speeder Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Just recently I have seen 2 instances - one on my car - of the Aeromotive A1000 (P/N 13101) having a bad diaphagm that allows raw gas to be introduced to the intake. Anyone else seen the same thing? Maybe the result of more alcohol in the gas? The things are rebuildable for cheap but I'm thinking that if there's a problem with these regulators I will switch brands. This regulator was probably responsible for the rings' failure to seal on my newly built 2JZ stroker. The leakage increased progressively so the problem was not immediately obvious tuning - wise on a new engine and new ECM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 You got it to work right without disassembling it and cleaning out the aluminum chips before installation? Wow! To have it work long enough to fail two diaphragms looks like great service life from MPE! On another note, diaphragm failures (premature) are usually chemical or stress related (if the materials are up to par)... If you haven't twisted the diaphragm so it's not pinched in operation, then that leaves chemical attack and materials (which could be inter-related.) What does the failure point look like? Does the diaphragm look cracked and brittle, or is it abraded? Is the elastomer rolling apart in little balls and all mushy, or flaking off in chunks which have sharp edges to the resultant particles? A photo of a failed diaphragm would do wonders if you have one. All that being said, I don't know that it's the fault of alcohol being in the fuel, but more a choice on cheap materials being employed in the construction. I have seen similar things on knock-off BOV and Wastegates made in China versus being made in Japan. The 'rubber' diaphragms were just crap on some of the Chinese Stuff. In some cases, putting a Japanese Name-Brand repair kit into the Knock-Off Body solved the issue pointing to substandard materials (it looks the same, but doesn't PERFORM the same) on the part of the Chinese Engineering Team. Or on the MBA's that decided to go with SBR instead of High Temp Red Silicone because it was 20 yuan cheaper per unit... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 On an aside... a microdrill on the pressure side of the regulator will introduce an air leak to the manifold. But a small one. On a MAP based system that means you use minimally less idle air bypass. under boost you have a miniscule leak of air. But on shutdown if you see fuel leaking... It sounds stupid I know, but take a look at that 1-80 drill set and see if you can live with a vacuum leak that big if you wrap a piece of foam over the body of the reg... "Tatletale Hole" There are ways to set these up so they don't vent externally as well but it's far more complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradyzq Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 On an aside... a microdrill on the pressure side of the regulator will introduce an air leak to the manifold. But a small one. On a MAP based system that means you use minimally less idle air bypass. under boost you have a miniscule leak of air. But on shutdown if you see fuel leaking... It sounds stupid I know, but take a look at that 1-80 drill set and see if you can live with a vacuum leak that big if you wrap a piece of foam over the body of the reg... "Tatletale Hole" There are ways to set these up so they don't vent externally as well but it's far more complex. Thank you Tony! That's really good to know, and is an "outside the box" type of solution, which of course makes it very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 I would think a small sized capacitance sensor in the bell of the regulator that gave an alarm light would work as well, given it's likely grounded pretty well on the fuel rail to the manifold. Sensor gets wet, gives 'broken diaphragm' warning light. No vacuum leak, either! But more expensive and likely some electronics knowledge needed to implement as well as finding a small enough sensor that will fit in the regulator body, and not hinder proper function of the device! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Purple240zt Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Well that is too bad to hear. My Aeromotive regulator has had the same diaphragm for 12 years, and I bought it used! Tony, neat idea on that dribble hole. What about just installing a sight glass type of situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 That would be under the 'venting without external air source...' and is kind of difficult to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speeder Posted October 28, 2010 Author Share Posted October 28, 2010 You got it to work right without disassembling it and cleaning out the aluminum chips before installation? Wow! LOL Tony another "swarf" reference! I am currently in the upstate New York mountains with limited internet accesss and am just now checking back in on this - The failures I mentioned were on two different regulators/ cars and both FPRs were unmolested from the factory. Maybe coincidental to have two failures so close together, but I thought I would ask to see if anyone else is seeing the same thing. I have installed maybe 20-30 of these things and have found them to be 100% reliable until now. I don't think I need any hightech failure warning, but am really sensitive to fuel pressure malfunctions - I once destroyed the sweetest turbo L I ever had because an FPR reference hose failed. I have used stainless braid covered teflon AN hose for this ever since. The failure on my car this time was more insidious in that it appears to have been a progressive tear/hole in the diaphragm that showed good fuel pressure the whole time, but was dumping more and more gas into the intake. I'm a bit ashamed to admit that it took so long for me to diagnose the problem. When I get back to civilization and get time to take the thing apart I'll post some pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 (edited) Swarf has been my bane the past week in Japan. We had a sudden rotor failure, and when disassembling the machine at site didn't really see anything. But back at the shop, found an aluminum chip in an injection nozzle feeding the side of the machine that failed. This is VERY odd as we have 100% wetted parts of stainless steel in the oil system, and the gearbox is an obvious ferrous casting. So the question is 'WTF is this aluminum chip doing in there, and where did it come from?' I don't think this one had caused preblems yet. But in another incidence back in May there was a serious swarf infarction that took out the high speed bearings on another machine with a similar non-ferrous swarf chunk in the nozzle. But there was ferrous stuff in the bearings like a gallery wasn't flushed properly at assembly or something. I can live with that one, we can see where it came from on THAT machine. This one.... WTF? Where did the mystery swarf come from? It almost appears to contradict the disproval of spontaneous generation! On the Aeromotive Regs, JeffP had one all full of machining chips that wouldn't let the regulator seat so it would bleed down and was hard to adjust. Take it apart and clean it all up...and notice there are cuts in the diaphragm... Replace and since then it's worked flawlessly. But that first attempt at fuel regulation was a dismal abyss of failure. A vendor who saw the install commented similar items had occurred to his customers. Maybe they had a bad batch and some are on the shelf? I'd disassemble and check like I do with Harbor Freight stuff...just to give me peace of mind. They never fail 'rich safe' damnit! Edited October 28, 2010 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Here's some nice pictures and info from another forum: ------------------------------ There is been a lot of speculation on how this regulators are fabricated, and the quality of their components, so I decided it was a good Idea to take them apart side by side and evaluate their differences. Please let it be known that we fully stand behind any of this 3 regulators as we sell hundreds of them with a slim to none failure rate. However I know pictures speak more than 1000 words. And although they are very similar parts they have a few differences. Some are simply cosmetic, but there is also some differences it comes to their internals. I used standard -10 regulators because, that would be the way to do apples to apples comparison. No matter which size inlet you get the internal components are shared thru out the manufactures line up. Also know that I will be adding a Weldon regulator in the coming days to this thread. Looks wise the Fuelab one that comes in the most variety of colors as well as the smallest one of the group. The Aeromotive stands as the biggest unit, but also is the only one that comes fully assembled including the adjustment screw and the bracket to hold it. Both SX and Fuelab come with a bag that includes adjustment screw, bracket and hardware. Once a part is very easy to start telling differences, the Aeromotive is the only one that uses a stamped piece of sheet metal as spring cap, both the SX and Fuel Lab use a CNC piece of brass, but only the fuel lab has a ball in the top for the adjustment screw to sit against an important feature, so that the screw doesn’t wear the metal out over time. Once disassembled you can see, that the bottom of the diaphragm has a ball that sits against the base of the regulator in all of them, and the rubber material is obviously shaped differently in all of them. Even though to the naked eye it appears and feels to be the same type of material in all of them Like I said I would be doing the same with a Weldon in the near future, but for now be confident with any of this regulators you will get a quality piece. The only differences between them are look, price, and some structural differences that could sway a person one way or the other. Weldon time. Main points that I would like to highlight -CNC Hat like the SX and FueLab, However the ball on the top of it is not fixed so it simply rests there between the adjustment screw and the hat. -It is also the only one that has a sleeve in the bottom of the spring so that the spring sharp edge is not rested directly against the soft diaphragm material. - And for the return port It uses a sleeve inside the return port that is removable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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