jeromio Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 If one were to get an LS1 with the ECU from an automatic equipped vehicle (4L60E), would it be possible to use a T56 with it? IOWs, can one (easily) use the auto ECU with the manual? Also, I suppose that apart from the crazy initial price of the T56, the clutch/flywheel are probably around $800, eh? That would pretty much put the keibash on my little plan.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 I'm not positive on this but...with the newer OBDIII computer, the prom can be "flashed" with the info from a manual trans car. A little research might show which wires could be eliminated i.e. lockup converter, auto trans control, and you could pin-out the appropriate wires for the manual trans. Does anyone (other than GM) have harnesses for the LS1? Maybe buying a manual trans wiring harness and flashing the computer would get you there? It's all new fangled, but seems reasonable. I wish I could give you facts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star 1 Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Hey Jeromio When you buy the GM LS1 crate motor the instructions say that the computor is set up for the 4L60 E but that you can use the T56 but that you might see some trouble codes set. However this would not effect they way the motor ran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Locutus Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Exactly what Lone said. When you hook up the scan tool and read codes they will mostly be p1800+ codes(at least for OBDII) I don't know when they switch over to OBDIII but I think that is only the newest of new cars. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 You won't need the special flywheel (unless you need a SFI approved unit) and the T56 should come with the flywheel if its a change out deal from a wrecker. Centerforce dual friction clutch about 500+ bones give or take. Regards, Lone Ps: The flywheel from Centerforce is about 260.00 or so for the old two piece crank, not sure on the one piecer what they're getting for it, about the same I think. This is a SFI unit if your needing that. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted August 20, 2001 Author Share Posted August 20, 2001 What is SFI? This is a 99 Camaro SS motor from a wrecked car. $500 for a clutch!??!! Wow. Whatdya suppose I could get for the 4L60E? I presume that it will only bolt up to another LS1. I think if I do this, I may just want to put the auto in for now, and then switch to the T56 later on. That leaves the problem of what to do about the shifter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star 1 Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 I payed $750 for my 4L60E. I think if I were wanting the T56 I would look for a car that had the LS1 and T56 in it. [ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Lone Star 1 ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted August 20, 2001 Author Share Posted August 20, 2001 Yeah, well, things never quite seem to work out in anything like the smoothest manner for me.... The auto is definately not my first choice. But it is just soooo much cheaper. Plus, there seem to be some T56 demons running amok around here lately... Would you be able to offer any tips on using the F-Body console and shifter? I presume you had to make some modifications? (Hey, that thing has cup holders!) Anyone have any other thoughts on low profile shifter options? I've seen some pictures of cars with aftermarket auto shifters that seem really large and sticky-outy - not really a big fan of that. While I'm bugging you, what did you do for fuel - stock tank, fuel cell, fuel pump? I've got an 80s Camaro side tank radiator in the car now - 2 row, no cooler. I presume it will be adequate. I'd need to get a good electric fan though - and a trans cooler. You used a custom bracket for the A/C? Which compressor are you using and was the pulley on it compatible with the LS1 belts, or did you have to switch things out? Did you use an aluminum F-Body driveshaft? Did the JTR mounts work - any mods necessary? I have a 4.11 in the car now - sounds like that's not gonna work too well unless I wanna snap my neck. I do have a 3.54 that I could use. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 There are cheaper clutches. I belive mie is made by RAM and it sure as heck didn' cost $500. IMO for a mostly stock motor in a lighter car the OEM or aftermarket replacement clutch is fine. I'll let you know if I smoke mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star 1 Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 The console I used was out of a 97 F-body, had to enlarge the shifter hole to mount the shifter. Then I cut the front end of the 97 console off and the rear end of the 73 console off to mate the two consoles. Using the F-body console takes care of several problems. First the F-body shifter has the park, neutral, reverse switch built into it. You also have the reverse, park lockout built in. Also you can use the can't shift unless the brake is applied safty feature, that is also is built in. I payed $100 for mine. I used the JTR TPI book method to make my fuel delivery system. About a 2 cup fuel tank supplied by a 4 psi pump. Then a high pressure pump that feeds a pressure regulator that sends fuel to the motor at 58 psi and returns excess fuel to the small gas tank, there is also a return line from the small tank to the cars tank. The reason for all of this is because as the cars tank gets low on fuel, and you make turns there is enought gas in the small tank to feed the motor where as if you did not have this small tank your high pressure pump would just suck air and the motor would instanly die. All explained in the JTR TPI book. I made the AC mount in my car and mounted the AC compressor in a reversed fashion with the back of the compressor facing the front of the car. Then I ground down the middle section of the twin V belt pully on the AC compressor so that the surpentin belt would ride between the two remaining outside V belt rails. In order to make the compressor run the right direction I installed the compressor on the outside of the surpentin belt, and made a 180 deg lap around the compressor pully. I used the raditor simular to the JTR recomend except mine is all brass and cost $75. IT was a little wider and I had to cut 1/2" out of the rider side frame rail and weld a 3" x 1/2" u channel to make room for the radior. I used the steel drive shaft, its cheaper and smaller diameter making it less likly to hit things like E-brake parts. [ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Lone Star 1 ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest super280z Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 Jeromio, sounds like you've got an interesting situation. im pretty sure that the 4l60e will bolt to any SBC i've seen an LS1 with a muncie m21 on the back of it w/o an adapter plate. you shouldnt have a problem getting rid of it. also if you're wanting to get a t56 setup they are LS1 specific. (sorry if you know this allready) but the harness (with the exception of the 4l60's trans controller cable) will work fine with a manual. as for the ecu i think if you're sending it off to get "burned" you might as well have them tune it with better fuel/air curves while the trans problem gets fixed. hope this helps [ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: super280z ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted August 20, 2001 Share Posted August 20, 2001 I haven't seen anyone mention that an Lt1 T56 is quite different from an LS1 T56 so don't assume standard or auto trannies interchange from an Lt1 to an Ls1 or reverse. I don't know the details but enough to know T56's changed b/t those engine lines & do not crossover so auto's most likely changed as well....(ie. a year or so ago Ls1 T56's were quite cheap as noone needed them or could use them) [ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Ross C ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted August 21, 2001 Author Share Posted August 21, 2001 Okay. Well, I've got a 1999 Camaro SS LS1 with the 4L60E on the way. Can't really afford it. Typical of me. Seemed like a crazy low price, so I bid on it, didn't make the reserve, so I bumped it by $50 - just playing around. But Bingo! $2000 that I now have to scratch around for . I don't think I need to mention my wife's reaction.... Supposedly has 34K miles on it. From a wreck. Needs a water pump. No A/C compressor or p/s pump. Can't use the former, don't need the latter. At this price, I'm thinking I can make due with the auto for the time being - going from 150hp to 300hp should be plenty of consolation... Now I need to get a driveshaft, an electric fan and some kind of shifter. Initially, I'm gonna try and use the 280Z EFI electric fuel pump that I have sitting on a shelf. I'll just grab an aluminum trans cooler from the discount store. I've ordered my JTR manual and will get the brackets cut as soon as it shows up. Which leads me to a question: Anyone ever considered making these from aluminum? I ask because I know the CNC shop I will use will likely try and persuade me to use Al. Are there plans for the trans mount in the JTR book? So, no 7MGTE after all. No 5.0 either. All that talk and I end up going "mainstream". Well, at least relative to this crowd here anywayz . On the Supra motor, I had started looking at the cost of injectors, an I/C and piping, etc. And apart from the mounting of the engine, little things like adapting the driveshaft were bugging me a little. When I put the 429 in my 55, I ended up re-doing it completely because the "first try" just didn't seem optimal. I think that was in my wife's and others' minds when I mentioned the Supra transplant into the Z and they rolled their eyes (that truck is still in "long-term project" mode - in the garage). Basically, I want/need as little downtime on my car as possible. And an LS1 should reward me with a goodly amount of power when I'm done. Be prepared for the torrent of questions..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 That'll make a nice swap, actually quite a good price too. If I could have found a deal like that, I'd have gone automatic in a heartbeat. That would run about 3000.00 out here from a dismantler. I'm sure the mounts could easily be made using Aluminum. I'd use aluminum if I were building another one and had the machine tools to do it, I'm sure it would be plenty strong enough anyone trying to cut 6061 alum plate with a jigsaw would back that up that statement.. haha..) Good luck with it, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 Jeromio, are you talking about the bracket as in set-back plates or just the spacers? You'll see what I'm talking about when you read the JTR manual. I wouldn't use aluminum in an area that was subject to vibration stress. The way the JTR setup is, the set-back plates are steel and take the vibes, while the aluminum spacers just make up clearance between the block and the mounts. Just food for thought. BTW, a nice car like yours deserves a nice motor--you'll be glad you've done this, believe me. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star 1 Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 The LS1 is nothing like the LT1 so JTR mounts will not work unless they have designed some for the LS1. I sold the only pics I had of mine while they were off the car to JTR. Also the drivers side exhaust flange will need to be rotated about 30 degs so that it will lay parallel to the steering shaft. I belive a company call Howle Ind. makes the wireing harness for the LS1 crate motor, I'll check my notes and see if I can find that phone number. If you use the stock harness and computor you will have several problems that will have to be worked out one being the anti theft controlls. You will also need to buy the JTR TPI book to work out the fuel delivery system. Great price fot the complete car. Dealers get $700 for the leather seats along.HO2 senors are $50 each MAF $150 IAT $10 Alternator $200 Starter $250 and on and on! LS1 $3000. to $4000 4L60 E $750 drive shaft Alu $200 and on and on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 ouch, the price or immortality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted August 21, 2001 Author Share Posted August 21, 2001 I just got the engine, trans and ECU, not the whole car. Also getting all sensors and mounts, starter, alternator. I'm also getting a shifter and a steel driveshaft from the guy. He's got a line on a waterpump to replace the broken one too. Not sure what you mean about rotating the exhaust flange - do you mean, cutting it off, and then welding it back on shifted 30 degrees? That's discouraging news about the ECU and the JTR plates. I guess I'll call Mike Knell and see if I can somehow get access to those drawings - can't hurt to ask. Are they different because of the exhaust, or the motormounts? I've seen alot of stuff about people reprogramming the ECU. Perhaps there's info out there on disabling the antitheft.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star 1 Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 Thats correct on the exhaust flange its a triangle and has to be rotated so that the flat part is parallel to the steering shaft, and not the point extending into the steering shaft. The motor mounts on the LS1 are located futher back on the motor. The mounting plate I made was out of 2"x 1/4" mild steel, and extended back from the original Datsun motor mount brackets about 8 & 1/4" rearward. then two 2" x 1/4" plates run perpendecular up to the LS1 motor mount. these plates are about 3" to 3 1/2" apart just make it a tight fit and run the mounting bolt throught the mounting plates and motor mount. the weight of the motor being candleivored out some 8" is two much for the Datsun motor brackets so I made and welded a piece that returns to the Datsun frame just over the Datsun torsion bar bracket (not sure if that what it's called) and used a 3/8" bolt and nut to mount it back to the frame. This mounts the 8" plate front and aft and is very solid. The fuel delevery system is very important be sure and get the JTR TPI book and understand what needs to be done here. Otherwise ever time your low on fuel and make a turn your motor is going to die. There is no gas bowl on a FI car and once you lose fuel pressure the motor dies (Not Good). Also the LS1's uses a differant trany than LT1's so if you do go T56 get one from a 98 or newer F-body. [ August 21, 2001: Message edited by: Lone Star 1 ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest super280z Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 Lone Star is right on this one. and BTW you might want to get a hold of Z- industries. they can do pretty much whatever you want with any ecu, for about 500 bucks. good luck cause now's when the fun starts. [ August 21, 2001: Message edited by: super280z ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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