cygnusx1 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 My car has had the EDIS-6 for quite a while now. After removing the fuel tank twice to weld leaks, today I noticed that the car had an odd intermittent miss at idle. It always had an occasional miss, but this was more frequent. About every two seconds or so, a cylinder would drop out with a bump in the idle. I thought that my fuel maps were off a little, so played with the idle mix and could not settle the miss. I installed a new set of plugs. Same thing. I pulled off all the plug wires one by one to observe a nice strong spark that would jump about 2"!! Wow. I decided to hook up my inductive timing light to observe the flashes. The light flashed fast for a couple of seconds, then half-time for a half second, a miss in the flash, and then back to fast flashing. It did this on all the plug wires. It seemed to correspond with the miss. But I could not say it was missing on only one cylinder. It seemed like all of them were dropping a spark every once and a while. Almost like the miss was phasing with the firing order and moving from cylinder to cylinder. I confirmed it wasn't a single cylinder by pulling spark plug wires one at a time and observing for the miss. It happend no matter which wire was off. So I decided to adjust the gap on the EDIS crank angle sensor. As the car was running, I used a lever to close the gap. All of a sudden, I closed the gap too much and wedged the sensor against the tooth wheel. The engine ground to a halt. The sensor now has a small notch sawed into the tip! Whoops. WTF was I thinking????? Or was I. I was able to back up the sensor, and re-fire the engine but it was missing worse and eventually would no longer idle. Soooo. This sucks. I need a new crank angle sensor and then need to solve that miss that I was getting. I was able to feel the miss while driving steady with minimal throttle. Once the engine was loaded, the miss would go away. Now, since I bought this stuff on ebay, can anyone ID this sensor? It needs to be exactly like this one, angled connector body, to clear the AC clutch. :sad: (NOT SHOWN IN THE PIC) I drilled a hole from the bottom, to pin the location of the bracket against the AC bracket, sinice it uses only one bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 So, the local Advance Auto had the exact sensor in stock. It's a 1997 Taurus V6 sensor. After drilling it and grinding it for proper clearances it bolted up to my bracket and I set the gap. I also noticed that there was a little bit of rotational play in the crank pulley. I know that the keyway in my crank is a little fudged from when the original pulley came loose, so if the pulley bolt loosens a little, the crank can wobble. This MUST be the cause of the misfire. I tighened the crap out of it with locktite and finished mounting the new sensor again. Crank the key and the car fired right up. It still has the miss at idle. It runs VERY good and I don't feel any miss while I drive anymore but the idle miss is there and maybe worse. I double checked all the settings in MSII and checked the wires and connections. Like I said, the car runs faster and smoother than ever. Just an idle miss. The crank keyway has always been bad, but the miss just began after two gas tank swaps. My next test is going to be a compression check. I am now begining to think it might be a head gasket again. CRUD! I plan on rebuilding the turbo this Winter, so a headgasket is not too far out of the way anyhow. BTW last night I took out the fuel injectors and tested them. I thought one might have been clogged but they seem OK. Listen to the video I took of the car idling. Please explain???? Misfires.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 I have the same issue and I also have a whobble with my trigger setup. It also is only at idle. This is due to not centering the wheel properly I used Dereks parts But Iam using the MSA pulleys so I drilled my own holes. Iam eventually planning on going back to a stock pulley and hopefully fix my wobble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 Hmm, I added Gas Dry just in case there was any water left in the tank from the washout for the welding repairs. So far it hasn't helped. I think I'll pull the injectors again tonight to make sure they aren't dripping under pressure, and maybe take a sensor gap reading at four places around the wheel to see how close it is. It is also backfiring a lot when decelerating at high vacuum. Something is definitely screwy, and has changed within the past couple of days. The only work I did is a fuel tank repair, prior to me noticing this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 this sounds silly.. but did you check the fuel filter?! when you pulled the tank and reconnected it, something may have lodged itself in the hose or filter. but it does sound like a timing problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 I cleaned the fuel filter out when the tank was out. My AFRs are also pretty normal the entire time. I have another EDIS-6 control module I can plug in. Maybe I'll try that real quickly. I don't think it's a wobbly tooth wheel because that hasn't changed from the original install. I'll also throw in an old map to see if it's a program issue. Any ideas on how I can isolate it to either a fuel or spark problem? I'm trying to keep in mind that it's the most obvious that gets overlooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Sounds like a bad muffler bearing!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 No I just paid some guy off the street $459 to install a brand new MB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 We have a close setup besides the wobble I also got my tank welded recently more identical than I thought. I also notice I have intermittent spark at the lower setup of coils Iam using the ford coil pack. A tuner told me its because its a wasted spark setup and the hottest spark goes to the cylinder with the most atomization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 I dont have a compression tester so I am going to start by doing what I can. Fuel pressure and hold test. Injector Backflush. Swap EDIS-6 module with spare. Test an old .msq file Purchase a spare dodge coilpack tomorrow. Try to find vacuum/exhaust leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 Fuel pressure is good and holds. I pulled each plug wire off one at a time and ran the engine. I observed the misfire pretty much equally no matter what plugs were "off". The engine seemed a touch smoother with cylinder #3 spark wire removed. Each wire produced a very consistent bright spark with no misses and good rhythm. I tried the other EDIS module and it made no difference. I ran older maps with the miss showing up in all of them. I am switching my story here. I now think that it's a fuel problem. The fuel tank was out of the car, flushed and welded twice within the past two weeks. There is a good chance that something got into the fuel system from all the recent disturbance. The car runs GREAT at anything above 1/4 throttle. Either there is bad gas in the car, water in the gas, or one or more injectors have an issue with spray pattern. I may try to back flush them, check the patterns, or I may send them out for cleaning and blueprinting. I am going to use up this tank of gas before I do anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Good luck .... Update on mine... stalled me after filling the tank up. This is like right after I posted earlier ! That wobble was more scary than I thought I was pushing it 3rd cause I was trying to see what boost Iam at. Anywho just like that it stopped and wouldnt run thankfully I was close to my house called my brother and we towed back with what we had booster cables :S hehe. When I got home after a quick investigation no spark --> no rpm --> look at the VR sensor ouch scary grinded the sucker at least 1.5mm in I guess it rubbed so close it dragged the VR closer> SOOOOOO Thank you for posting at least that part number Cause I need a new VR . I have the same exact miss with the same exact wobble remmember you have to be within tolerance all 360 degrees of rotation. Mine wobbled but never touched I guess a bump or something pushed it out at the closest point than hit. Other than that my mount is solid! wobble = no good. The magnet got sheared off and the sensor doesnt stick to anything. wow theres too many things identical between our setups. I am 100% my miss is caused from my wobble and Ill correct it soon. Here is the pic. And another.... how much did the VR run you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 " I also noticed that there was a little bit of rotational play in the crank pulley. I know that the keyway in my crank is a little fudged from when the original pulley came loose, so if the pulley bolt loosens a little, the crank can wobble. This MUST be the cause of the misfire." you said it yourself. The wobble is not good. the tolerance needs to be proper all the way around. I would rotate the engine by hand and put a gapper that size for tolerance which is (I think) 1.4 mm is the most you can go so stick one that size (and it should attach itself to magnet) rotate engine and see by eye if the gap is lower or higher. Whats the part number and do you have picture of how your vr sensor looks like. Cause Iam looking online everything that shows up for a taurus crank sensor shows this we could have different ones. I also searched my part number and for other v6 fords that have EDIS> first time the net doesnt show the right parts...... Heres what shows up for a taurus 1997 crank sensor Is yours a one bolt sensor where it mounts? Mine is 2 and its angled part # on it is F0EE-6C315-A2B Could be off an explorer I guess. Heres a pic Edit I found it. It seems like its for 4 cylinder Fords I dont think that makes a difference. Except everywhere I found it there no price I guess and everything tomorrow is closed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 My crank pulley is tight now so it's not wobbling on the keyway but it still misfires at idle and light throttle. The gap changes by about 0.005 around the disc. I think that's well within sensing tolerance of the system. Classic symptom of a faulty injector is a rough idle and part throttle driveability. Since I visually observed the spark on each cylinder by holding the boots away from the plugs, I did not see any miss or abnormal sparking, I am shifting to a fuel issue. Here is a part number that you can start with: ACDELCO Part # 2132555 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trwebb26 Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 It only happens at idle? If that is true - I'd be outruling fuel. If you rev the engine and it goes away you are commanding more fuel than before and you've already said your AFRs are good. If there really was an obstruction the misses would either get worse at higher RPM - or you'd be getting lean AFRs. Are you running Megasquirt? With the problems I've had with plug wires and EMI - I wouldn't be outruling Megasquirt being the culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 A bad spray pattern would show up more at idle. Yup I run MSII. I tried going very rich and very lean at idle with no change in the miss. As soon as I load the engine, the car runs smoothly. I have a hunch that something that the welding shop used to flush the gas tank (radiator shop goo) is in the tip of one or more of the injectors and making it dribble instead of atomize. At high air flows, the dribble would atomize and burn normally. At low airflows, I could be getting a liquid drool, dripping into the cylinder, which actually quenches the ignition. This could also explain the increase in popping backfires on deceleration. Raw fuel in the downpipe igniting. Plausible? In the last two weeks I have removed the fuel tank twice, and had it patched by a radiator shop. It seems logical that something got into the fuel system since the guy rinsed it with what looked like fluids from an old radiator boil tank. Another point is that my fuel filter, is not the best. It's pretty small and high-flow, and does not do a great job of catching small particles. I need to put in a better filter too. With MSII and my wideband, if an injector misfired, MSII would richen the mixture on all the injectors to compensate. Raw fuel is detected on an O2 sensor as LEAN. Basically, it would be tough or impossible to draw any conclusions from the AFR readings. The sparks are very strong and consistent on each plug. I confirmed this visually and audibly. You can hear the arc easily when it jumps the two inch gaps. Hint: Wear rubber gloves and use insulated channel locks with a LOONG handle to hold the wires! Or Not. <---this guy knows what EDIS can do for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Strange stuff happening... I pulled the injectors and back flushed them by pouring injector cleaner into a hose that was stuck onto the end of my air gun. Then I pressed the injector tips into the hose, squeezed the air-gun trigger, and triggered the injectors with an electrical circuit I made. It certainly blasted all the cleaner through them backwards, nicely. Very messy but it looked effective. I reinstalled the injectors and the miss was still there once the car warmed up. I busted out the laptop again. It was idling around 12.8 AFR which is where it always likes it. I turned up the Ve to get about a 10.8 AFR at idle and the miss just about went away! Now it idles betweeen 10 and 11 AFR with an occasional miss. I also tried varying the base timing which had zero effect on the misfire so I settled back to about 26-27 btdc, where it has always been. Strange? Why, all of a sudden, do I need such a rich mixture to idle smoothly. Weak spark? Timing change? O2 Sensor giving me bad readings? Moving this thread to MS section.... http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=1073766#post1073766 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Side gapping the spark plugs solved my misfire at idle problem and the car backfires much less during decel. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=154222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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