Procharger

[crazy canuck Z8]

Just wondering if anyone has gone the Procharger route yet on small or big block , I have an F1 and am going to put it in my next 280 zx project,I would love to see some pics if someone has already gone this route. Thanks

[ckolander]

Dude that pic in your sig is insane

[dustin280zx]

I attached a picture of my brother-in-law's F1-R on his engine. I also attached a picture of my engine so you could see the front of my engine is just about even with the shock tower. The same mount and supercharger in the picture fit in my ZX with a sbc and jtr mounts. I cannot remember if there were hood clearance issues though as it was about 4 years ago and my brother-in-law only mounted to tease me about how easy a supercharger is compared to a turbo setup.

 

Edit: As you probably are aware get dimensions from prochager to make sure everything will fit your engine before you buy anything.

Edited July 23, 2010 by dustin280zx

[crazy canuck Z8]

I attached a picture of my brother-in-law's F1-R on his engine. I also attached a picture of my engine so you could see the front of my engine is just about even with the shock tower. The same mount and supercharger in the picture fit in my ZX with a sbc and jtr mounts. I cannot remember if there were hood clearance issues though as it was about 4 years ago and my brother-in-law only mounted to tease me about how easy a supercharger is compared to a turbo setup.

 

Edit: As you probably are aware get dimensions from prochager to make sure everything will fit your engine before you buy anything.

That is such a great set up,I can't believe that one of us has not gone down this road yet. I have already bought my pro charger that is why I wanted to see the set up in someones car,I know that I can make it fit it's really the hood that I am worried about, I don't want to run to big of a hood scoop.I was hoping to be able to fit under a small cowl hood.Thanks for your info.

[zeeboost]

Darius had a procharger on his first setup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3DlpSE1jsE . I'm not sure what he's running now, though. I plan on going the F1 route - I sold my maggie mp122 because I figured it'd be too much low-end torque for that little car. Looking at the setup in the video, it seems like there'd be plenty of room for the F1...but I'll find out first hand. One thing I've always been afraid of with the larger superchargers (especially with a massive cog setup as pictured above) is the extra sideload it puts on the front bearings of the crankshaft, not to mention probably extra stress on the crank itself.

[John Scott]

We know a Paxton has been done, and Procharger on a 4.3 V6. For JTR placement, I always wondered if a custom mounted reverse rotation would work in the Z's bay.

 

FastFrog's Paxton Z:

[sweetride2go]

If you read Darius's ealier threads, he discusses his charger failures(2) and other routs he might have taken in hindsight. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, cause he ended up with a great car, and you would too most likly. Just some things to consider is all.

 

Cheers

Ryan~

[dustin280zx]

Darius had a procharger on his first setup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3DlpSE1jsE . I'm not sure what he's running now, though. I plan on going the F1 route - I sold my maggie mp122 because I figured it'd be too much low-end torque for that little car. Looking at the setup in the video, it seems like there'd be plenty of room for the F1...but I'll find out first hand. One thing I've always been afraid of with the larger superchargers (especially with a massive cog setup as pictured above) is the extra sideload it puts on the front bearings of the crankshaft, not to mention probably extra stress on the crank itself.

 

 

 

If you read Darius's ealier threads, he discusses his charger failures(2) and other routs he might have taken in hindsight. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, cause he ended up with a great car, and you would too most likly. Just some things to consider is all.

 

Cheers

Ryan~

 

 

 

There is a company that makes a crank support to take the load off the crank. Procharger also makes a one way pulley for the cog setup which helps with premature failure of the gears in the supercharger. The one way pulley lets the supercharger free spin as the motor will come down in rpms more quickly than the supercharger. As you know with the cog there is no belt slippage so the person that races every weekend or street drives with cog setups experienced internal problems in there prochargers. Most of these problems were recognized by procharger and a solution was provided.

 

When we first had our f1-r with a 12 rib setup (about 6 years ago) we could barely make 13 psi of boost and shredded belts. The tension was set according to procharger instructions. With the cog we instantly made our desired 22 psi with the same diameter pulleys, but had to limit street driving due to the fear of stated problems. Now with new automatic tensioner designs, people are making 20 pounds of boost on an 8 rib and it still provides adequate belt slippage for street driving.

 

Though superchargers are known for stated problems like side load on crank, premature failures, solutions and new designs have been implemented to solve these problems within the last couple years. The only downfall that I see is cost. For example the one-way pulley for on the crank was 500 dollars(price 4 years ago, probably more now). That's on top of the 4,000 dollars or whatever it is now for a 1000rwhp capable supercharger (i.e. not over reving the charger). This is the main reason I went with a turbo or I would have a procharger setup as they are a hell of a lot easier to tune with blowthru applications.

Edited July 26, 2010 by dustin280zx

[dustin280zx]

We know a Paxton has been done, and Procharger on a 4.3 V6. For JTR placement, I always wondered if a custom mounted reverse rotation would work in the Z's bay.

 

FastFrog's Paxton Z:

 

A reverse mounted charger like on shown in attached picture would not work in my zx as I have looked into it. I would have to lay the radiator flat like shown in attached picture and again hood clearance would come into play. I think that a gear driven supercharger (attaches directly to crank) would work, but that is more for race only applications. The size of the charger in the pic is an F2. A smaller charger like a D1 may work, but for the added cost of a reverse mount it wouldn't be worth it. The reverse mount and gear driven is mainly used for added support in high horsepower (over 1000 rwhp) applications as a side mount like shown before are known to flex.

Edited July 26, 2010 by dustin280zx

[frank280zx]

i have been thinking about pro charging my zx lately.. as on a SBC it way less complex than the twin turbo route i planned.

Seems to me you should be able to mount it on a stock sbc location.. but then agian i have yet to gather parts and test fit

[dustin280zx]

i have been thinking about pro charging my zx lately.. as on a SBC it way less complex than the twin turbo route i planned.

Seems to me you should be able to mount it on a stock sbc location.. but then agian i have yet to gather parts and test fit

 

The side mount that I first position is the "stock" sbc location. It will fit but hood clearance is the only issue. From the experienced I have gained with forced induction, Twin turbos would be more simple and I wish that is what I would've done. Yes you have to have two of everything, but two 3 inch downpipes are a heck of alot easier to route than one 5" or 4". You also have two small turbos to place which is easier to place than say a S475 borg warner. If I had it to do again my motor would consist of two Master Power T70's with the .68 A/R. Can pick them up in the U.S. for about 500 each new if you look hard enough and are patient. Excellent response, top end, and 600 rwhp on 93 octane all day long with low boost(between 10-15 depending on motor combination). You can also use the SSautochrome headers so most of the work is done.

 

Edit: I see that you mostly do autocross so a supercharger would probably be a better choice as the power curve is more linear.

Edited July 26, 2010 by dustin280zx

[zeeboost]

sweetride2go - Can you link any of the threads you're referring to? I searched Darius's posts but didn't find him mentioning much about the prochargers. However, I did find out that he's running an F1-R procharger, so good news, it fits!

 

Frank - Do you have any other info on the company that makes the crank support? I've looked into a gear drive for the procharger, but it was roughly $3k and I have a hard time justifying spending that kind of money on something that has been proven to work well with a belt and pulley. I haven't read about their one-way pulley, so that'll be one thing for me to look into.

[dustin280zx]

sweetride2go - Can you link any of the threads you're referring to? I searched Darius's posts but didn't find him mentioning much about the prochargers. However, I did find out that he's running an F1-R procharger, so good news, it fits!

 

Frank - Do you have any other info on the company that makes the crank support? I've looked into a gear drive for the procharger, but it was roughly $3k and I have a hard time justifying spending that kind of money on something that has been proven to work well with a belt and pulley. I haven't read about their one-way pulley, so that'll be one thing for me to look into.

 

If I am not mistaken I believe that Darius used the camaro/firebird mounting and he is using a F1-R. Thats what it looks like at least.

 

procharger makes a support bracket along with some other companies (RCD Engineering, New Era Racecraft). You can google "sbc crank support" or "procharger crank support" and read some reviews on which one people like best.

 

Check out "http://jakesperformancefabrication.com/" He should be able to hook you up with a crank support. He seems like a real good guy, though I am not a customer, just talked to him about fabrication.

Edited July 26, 2010 by dustin280zx

[sweetride2go]

"ya I wont turn down the boost, I got the 65lb injectors for 600+hp and the speed pro full sequential computer, I was thinking about a monster turbo because I'm tired of how unrelaible the blower is, always throwin belts, blowin up, but I already have it and a turbo setup would cost me to much$$$. I like the blower when it works, the sound is crazy, it was so loud it sounded like a airplane, people would trip out when I rolled by and thats what I liked, I'm just gonna get some stickier tires, I would be happy if I could get it to hook in 3rd."

 

"So every time I have driven it something goes wrong, this time racing chuck again the D-1 that I thought was so bad ass blew up on me with probably less than 20 miles WHAT THE F----K I'm going to fly to kansaass where the make these things and ring somebody neck to get out my frustrations. I dont know why this happened,my setup is perfect, I've talked to them numerous time and made sure I'm doing everything right.My advice dont ever buy a blower, take the 3 grand and invest in the motor and you will probably make just as much power with less heat less things to blow up,they sound cool look cool and sometimes make your car go very fast,but for me has been a bunch of problems, from blowing up 2 blowers and one engine, I wish I never bought one, but now I'm far to deep to turn back now, I guess I'll box up the D-1 and send it back to kansas with one of my dogs turds in the box. $2250 for 20 miles, not worth it, Luckily it is fairly easy for me to take it out,as I have done it so many times, but if I had a late model camaro 93-up I would have certainly shot myself by now as you can't even see the blower, or even half the motor. I guess I'll update when I talk to the morons at ATI, They better be very nice and understanding, as I'd hate to have to buy a plane ticket!!!"

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php?/topic/412-71-240-w-stroked-383-lt1-and-procharger-d1/page__st__40

 

Page 3, a couple more on the above.

 

Cheers

Ryan~

[dustin280zx]

I'm tired of how unrelaible the blower is, always throwin belts, blowin up, but I already have it and a turbo setup would cost me to much$$$.

 

Symptoms stated is common sign of bearing failure on these early prochargers (realize darius's post was in 2000 before he had the F1-R). As stated before procharger realized this and redesigned the internals years ago. Most charger failures today are due to operator error such as not changing oil or oil leaking out, improper belt tension (less common due to the automatic tension design), and over revving the charger.

 

But this is caution when buying a used charger, see when the manufacture date was and if it was an earlier one (I think before 2003 or 2004) look to see if it has the updated internals. Should be a marking on the ID plate if ever sent back to ATI. Or just buy a new one from ati with the warranty and not have any worries.

Edited July 27, 2010 by dustin280zx