Identify this Intake Manifold

[rayaapp2]

Okay so I picked these up today. They are Solex 40mm carbs. Their story is un-important as I cannot verify anything. They are covered in old gas... and they smell pretty bad. So I purchased them as cores and planning on rebuilding them and adding a good aluminum heat shield. The Air filters and Air horns are not compatible with each other so its one or the other. I will most likely build a box for these that resembles the S20 air box. Anyway back to the issue at hand. I have no plans to use the manifold that came with these. It could be modified to what I want out of it, but Im already setup with a Mikuni short/medium length manifold. So Id like to at least figure out what I can about this manifold before I cross it off the list completely. Its actually longer than the Mikuni manifold that I have, which I understand from most to be better for torque.

 

So without getting to caught up in side conversation about which is better or whatever can you guys identify this manifold?

Once we can do that conjecture all you want. I love to hear opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is the Mikuni Manifold that Im planning on using... carbs were not included(thats how it was stored)

 

 

 

 

 

BTW: Dont let TonyD beat you to the punch! You know he will! :DROFL

 

Thanks Guys,

Edited December 19, 2010 by rayaapp2

[z-ya]

It's not a Datsun Competition manifold as those only have one vacuum port (cylinder 6). Yours appears to have an additional vacuum log that connects the middle 4 cylinders. No vacuum can be used from cylinder 1.

[rayaapp2]

It's not a Datsun Competition manifold as those only have one vacuum port (cylinder 6). Yours appears to have an additional vacuum log that connects the middle 4 cylinders. No vacuum can be used from cylinder 1.

 

I checked and there is NO internal passage(balance port/tube) inside that "vacuum log" All the ports that are available are visable in the pictures. The one hole in the center facing where the head would be located is not a port! Its just a bolt hole for ? Other than that I thought it was very odd that the manifold would have manifold vacuum ports on all but 2... maybe three if you exclude the brake booster. For tuning purposes I would want manifold vacuum ports on each individual runner to run a flow synch on them from like say a motorcycle. Then when they were not in use for synch I would have them connected to a balance tube that had PCV on one end and brake booster on the other.

I have no idea why these would only exist on some of the runners... unless someone added them in for their purposes. EDIT: WHATs the deal with this?

There are 4 numbers on the "vacuum log" webing underneath. Ill have to go out and look at them and get back with you guys about them.

Edited December 19, 2010 by rayaapp2

[Tony D]

It's the standard JDM casting everybody used. FET put their name on it, either as "FET" or with the Kanji for "Kyukto" and that's how you can distinguish it.

Lynx, Piper, and Cannon all put their name on it.

The Japanese Casters though just pumped those babies out, sometimes you get a name, sometimes not.

 

They came in intermediate lengths for Saloon and Sports cars with different strut tower clearance dimensions (think Skyline, Laurel, etc...) There's myriad combinations out there. I have several just like it. I am happy with them, like Pete mentioned it's not a 'Datsun Comp' but it's what it's copied from...in the Japan Market the OEMs were very performance oriented, and did a lot of development. Why innovate when you can immitate? Goes the same today, and was the same then. It worked, they copied it. Saves development costs.

 

Mikuini, though, did a little bit of work and came up with something different than everybody else out there.

[HS30-H]

It's an 'Ohtsuka' inlet manifold, dating from around 1979~80.

 

FET put their name on it, either as "FET" or with the Kanji for "Kyukto" and that's how you can distinguish it.

 

[corrections department]That'll be 'KYOKU TO', Tony.[/corrections department]

 

The Far East Trading / F.E.T. / Kyokuto manifolds were solely used by FET, were quite distinctive and always 'signed'. This Ohtsuka manifold is quite different.

[rayaapp2]

It's the standard JDM casting everybody used. FET put their name on it, either as "FET" or with the Kanji for "Kyukto" and that's how you can distinguish it.

Lynx, Piper, and Cannon all put their name on it.

The Japanese Casters though just pumped those babies out, sometimes you get a name, sometimes not.

 

They came in intermediate lengths for Saloon and Sports cars with different strut tower clearance dimensions (think Skyline, Laurel, etc...) There's myriad combinations out there. I have several just like it. I am happy with them, like Pete mentioned it's not a 'Datsun Comp' but it's what it's copied from...in the Japan Market the OEMs were very performance oriented, and did a lot of development. Why innovate when you can immitate? Goes the same today, and was the same then. It worked, they copied it. Saves development costs.

 

Mikuini, though, did a little bit of work and came up with something different than everybody else out there.

 

 

Unless you guys can prove him wrong I believe he beat you all to the punch as I predicted... Whats funny is Tony is more likely to answer a post on these forums than an email... ahem.. cough.. cough, pardon me. lol

 

 

Alright open to conjecture... So whats the deal with "something different" Personally I like the Mikuni for TB replacements and injector positioning for future upgrading. For now however I like the mikunis manifold because it has individual manifold vacuum ports and its still long enough(even though it apears short) to aid in torque production(or so is my belief no facts to back this). My only concern is all the bends the flow takes with the mikuni... no straight shots... 45* - 45* then through the head at almost 90*... It does appear that Mikuni took correctional steps at the bends on the inside though for the first 45... wide and high outer radius. I need to take a closer look to see whats going on there. I really need to invest in a set of these...

 

to get what I want out of either manifold... oh and a couple flavors of carbide grinding tips...

Edited December 19, 2010 by rayaapp2

[HS30-H]

It's an 'Ohtsuka' inlet manifold, dating from around 1979~80.

 

Repeated for the hard of hearing.....

[rayaapp2]

sorry, we were posting at the same time apparently.

Besides who can hear anything on this website?

 

Poor eyesite is a different problem though.

[blue72]

I have pictures of a Hayashi Racing manifold which looks exactly like the one you posted except for the fact that "Hayashi Racing L28" is cast into it.

[rayaapp2]

 

FET would have been a NICE manifold...

 

I can find nothing on "KYOKU TO" manifolds

[HS30-H]

I can find nothing on "KYOKU TO" manifolds

 

Try here: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30978

 

To clarify; 'Kyoku-To' = 'Far East'. Early products of 'Far East Trading' were branded with two Kanji characters, reading 'Kyoku-To'. Later products with the acronym 'F.E.T.'

 

 

 

 

 

Did I mention that your blue-painted manifold is an 'Ohtsuka'?

[HS30-H]

The one hole in the center facing where the head would be located is not a port! Its just a bolt hole for ?

 

That bolt hole is for the ( obviously missing ) support which would have held the outer Bowden cable for a cable-throttle version. Depending on what model of Nissan it was mounted on, both cable and rod actuated linkages could be used.

[rayaapp2]

...

Did I mention that your blue-painted manifold is an 'Ohtsuka'?

 

 

Yeah I couldnt find anything on my manifold either, but I already have it in my hands so I didnt ask about it again. I was mainly looking to see what else would pop up that might be available. I tried searching several different ways using google. I promise Im not totally stupid. The picture I posted was the only thing I could find. The CZcar stuff didnt pop up in my google searches.

 

Thanks for the information and your patience!

Edited December 20, 2010 by rayaapp2

[Tony D]

The mikuini is a 'straight shot' to the back of the intake valve if you concentrate on raising the roof of the intake port and not hogging out the bottom of the intake runner.

 

As for Pinyin or Romanization of foreign languages... or not being particularly interested in form for the most part when dealing with matters where the recipient will neither need nor particularly appreciate the information I plead Guilty.

 

We could turn this into a defferentiation of Kanji Characters dealing with Katakana and Hiragana for which 'TO' has likely two different symbols, one being phonetic only, and the other being idogrammatic. In that case, a dispute of the character said to be "TO" could continue... but it's irrelevant to the discussion.

 

That which is typed in between airline flights in 30 seconds may differ in content than that which is typed when in one's own office at home with reams of background documentation to refer.

 

Mine was the former, not the latter. But does it matter? I posit not. Content is the same, outcome the same. Same as OBX and Quaife...

[Tony D]

There are 4 numbers on the "vacuum log" webing underneath. Ill have to go out and look at them and get back with you guys about them.

 

They are the casting number---I lay money they are the same as the one I have. As I said, 'standard casting' there are some which are slightly shorter and have a different number, they would be for X application with strut tower clearance. Another for application Y would have another number and be slightly longer. "1006" comes to mind. These were in every performance shop you went to in Japan in the 80's. Like someone said "Mine is exactly like this with "Hayashi Racing L28" Cast into it"---like I said immitation as opposed to innovation. Everybody and every culture does it. If it works why bother, slap your name on it and sell into the market or sell someone elses product and pay their markup first.

 

Knocking off the pattern on this manifold would not be difficult. And like Alan Mentinoned there is a throttle cable version with a heavy 5mm bent steel arm that bolted to the manifold in some applications. I have one of those as well. I think this is the one currently on my 73...

[emeraldlion]

Stuff like this ^ makes me feel like a dumb closed minded american stereotype. I really need to learn more about foreign cultures and languages.

[Tony D]

Oh, and if you care to look closely, the 'vacuum ports' are arranged so you are monitoring vacuum on the back barrel of each carb (save the last one since it has Brake Booster hole) for balancing duties.

 

You CAN'T adjust barrel-to-barrel synch on Mikuinis when the throttle shaft is twisted so a port on each runner would be redundant. Same as checking with a Uni-Sync. Many just go to the front barrel on carb 1, 2, & 3. Some of us also check 1 against 2, 3 against 4, and 5 against 6 to check for the known bending shaft phenomenon.

 

For general synch though, the 'motorcycle manometer' will hook up just fine on the ports provided.

 

If you have an ITB, or some Dellortos and other carbs with separate bypass 'trim' screws, then you can do it port-by-port.

 

Why does Mikuini have them on all six? Who knows, who cares? Hint: EFI MAP LOG...

[rayaapp2]

I like to check all six to verify other engine conditions as well... why pull a plug or valve cover when you can simply plug in a vacuum line and confirm a flow issue with a particular cylinder then diag from there. Also if you have all six available installing an external balance tube to reconnect the brake booster to to get a better signal out to that... hot cam and one runner just sounds like a bad idea to me in theory. I was shortly tempted to just have a buddy tig weld in a square tube between runners 1 & 2 as well as 5 & 6 then drill straight through into the that existing bar and out the other side to make an internal balance tube. Its easier just to buy the correct part though and use an external balance tube that can be isolated and will retain unbiased sync and future diagnosis ports for me.

 

as for the knock off, probably... after doing the RB intake manifold I can see that happening easily. Hopefully the knock offs weren't cheap Chinese replicas like some of the GReddy knockoffs. I didnt even like the ISIS knock off. I ended up with the genuine article for my RB25. I have had several knock off RB's in my hands and nothing compared to the real thing though. Quality Casting being the point.

 

The mikuini is a 'straight shot' to the back of the intake valve if you concentrate on raising the roof of the intake port and not hogging out the bottom of the intake runner.

...

 

Who hogs out the short radius/bottom of either I or E runner? That sounds completely counter intuitive to everything Ive learned(Not an expert here, but Ive been doing my research). I thought focus was on the sides and long radius/roof of the runners anyway? (sorry just stumped as to why you said that) Or are you referring to "high porting" or relocating the port itself? example original Electromotive cylinder heads with 60* ports rather than the 90* or close to 90* stock ports.

 

Will get back to you guys about the casting numbers on the bottom for a VR internet cookie...lol

Edited December 21, 2010 by rayaapp2

[Tony D]

An external vacuum log makes more sense. it becomes VERY difficult to properly mixture adjust at idle when a balance tube is not removable.

 

As for checking vacuum on each cylinder---what does it tell you? That you have to pull a valve cover or plug for further diagnosis if it's low?

 

As for 'hot cam and one log brake booster' think about what you are saying Ray.....

 

At high rpm, when you need to use the brakes, are you at WOT? Does the vacuum not jump sky-high when the throttle is even slightly closed?

 

Repetitive brake application in a parking lot at idle may cause booster related issues. But few and far between. On the road, the single pickup works just fine. There's a reason only one is used...it works and keeps the casting cheap! (and more to the point, thinking the same thing 20 years ago I hooked them all up thinking brake booster performance will be improved....I couldn't tell anything different.)

[rayaapp2]

An external vacuum log makes more sense. it becomes VERY difficult to properly mixture adjust at idle when a balance tube is not removable.

 

As for checking vacuum on each cylinder---what does it tell you? That you have to pull a valve cover or plug for further diagnosis if it's low?

 

As for 'hot cam and one log brake booster' think about what you are saying Ray.....

 

At high rpm, when you need to use the brakes, are you at WOT? Does the vacuum not jump sky-high when the throttle is even slightly closed?

 

Repetitive brake application in a parking lot at idle may cause booster related issues. But few and far between. On the road, the single pickup works just fine. There's a reason only one is used...it works and keeps the casting cheap! (and more to the point, thinking the same thing 20 years ago I hooked them all up thinking brake booster performance will be improved....I couldn't tell anything different.)

 

If I am experiencing something weird that isnt obvious the first thing I check is carbs for some reason(SU carbs). So while Im already there its easy to pin point a cylinder out without doing much dis-assembly. If it ends up being something stupid like a bad plug wire or whatever you be able to focus on that cylinder without wasting time pulling all the plugs, the whole valve cover off and all that crud first... The road might lead to pulling that stuff off, but it makes an easy first check point for me. My diagnosis is based on SU's though so that may change as I adjust to a different style carb.

 

With an external balance tube I suppose it wouldnt matter anyway about the brake booster signal and it could be left in its current position. But yeah I can see the error in my previous thought process there.

This is where I pulled the idea from. Un-needed for now, but its laying plans for more expensive upgrades later...

1/2" for the balance tube / plenum log should be more than adequate.

Our Bonneville car has like 75KPA vacuum at idle, and a 1/2" pipe manifold with 1/8" taps to each runner gives more than enough vacuum for the brake function as well as a nice smooth MAP signal for the ECU.

 

TEC2 system recomended 1/2" log, and that's what we ended up with. For older manifolds without such a plenum for the MAP and Vacuum Accessory taps, a piece of Fuel Rail Stock gives a nice compliment and can be piggybacked next to your fuel rail as a visually pleasing addition when you make the conversion to EFI (or to simply get someplace to take a vacuum reading that doesn't bang your gauge to death!)

 

I previously ran my 240ZT with some 1/8" npt nipple barbs in each runner, to 1/4 tubing, which had 3/8"x1/4"x3/8" "T" fittings to manifold it all together and even that worked as a balance tube quite well with Mikuinis. The engine really smoothed out when it was put on compared to it's actions under boost before the balance tube was in place. I guess that would be equivalent to a 3/8" log, huh?

Making my own EFI intake... The First Casting

 

 

 

And for the Cookie casting numbers were "1001"

casting located on the bottom left of the structural bar in this picture

Edited December 24, 2010 by rayaapp2