strong. So $5500 for it with all the basics to get it on the road but I am still putting money into it like a Autometer tach cause I couldn't make a stock one work with the LT1 and a Cable-X box to make the speedo work as the T56 has no provisions for a mechanical speedo. Then there will be coil overs so I can get wider tires on it and Power windows and of course air conditioning and maybe power steering for those wide tires. When I get done my $4000 bargin will probably cost me $8500 to $10000.

What are they worth? Depends on who's buying.

To me engines are a dime a dozen. It's the frame, body and paint and interior where the money will be spent to get something nice. I see LT1's going fpr $500 and about the same for a T56.

How much do you want it?