Planning 383 240z - Help me plan!

[PhaTTy]

What started off as an LS3 build is going to become a 383 build to decrease cost and simplify things.

 

Ok Guys.. It's been a long time since I've set foot in the HybridZ forums, but I am ambitious now and want my own Hybrid Z!

 

This will be a Fun Driver (not daily driver, but could be if needed).. I am aiming for 10-11s 1/4 mile times when I decide to take it to the strip on occasion.

 

Items to be completed, in order of importance:

Obtain a 240z with minimal rust (Hopefully not hard in Arizona/California)

Have 240z's chassis majorly strengthened to withstand power

Gut and bedliner the interior

 

Build Plans:

JCI (John's Cars) V8 Conversion Kit - (may not need entire kit since using GM sensors)

T700 Driveshaft from JCI - $165

Driveshaft Adapter from JCI - $100

Torque Converter Lockup (Electrolock) from JCI - $85

High Performance 700R4 Transmission/Converter from Monster Transmission ($2000)

R200/R230 VLSD Swap

 

--- OLD IDEA --

GM Performance LS376/515 (515hp/469tq) Engine ($7100)

GM Performance 19171130 LSX Ignition Control (programmable ignition!) ($350)

F.A.S.T. EZ-EFI Kit w/ Complete Fuel System (up to 550hp) - $1900

-- OLD IDEA --

 

-- OLD IDEA --

Chevy LS3 Engine from wrecked vehicle

Fuel System good up to 550hp - $345

-- OLD IDEA --

 

-- NEW IDEA --

383 w/ 443hp engine - http://www.tuffdawgengines.com/chev_383_443hp.htm (local builder) - $3500 to my door

F.A.S.T. EZ-EFI Kit for running fuel w/ Complete Fuel System (up to 550hp) - $1900

MSD 6AL kit (85551K) to run ignition - $500

-- NEW IDEA --

 

Aluminum 4-row radiator from Ledfoot Racing or JTR - $280

16" Black Magic Xtreme cooling fan (3,300cfm) , or dual 12" 1400cfm

Fuel Cell of course

Dual 2.5" Exhaust w/ x-pipe

Larger front brakes

 

I've heard nothing but amazing reviews on the EZ-EFI system (especially the self-tune).

 

My initial (expensive/insane) idea was to put in the C4 Corvette IRS w/ coilovers but I don't think that would be necessary for occasional dragging, and I am not planning to take it to a circle track.

 

Main questions:

- Is this too much power in a Z (my thought.. no.. just beef up the chassis/rearend)

- Am I insane?

- Does anyone else have a similar setup, and have some 1/4 mile times

- Is the F.A.S.T. EZ-EFI Kit a great idea

- How difficult is it to swap in the R200/R230 VLSD and which do you recommend, or do you recommend something else.

 

I am ready for your feedback and thoughts. This is my first draft, so I am up to suggestions and flaming.

 

Thanks guys,

Aaron

Edited January 6, 2010 by PhaTTy
Changed to using EZ-EFI system

[MAG58]

Sounds like a good project. If your wondering if it's too much power, have you driven a car with a power to weight ratio of about 5lb/hp? That's about what you're barking at and before you plunge all sorts of money in it you may wanna find someone with a car that has those kind of numbers and have him scare the ever loving hell out of you.

[FlatBlack]

Read:

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=150869&highlight=LS3

 

I am trying to cut some cost and future hassle by going with the LS376/515 which has a 4 barrel intake manifold on it, which I will hook the EZ-EFI kit up to. I've heard nothing but amazing reviews on it (especially the self-tune).

 

Cutting some cost? Do you really know what you're getting into with this swap?

 

Anyways, I would suggest getting an LS3 out of a wrecked car like NESS did, and using the stock PCM. They have Coil on Plug ignition [awesome!!] and from what my friends tell me, HPTuners and EFILive both do really well for tuning the stock stuff.

 

Good luck, I'm jealous, this is one of my dream projects

[PhaTTy]

Cutting some cost? Do you really know what you're getting into with this swap?

 

Anyways, I would suggest getting an LS3 out of a wrecked car like NESS did, and using the stock PCM. They have Coil on Plug ignition [awesome!!] and from what my friends tell me, HPTuners and EFILive both do really well for tuning the stock stuff.

 

flatback280 -- I don't know what I was thinking when I picked out the LS376/515 from GM.. It's just a stock LS3 w/ cam and carb manifold.. I like the idea of finding (somehow) a used LS3 from a wrecked car.. Using the stock PCM is good too.. With EFILive ($800) I would be left with full sequential tuneable injection system, and would have something similar to easy-tune with EFILive if I buy a $600 (+$200 license) RoadRunner RealTime ECM (which probably does not work as an LS3 ECM, but may..). This stock easy-tunable EFI setup combined would be $1600, and I can get the EZ-EFI for $2250 complete with supporting fuel system (but would need the ~$400 carb manifold.. so $2650 for EZ-EFI vs $1600 for stock ECM w/ tuning).

 

If I liked the power of a stock LS3, great.. If not, I could always throw in a cam and up the power a bit..

 

Thanks for the money-saving used LS3 idea.. just don't know how hard it will be to find one

[MAG58]

Thanks for the money-saving used LS3 idea.. just don't know how hard it will be to find one

 

Give it a year. I'm sure some little high school prick who's daddy bought them one so they could be cool will wrap one around a telephone poll soon enough.

[FlatBlack]

You could just go steal a new SS Camaro from a dealership

 

Bring it back with an L28 stuffed in there, they'll never notice

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2010-CAMARO-SS-LS3-242-MILES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19b8c86d7aQQitemZ110474325370QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[k14]

Check this one out. I don't know if the price is a typo or not.

 

http://springfield.craigslist.org/cto/1534066310.html

[FlatBlack]

I saw that yesterday. LS3s are NOT 480HP. I think it's about 430 to the crank.

[PhaTTy]

I saw that yesterday. LS3s are NOT 480HP. I think it's about 430 to the crank.

 

According to GM, adding on a cam & intake added 125hp to the stock LS3 engine.. they claim that is all that was done to the LS376/515... weird.

[Guest NESS89]

You should do itttt!!!! The power of a stock Ls3 is awsome, before I finished putting the engine in my car, i had all these plans of getting some different heads and a crazy cam and the FAST LXR intke manifold. Then i drove my car for the first time and said "Yea, i think im good with the power for now." Especially if u get it tuned, and you use headers and a good exhaust, you should be very satisfied.

[Filmjay]

I have an LS3...only it's got a pesky '08 Corvette body wrapped around it. lol.

 

The LS376/480 is a stock LS3 with the GM hot cam. The 515hp version is also stock, but with the LS7 cam and a carb intake. A stock LS3 is 430hp, or 436hp with the factory dual-mode Corvette exhaust system.

Unless you're a hardcore racer or an old musclecar guy, you won't like the LS376.

 

If you happen to find a pull-out LS3, make sure you get the right ECM. An '09 LS3 ECM won't work with an '08.

Another option would be to pick up a forged LS3 short block and do a build up.

 

If you plan on auto-x or any type of road racing with it, you will also want to especially concentrate on the oil system. The LS3 has had reported starvation issues in long corners. (fixed with the new dry sump oiling system offered in the '10 Corvette Grand Sport.)

 

I have a lot of info for LS3's. Just ask. As for dropping it into a Z, I couldn't tell ya. It's been done...it's not as common as the Gen 3 LS motors(LS1, 2, & 6)...but it's been done.

The really cool thing about the stock LS3 is that it LOOOOOVES aftermarket products. A cam alone is worth upwards of 50hp....

 

I'm putting a 224/232, 113* cam in my LS3 in a few weeks...along with hardened pushrods, and dual-springs. Although I know it's a Corvette and this is a Z site, I'll post results if anybody's interested.

[PhaTTy]

Now I am considering what engine to get.. a LS3 is hard to source, and the stock ECM is going to be more problematic to mod (if it needs programming). I know a lot of people do the LS1... I just wanted to be different. My biggest fear is having an aluminum block that won't withstand 550hp without a hitch.. I don't plan to make 550hp, but I want the peace of mind knowing that the engine is more than capable of what it does produce.

 

I've also considered the Wolf V500 ECU for use on the LS1/LS6 or LS3. I'd love to hear your opinions on engine options. I don't mind doing the FAST EZ-EFI system either.. Also considered grabbing an LS block and working from there, but it would be more $ than just buying one pre-stroked by someone competent I think.

 

Lots of ideas running around in my head.. You guys are here to help me get them straight.

[PhaTTy]

I keep reading more and more great reviews of the FAST EZ-EFI system which will bolt onto a square flange carburetor manifold. $1900 for a tried-and-true automatically tuning and automatically adjusting EFI system is really hard to beat I'm really leaning towards ditching the GM EFI and going with that, purely for cost if I don't get a turn-key engine.

 

Because of the large difference in cost, I am considering just getting a built 383 from a builder in Phoenix (only 100 miles away from me).

 

The engine I am looking at is here: http://www.tuffdawgengines.com/chev_383_443hp.htm and its $3500 shipped to my door. I plan on sticking the FAST EZ-EFI system on it, for $1900, and I'd need to grab a MSD 6AL kit (85551K) to run ignition for it, and some components

 

Going with that engine would probably save me some $ and I think I would be happy with it. It will be a while before I need to even make an engine choice, so I'm sure I will brainstorm more before then.. Your thoughts?

[Filmjay]

FYI...a stock bottomed LS3 will handle 550hp just fine. There are stock-based LS3's pushing 700hp.

But to get it to that point you WILL be adding turbos or a supercharger. (I'm assuming you're hoping to get 550 at the wheels) In which case, you'll probably want a good meth injection setup as well.

 

If budget is of concern, keep looking. LS3 aftermarket parts aren't widely plentiful yet, and are VERY expensive relative to a Gen 1 SBC.

If it were me, I'd stick to the plan of the Gen 1 383 (or bigger) to drop in a Z. You'll get the power you want, for FAR cheaper.

[PhaTTy]

FYI...a stock bottomed LS3 will handle 550hp just fine. There are stock-based LS3's pushing 700hp.

But to get it to that point you WILL be adding turbos or a supercharger. (I'm assuming you're hoping to get 550 at the wheels) In which case, you'll probably want a good meth injection setup as well.

 

If budget is of concern, keep looking. LS3 aftermarket parts aren't widely plentiful yet, and are VERY expensive relative to a Gen 1 SBC.

If it were me, I'd stick to the plan of the Gen 1 383 (or bigger) to drop in a Z. You'll get the power you want, for FAR cheaper.

 

Those were my thoughts exactly.. I'd love to get just around 500hp without having to supercharge or turbo the engine... I noticed the same engine builder has (http://www.tuffdawgengines.com/chev_383_500hp.htm) .. I could probably work with them to create a reliable SBC that runs on pump gas. All the engines they list, they claim run fine on 91 octane.

 

Just FYI - I am heading up this weekend to look at a '73 240z with a complete fiberglass molded one piece tilt front-end (-weight, +easy engine bay access).. It also has fiberglass doors (-weight), and made convertible (-weight), which I will have to get a hard top for. I'm thinking with the reduced weight on the front, having a non-aluminum block will even the weight ratio out pretty nice.. I'm guessing 450-500hp in this will be enough to scare the living daylights out of a passenger, and pull some decent 1/4 times as well. What do you think?

 

I'd love to strap a turbo or charger on, but it does add cost, time, fabrication, and more parts that can fail.. I know the cool factor is definitely there, but not sure if I want the extra complications.

[Cable]

I'd love to get just around 500hp

 

I think it was asked earlier, but have you ever even rode in a car with that much power to weight ratio? Not to mention driven one?

 

I don't mean to be a prick, but you may be getting over your head. I've owned several 'quick' cars, including 2 S30's with 3 different V8 engine swaps (GEN I 383 sbc, Mark IV 454 BBC, and GEN III 6.0 LQ4). The 383 was the most mild and still ran 12.2 all motor and 10.9 on a 150 shot.

 

My latest S30 has a bone stock 2005 LQ4 6.0 with a mild cam. I've never dyno'd it, but I'd venture its making just under 400HP to the rear wheels.

 

My point is you don't need to spend $5k to get what you want. I am a speed junkie and my current S30 has more than enough power for the car, I can drive it anywhere, get good mpg and great street manners and the best part is I don't have $1500 in the long block (including the new Voodoo cam, new LS6 yellow springs, and new hardened pushrods).

 

I highly doubt you'll get the same power and manners out of the built 443HP 383. Plus, I've always been warry of shop built 'crate engines'......

 

Just something to keep in mind.

[PhaTTy]

I've ridden in a fairly quick car.. It was heavier but was an El Camino pushing 600-800hp depending on boost.. Enough to scare me, but it was fun once I got past the initial shock.

 

I don't plan on running nitrous at all, I am looking for just all motor. I would be plenty happy with a 12.2 1/4 mile.

 

Wasn't planning on having the shop send me a crate, but work with them to create what I needed, or build it with my dad, who has experience.

 

Do you have any idea what type of build that 383 was that you ran a 12.2 on? I'm thinking 443hp in a 240z (lighter than stock even) would be a lot of power for that car... Don't want to overdo it..

 

Good comments.. This is what I was looking for.

[Cable]

I am aiming for 10-11s 1/4 mile times when I decide to take it to the strip on occasion.

 

 

 

I would be plenty happy with a 12.2 1/4 mile.

 

Do you have any idea what type of build that 383 was that you ran a 12.2 on? I'm thinking 443hp in a 240z (lighter than stock even) would be a lot of power for that car... Don't want to overdo it..

 

 

I am confused on your quarter mile goals.....

 

As far as the 383 combo, I started a '70's 350 block casting, 2 bolt main with studs, bored and honed to 0.030" with a deck plate, zero decked, line-honed, GM 5.7" 'Pink' rods w/ARP Wave-Loc bolts, SCAT cast steel stroker crank, Speed-Pro 9.5:1 CR pistons, moly rings, internally balanced, GM Vortec heads with stock size [stainless] valves, 3-angle valve job, some minor short-side radias porting and the bowls and chambers were mirror polished w/sanding rolls, Fel-Pro .040" MLS head gaskets, Summit hyd flat tappet cam kit (K1105 .465/.488" lift, 224/234 dur @.050", 114 LSA), stock rocker arms, hardened pushrods, 'Z28' .500" valve springs, stock retainers, Performer RPM intake, Holley 700cfm DP, billet HEI w/50k 'Flamethrower' coil, 1 5/8" ceramic coated block hugger headers, dual 2.5" exhaust into a single 3" muffler in the stock location.

 

If I were to build it again today, I'd go with a newer Lunati Voodoo Hyd cam and a set of long tube headers. Another member here (http://forums.hybridz.org/member.php?u=31079) used a set of Sanderson headers intended for a '35 Ford (w/SBC) on his recent 327 SBC S30 swap and only had to bend them slightly to work in the S30 chassis. I'd bet the long tube headers are worth 15-20 HP over the block huggers too.

 

Take care.

[PhaTTy]

I am confused on your quarter mile goals.....

 

Those were just goals.. I'm not going to be disappointed with a ~12.. And then again, if I run 11's I would be overjoyed.. I'm doing it for fun, not competition.

 

If I were to build it again today, I'd go with a newer Lunati Voodoo Hyd cam and a set of long tube headers. Another member here (http://forums.hybridz.org/member.php?u=31079) used a set of Sanderson headers intended for a '35 Ford (w/SBC) on his recent 327 SBC S30 swap and only had to bend them slightly to work in the S30 chassis. I'd bet the long tube headers are worth 15-20 HP over the block huggers too.

 

Hrm... Now you've got me thinking about grabbing a block and building up an engine with my father.. Good bonding time, eh .. I like the idea of the Lunati Voodoo cam and you seem to be pleased with it. I've heard from a couple of sources that the sanderson headers fit in a sbc v8 swap, so will have to check that out also

 

Awesome.. If it were not for you guys, I'd be lost. I know this is going to be a drawn out project, but having some help is always nice.

[Filmjay]

Now you've got me thinking about grabbing a block and building up an engine with my father..

 

That would be your cheapest bet, and the best way to be 100% sure you know what's going into it.

 

And if your Z is pre-emissions for your state, the world of affordable short blocks is at your fingertips...depending on what you can afford. lol.

 

An LS1 build would be quite nice, imo. The earlier Gen III LSx engines are pretty widely supported and are a great foundation for a muscular motor with modern drivability and performance.