electrical gremlins

[4u2nV]

for some reason when i hook the battery up it pulls power, so i thought ok maybe the battery has a bad cell or something, even thought its a red top, so i hook the jump box up to just the terminals w/o battery and the starter spins freely but drains the jump box....checked the starter terminals they seem to be working, swapped out the starter with the one from the 280zx, same problem....somewhere some how i'm drawing power, and im not quite sure if it is all hooked up right...wiring diagram mentions altenator has a blk wire a white/blk wire and a yellow wire....well i have a white/rd wire hooked to pos on the alt and it doesn't talk about that in the diagram....ok...also diagram shows power goes from the battery to the starter, then from the starter to a fuse link on to the voltage regulator, well i found the white wire hangin there on the frame rail harness...hooked it to the battery and i get lights, great, but still click click, so i put an in line maxi fuse between the starter and the white wire and it still just spins. when i hook the pos wire to the starter it just spins freely, it did that before i got the jump box, thinking it was just just low voltage on the battery then it stopped spinning freely on the jump box but was goin click click. I'm extremely frustrated but can't give up, any help would be greatly appreciated. It may also help to know that i recieved this car after the previous owner pulled everything but the harness out and rebuilt the engine and put in a new transmission, but he didn't finish hooking everything back up. i've done away with the air pump and am cleaning up the hoses and whatnot, just a journey here and everything is back in that i know of, not sure of the electrical as i'm going but pictures online, chilton, haynes, factory service manual, just tryin to make this thing work. thanks in advance for any help, and yes i've searched and searched and searched and i have like 3 strands of hair left lol.

[rturbo 930]

Don't cross post please, and make an effort to capitalize.

[4u2nV]

My apologies, i was in a rush, and didn't know if the first one posted. Do you have any insight on what i posted?

[19762802+2]

Just edit your post and split it into sections and capitalize and use more periods. Its sort of difficult to read that and I'm sure more people will be willing to help if they can understand it better.

[NewZed]

Don't forget to tell what car and motor you're talking about while you're editing.

[Incubusjunkie614]

i assume you have a stock motor/ trans setup. Based on my experiences with cars in general wiring diagrams do change, mid year, or when ever

the manufacturer felt like it. I'm willing to help, but you are going to have to be more specific. I.e. when does the starter free wheel, key on?

key off? start? stuff like that needs to be more specific. what else happens when the starter goes "click click" i assume that its the starter not getting enough power. does your battery drain when just hooked up, like say over night? Or is just extended cranking?

[4u2nV]

i assume you have a stock motor/ trans setup. Based on my experiences with cars in general wiring diagrams do change, mid year, or when ever

the manufacturer felt like it. I'm willing to help, but you are going to have to be more specific. I.e. when does the starter free wheel, key on?

key off? start? stuff like that needs to be more specific. what else happens when the starter goes "click click" i assume that its the starter not getting enough power. does your battery drain when just hooked up, like say over night? Or is just extended cranking?

 

Ok, it's a 8/71 240z. The battery drains soon as i hook up negative terminal. I hook the jump box to it and it drains that as well. The starter free wheels no matter the key position, something is not hooked up right or is grounded out and i can't figure it out. i'm not even sure if the starter is hooked up properly as i can't find any pics and the diagram is strange, says bat+ goes to starter then to a fuse link then to the white power wire on the frame rail. I made a fusible link using a maxi distro block but that did nothing, I've never heard of hooking constant power to the starter but that seems to be the case here, when i remove it i get nothing. I'm trying to locate my voltmeter to check the starter is getting 12v to the ign switch or dieing off. Even when i just have power goin from bat+ to white wire on frame rail it drains. Jump box drains immediately even when fully charged and not hooked to battery just the terminals. Then there is the matter of the white w/ red strip wire located on the alternator, none of the diagrams i'm looking at mention this wire, just the black grnd, then the clip housing the yellow wire and the white/blck wire...

[Geking]

Okay, first it seems as though you have 2 seperate issues.

 

1.

Your starter is wired to run whenever power is applied, regardless of key position. There are 2 wire connections on the starter. One is the + directly from the battery, while the other is the signal wire (smaller with a blade type connector) from the ignition key. It sounds like both terminals are getting power, spinning and draining your battery.

 

2.

You are looking at the wiring diagram for a 71 Z, right? They had externally regulated alternators. My guess is, when the PO switched motors he upgraded to the internally regulated alternators. I beleve they had 4 connections, a + Lug that went to the battery(white red), some ground connections, then a blue and a white red in a little t plug, whitered also went to the battery. The blue (may not be blue for you) activation/charge light wire. The 2nd wire is keyed to run, so that when the car first starts up it draws power to get the magnetic field in the alt going. This pulls power and would turn on a brake light and a charge warning light in a 78 280Z (only S30 with that alternator, note, this information is FOR THE S30, NOT THE S130 Alt. I don't know anything about S130). As soon as the alt started to make power it no longer needs that electricity so the line goes back up to 12V(no load over a resistor means no drop) What you need to do is:

A: find out if it is the internally or externally regulated alternator.

B: if it is the externally regulated alt, put a 1 watt or more 4-15 Ohm resistor on the signal wire of the alt, and connect the other end to switched 12V Run only

 

More information would allow us to give you better feedback

 

EDIT. I THINK that the 78 alt is the same as the 280ZX alt, but I am not sure.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Geking

[19762802+2]

Are you absolutely sure you did the maxi fuse upgrade right? and did you follow the atlanticZcar instructions? If it was wrong that could cause some problems because that controls your ignition also you need Power going to the Maxi fuse box. Your starter relay may have gone out also I had that problem with my 75 Z, it was a relay under the dash the car would crank and crank but wouldn't start. I'm not sure if you mean by the starter spinning but not turning the engine over or it won't start.

[4u2nV]

Are you absolutely sure you did the maxi fuse upgrade right? and did you follow the atlanticZcar instructions? If it was wrong that could cause some problems because that controls your ignition also you need Power going to the Maxi fuse box. Your starter relay may have gone out also I had that problem with my 75 Z, it was a relay under the dash the car would crank and crank but wouldn't start. I'm not sure if you mean by the starter spinning but not turning the engine over or it won't start.

 

The starter freespools, like i put power to it and it just spins, doesn't engage. I will double check tonight and take some pics for you guys so you can "see" what i'm dealing with. I didn't go by atlanticzcars instructions, i just put a fuse in line from the starter pos to the white power wire on the frame rail, and hooked bat pos to that.

[Geking]

The starter freespools, like i put power to it and it just spins, doesn't engage. I will double check tonight and take some pics for you guys so you can "see" what i'm dealing with. I didn't go by atlanticzcars instructions, i just put a fuse in line from the starter pos to the white power wire on the frame rail, and hooked bat pos to that.

 

So if I understand you right, when you hook up the battery to the starter, while not turning the key, the starter spins but does not crank the motor. If that is the case:

 

There are 2 bolts and a blade connection on a L series starter. One bolt is the + from the battery.

One bolt is the + to the starter from the starter solenoid/relay

the blade is the trigger for the solenoid/relay.

 

Sounds to me like you are hooking up the battery to the wrong bolt on the starter, so that it is bypassing the solenoid/relay and going right to the starter motor.

 

The purpose of the solenoid/relay is to move the starter gear out to engage the flywheel then to provide power to the starter to crank the motor, so in your case the starter gear is staying in the retracted position and is not controlling power on/off to the starter motor.

 

EDIT: Your starter does not have a fuse between it and the battery. The fuse is between the +12 lug on the starter and the car's harness source for +12V

Edited May 20, 2010 by Geking