Guest KraZ4spd Posted June 5, 2001 Share Posted June 5, 2001 What would be the best way to strengthen the body of a 70 240? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 Umm, what will you be using it for? Mikelly is working oon a 20+ point cage. I've got a 8 point cage in mine, others simply have subframe connectors of their own making. You'll probably get a million opinions on this as well as learn what a PITA side bars are with a cage - but they will also protect your butt in an accident if you're T-boned. What is it, exactly, that you're trying to accomplish? What are you doing to the car and with the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 I'm not disputing side bars would probably help in a t-bone, but wouldn't the car have to be pretty narrow to come through the door by itself (I know, it could at an angle) but would a 8 lb bar stop a blue hair in a lincoln from ruining your day (or maybe life?), wouldn't it just fold up if it got hit that hard anyway? I know everything is triangulated and it probably would help, but I just was trying to reason it all out. I suppose properly triangulated and anchored to the frame rails (hope they're not stock Datsun) it would probably hold up. Seems like cages were made for roll overs smashes into walls, but are 8 point cages up to keeping a car out the side of the car? Just a topic to kick around since things are a bit slow.. Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 Well... I guess it would depend on the speed. Look inside the doors of a 240Z sometime and examine the crash protection. There's A stamped sheet metal bar in there - NOTHING else! Remove the window assemblies from one of those doors and you could ring that sucker like a gong. A side bar may not stop a car coming through but I have no doubt it would slow it down much more than what's in there stock. I have no idea what safety standards were in the 70s but wow is that door thin. I wonder if sidebars run low like the Autopower cage in my Mustang would help at all? They would almost act like a frame and help prevent flex from the side but they wouldn't slow much of anything coming through the door up higher. It would provide strength but not get in the way at least. The sidebars I've got are a PITA. NOT for the daily driver. The SCCA car I nearly bought was pretty sick - it had a triangulated CAGE on each side by the doors. THAT provided impact protection I'm positive. Looked like bridge supports! It was too much, no way was I going to buy a car with that much cage in it for the street... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 I think most any bar you can put on the side would help. The "side impact protection beams" that cars have nowadays are not as thick or as strong as a roll cage side bar--they do make up for a lot of that in length (a shorter bar is a stronger bar in that it will not bend as easily). If 280Z doors would interchange, I probably would do it. Sometime, pick up a 240Z door and then a 280Z door. BIG difference. My brother was in his 510 and was T-boned by a Ford LTD. Car was totalled and he bumped his head on the side glass giving him a slight concussion, but the Recaro seat was what stopped the Furd (with the pointy front end) from going futher inside the car. Those Recaros have that steel backbone and have tremendous rigidity. Too bad they are sooo expensive for nice ones. Had the Ford been going faster, the next best thing would have been a diagonal from a roll bar on that side. Just food for thought. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 And tasty food it is! Yeah I suspect your right. Obviously anything over the little hat section tacked in the door would help I suppose. Of course the small light cars are always at risk just due to size (semi vs Z... shudder...). I hadn't considered 'Pointy cars' (I donno why, but this reminded me of the Monty Python bit "And now, how to protect yourself from someone attacking you with a bananna", probably because of the 'Pointy Stick' mentioned in the skit.) Oh well, its late, I better log outta here because I'm getting entirely to silly. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 Just a thought I had on making a less obnoxious side bar would possibly be to model it after the way I've seen it done on a few late model cars. They have slots that the side impact bar/beam ties into on the frame when you close the door. Why not adopt this design into a custom door panel as part of an armrest or something? It's out of the way for getting in and out of the vehicle, but part of the structure once the door is shut. Might take a bit more work to get it installed initially but I bet it wouldn't be all that tough to do. If you did it right and made it look integrated into the door it would be pretty nice I think. Maybe even do a double beam and give it a slight arc toward the outside to make it even stronger. One other point to consider is that the beam is most likely not designed to absorb the impact itself as it is to distribute the force of the impact into the frame structure of the car. If you've got a really rigid door section with the bars, it's going to move the whole car and distribute that energy to the frame to an extent before the beam itself gives. Of course I'm not an engineer so I might be completely off on this, if any of you real engineers around here would care to comment please do, I'm interested in your views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KraZ4spd Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 I'm just putting in a v8. I'm going to have some fun with racing around town, stop light drags, cat & mouse, maybe even little autocrossing, who knows? Just want to strengthen the the body for about 330 HP worth of twist. I know the 70's had thinner metal. I don't want to 'hack' the car up, just make it stronger! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 I have "X" bars in my car (one goes from where the "dead" pedal used to be in the footwell to where the B-pillar should have been; the other goes from where the seat belt retract used to be, to the upper door hinge area). Getting in the car is NOT that difficult. But I'm way way smaller than the 6+ footers that seem to dominate this club . The Z is a pretty big car if you're short. I think of the X-bars as a means of making the car more rigid, rather than side impact protection. Those bars are so close to my left shoulder, that even if they deflect just slightly, they will smash my side, unless my seat also deflects. The bars help in bending and torsion by triangulating welded-in hard points with one another - points that would otherwise be "floating". But I agree that if "all" you expect is 300-400 hp, and safety takes priority over making the car rigid, there is probably a better solution than diagonal or X-bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 Guys, I'm 6'2", 230 lbs and I got my fat body into Michael's car with not alot of trouble. Nothing I'd want to do everyday, but not out of the question for a race car. I echo Michaels sentiment on how far the door bars usually come to the driver. If it's just inches away, it's probably going to crack your ribs (concentrated load). Sure, the corner of a car coming through the door without a door bar is going to be nasty, but I'm not sure a simple door bar is going to help much. It WILL bend, and you WILL come into contact with it. I might actually prefer for the whole door to ocme in on me, spreading out the load. I know, I'm probably just rationalizing not having door bars in my car . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 I kinda had an idea to use maybe rectangular bar as the side bar and it having a (what else?) Z (or maybe a gentle S would be more like it) configuration, where it would be a bit less obtrusive getting in past it. It would run from where the sidebar normally does on the rollbar, and then it crosses down towards the floor near the seat cushion, flattens out and then angles again and heads forward to the frame rail near the dead pedal. (in other words the center section of the side bar is parallel with the seat for a ways. It could be argued it would'nt be as strong as a straight run, but welded 2x3 or something to that effect is damn strong when welded on the miter's. Is this understandable and possible, or would rules prohibit the use of anything but round pipe (not that it matters to me, I'm building it for street for the most part)? Just a thought, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 16, 2001 Share Posted June 16, 2001 someone makes a high density foam that weights 5 or 6 lbs per cubic foot. some luxo boats(lexus, infinity )and F1 cars use it in the hollow areas of the unibody to add rigidity and dampen vibration also lowers noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 We kicked the foam idea aorund not long after the Sport Compact Car guys did it in their 300ZX. I still think it's a good idea but it's low on my list now that the interior is in and I've got DynaMat everywhere I'd like to foam the rockers - maybe when I pull the fenders down the line I'll consider it. There are some longtemr rust issues to consider when you do this - must use the correct foam and NOT the standard issue insulating foam from Home Depot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 hmmm...if ya think about it...a decently installed cage...with side bars...is all tied together...right? This is just my mind wandering...nothing factual...Weeeellll...if ya got hit in the side...mebbie your whole car would kinda scoot over, once the side bar was pushed, instead of just bending the bar? Rather, instead of the car crumpling around the car that's impacting you, maybe it would push your car, instead of entering it? Just my thoughts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted June 20, 2001 Share Posted June 20, 2001 i think that if the z has good frame rails and floors, then clean up the rails and reinforce them with some tubular steel, if not, cut em out and put in some thicker floors and rails, and fab some subframe connectors and youre good. get a roll bar or cage to reinforce further, and let em rip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.