difference between branded aftermarket parts

[dice]

what's the difference between branded aftermarket parts and the unknown one's? example is greddy intake manifold and fastwayracers intake manifold? the price is very much too expensive for the greeddy while the other brand only cost $224.95. i want to buy it but afraid of their performance and quality.

 

are the quality almost the same with the branded ones? how bout their performance? here's the site http://www.fastwayracer.com/ thanks

[burninator]

I can't comment specifically on that brand, I've never heard of them. There are some small shops that make their own products and do a fine job. But for the most part the biggest difference is that the big companies like GReddy spend a lot of money researching and developing their parts. The generic companies then come in and basically copy what the big names are doing. Some with more success than others. Supporting the generic companies that rip off big names is bad for the industry because it takes away money from the big companies that have to spend big money to do the research and move the industry forward. Specifically I mean companies that make "GReddy style" exhausts or "HKS style" blow off valves, that sort of thing. GReddy's parent company Trust has already gone bankrupt once. GReddy US is apparently doing okay, but it's a tough time money wise for everyone.

[reintr0ducing]

burninator is correct. the name branded parts will almost always have tons of research and development behind the part to make sure it's a quality part. i've experienced/seen/heard way too many horror stories of generic parts not working as they should or even damaging the car.

 

for a personal example, on my old mr2 turbo i installed a trd replica short shifter and it sucked. it refused to get into gear, sometimes it would pop out of gear and back into neutral, etc. i then purchased a genuine trd short shifter and it worked like it was supposed to. the replica was a huge waste of 50 bucks for me as i couldn't even sell it after to anyone to the mr2 community for $20.

 

also i refuse to buy replica parts because they rob the companies that put the money into the R&D. case in point: voltex (one of the BEST jdm aero makers in the biz) stopped selling CF hoods for the evo 8 and 9 in the US because seibon ripped off the design and undercut the price. sure everyone knows if you can sell a product for less, that's business. however, voltex windtunnel tests their aero and is crafted in japan, while seibon copies designs and is made in china.

 

if replica companies keep copying designs then how long will the big companies be able to afford the R&D to keep putting out quality parts?

[Hugh]

So goes business.

 

Those fake Greddy manifolds are what we call "Freddy" manifolds.

 

I've seen some studies on them several years back. One guy cut one in half and showed how horrible the ports were inside. He had to grind away a bunch of material to clean it up. It looked like a porcupine died in the port or something.

 

The cheap casting was so porous that it was causing leaks in the middle between runners. There was no way to identify this until you really inspected it very closely. Once you apply a ton of boost pressure, it would be blowing air right out those holes... wasting power, and causing the engine to run rich for no apparent reason.

 

Once he fixed all that and welded it back together, it worked. He then said he'd buy the more expensive one next time and avoid all the trouble.

 

There are 'good' knock-off parts out there. You have to research them and find people showing good results from them before you try, though. I personally don't run any. There are name brands that are not Japanese that produce great quality parts... as the Japanese gouge their prices really bad.

 

 

You wonder why companies like Apexi and Trust are at risk of going out of business? How about the exorbitant prices they charge for their parts? Lot's of the R&D involved is simply buying a part from an American company and stamping their name on it. Then they double the price. I'm not going to start listing specific parts here, but I discovered a lot of dead-on rebadged American parts in Japan when I lived there for 5 years. We ordered as much as we could from the states to save money.

 

JDM = BS. If you can get the part elsewhere, go for it. Even the Japanese manufacturers are moving all their production out to China. (actually, the likely beat us to the punch, as they are right next door and shipping costs a lot less)

[hoov100]

It's not so much as the manufactures themselves who are marking up the price, but more of the sellers and distributors, that are marking it up because it is brand name. Z1motorsports.com is a good example of this, if you go into off the shelf aftermarket parts they have. (also there shipping charges)

[Hugh]

Take a look into a JDM parts catalog with a price list. It's outrageous. Trust, HKS, etc... their list prices are nuts. The shops in Japan sell them for less than the list and its still expensive. Once its shipped back over here, then its just out of control.

[hoov100]

Take a look into a JDM parts catalog with a price list. It's outrageous. Trust, HKS, etc... their list prices are nuts. The shops in Japan sell them for less than the list and its still expensive. Once its shipped back over here, then its just out of control.

 

I look at retail price, whenever I do price comparisons, usually the retail price of parts, or even getting parts strait from the manufacturer are ALOT lower then almost any advertised price.

[reintr0ducing]

So goes business.

 

Those fake Greddy manifolds are what we call "Freddy" manifolds.

 

I've seen some studies on them several years back. One guy cut one in half and showed how horrible the ports were inside. He had to grind away a bunch of material to clean it up. It looked like a porcupine died in the port or something.

 

The cheap casting was so porous that it was causing leaks in the middle between runners. There was no way to identify this until you really inspected it very closely. Once you apply a ton of boost pressure, it would be blowing air right out those holes... wasting power, and causing the engine to run rich for no apparent reason.

 

Once he fixed all that and welded it back together, it worked. He then said he'd buy the more expensive one next time and avoid all the trouble.

 

There are 'good' knock-off parts out there. You have to research them and find people showing good results from them before you try, though. I personally don't run any. There are name brands that are not Japanese that produce great quality parts... as the Japanese gouge their prices really bad.

 

 

You wonder why companies like Apexi and Trust are at risk of going out of business? How about the exorbitant prices they charge for their parts? Lot's of the R&D involved is simply buying a part from an American company and stamping their name on it. Then they double the price. I'm not going to start listing specific parts here, but I discovered a lot of dead-on rebadged American parts in Japan when I lived there for 5 years. We ordered as much as we could from the states to save money.

 

JDM = BS. If you can get the part elsewhere, go for it. Even the Japanese manufacturers are moving all their production out to China. (actually, the likely beat us to the punch, as they are right next door and shipping costs a lot less)

 

i agree with you. i'm not saying apexi, trust, etc. are the best. i'm just using it as an example. another example i was reading about would be skunk2 and asr (both american companies) getting their designs counterfeited and lesser quality parts branded as theirs. i do agree with you on a lot of companies overcharging for their (JDM) name. personally, if a american made or no name company can make a product that is as good or better (with quality and proof that it works), then of course i will consider them.

 

http://www.topsecretjpn.com/accessories.shtml

lol @ the last product listed. i love top secret a ton, but would never pay $295 for a SHIFT BOOT.

[Tony D]

"Sure everyone knows if you can sell a product for less, that's business."

 

No, actually this is illegal in most commercial codes. If you can DEVELOP and manufacture/sell it for less is one thing. Imitating a product blatantly ripping of design features or outright shadow moulding aero parts for example...is a violation of most commercial codes. But most companies don't have the resources to back it up and spend $50,000 on a trial that will go on for years with the imitator eventually simply declaring bankruptcy and then opening up selling the same product with another name on the front of the building. Or adding a bump, ridge, or imperfection in the mold to call it 'their product'. (How much does Microsoft spend on Piracy, or MAC on rogue clones...and how much money do they have to dedicate to it???) Morally it's bankrupt, and the people that support it for the sake of 'saving money' will pay the price in the end.

 

As for the commentary on JDM and markup prices. They have a set culture which allows them to do this. The reason you can go to any small town and find at least ONE speed shop that can get you ANYTHING is because of the strict control of retail pricing and markup between manufacturer and end seller. While the American Model is to buy at wholesale-direct prices from big stores, when's the last time you found S30 Aero Parts in stock at you local speed shop? Common to this day in Japan? Why? Pricing models that SUPPORT this kind of stocking. If it sits on the shelf for a while, and it's marked up 500%, the flooring costs will make it worthwhile.

 

If you only mark it up 3%, it either moves, or you go out of business!

 

I have watched this in Automotive Circles now for close to 35 years, and when I was initiated there was a lot of education from suppliers about patronizing them so they can have the profits to put back into developing obscure parts nobody else will do. I will name names: Cal Clark at Clark's Corvair Parts. While all the other manufacturers have gone out of business, or Cal has bought them up to keep their product available he still provides obscure and impossible to find NLA parts LONG after Chevrolet obsoleted them, and the mass market chains stopped providing CORRECT parts. Get a Corvair Alternator from Autozone and see what you will pay. Then take it apart and see if it's RIGHT!

 

The support and technical assistance you get from the INNOVATORS requires support. You nickle and dime them, and they go out of business. When they are all gone, and you end up making the stuff yourself, don't cry about how all the vendors dried up.

 

"Don't begrudge a man a living." is how I've heard it said in the U.K., and you find guys there who will still cast custom heads, and make body panels for long-extinct cars. That attitude is not present here in the USA. It is in Japan.

 

Beware of chasing the 'best' price, many times it isn't...in the long run the price you pay is far more expensive. Morally, and in the continued availability of parts.

 

BTW, quickly do a CPI cost revision for something like a G-Nose from Nissan circa 1990 to the present day. Before the yen dropped from 268 to 131, a G-Nose from Nissan IN JAPAN was around $1500 (around 400,00 yen) US, and in the USA it was $3000. Inflationary pressures would have made that $1500 now cost $2600...

 

With the current rate of exchange that price (in Yen, in Japan which is what it would still be around...) would be equivalent to $4600 (5300 at Nissan if they kept the same yen markup from the original pricing, if Nissan kept the same markup adjusted for inflation on the DOLLAR cost it would be near $10K!)

 

Look at what they replicants cost. And what the improved American Parts cost here on this shore available from ONE parts source.

 

People remember what it cost 20 years ago and think today's price is outrageous. They never stick it into the CPI Inflation Price Indicator and find out that what was $3000 in 1989 would have t0 sell for at least $5265 today to simply keep up with inflation! If it's cheaper today than yesterday...someone's cut costs or changed content...or both!

Edited April 19, 2010 by Tony D