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87mm Piston Options


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Hey guys, so about a year ago I had a set of forged Ross pistons from MSA that I was going to put into my turbo block. Basically, everything was ready to go, my block had been machined and prepared, I just had to file my rings down to spec and drop those sexy pieces of forged goodness into their 87mm homes. The only issue was, 6 months prior I left for the Army. When I came back home I lost interest in spending money on Z's, (I know.. blasphemy :rolleyes: ) so I sold them and kept the block just in case.

 

My problem now lies with being bit by the bug once more and trying to locate pistons that will fit my needs as I can't justify spending that much money on premium forged ones like before. I feel my power goals are too modest (sub 300hp) to fork out 800 bucks alone on those a second time. I've searched the forums and the web alike but I am still not sure what pistons from other vehicles or makes will work for my application.

 

Basically, I want anything that is quality and will fit my 87mm bore. Cast pistons are fine, I just want quality. Any recommendations because I cant find anything that I know will work due to my ignorance on the subject. Should I just go to 89mm and use the KA pistons that are common in the 3.1L builds? How can I tell if a piston is compatible with the l28 Rods?

 

Thanks guys, sorry for the noobness... Ive been on here to long for this nonsense on my part :lol:

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87 mm is a very common VW overbore... I don't know if anybody used them yet, but sets of VW pistons are cheap in comparison to others. So what if you chuck the jugs away? I think you could buy two sets of 87's and have two spares (with rings!) for far less than $800!

 

CAST

 

FORGED MAHLE

 

Pin Diameter is 22 mm, full floater with retainers.

Edited by Tony D
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87 mm is a very common VW overbore... I don't know if anybody used them yet, but sets of VW pistons are cheap in comparison to others. So what if you chuck the jugs away? I think you could buy two sets of 87's and have two spares (with rings!) for far less than $800!

 

CAST

 

FORGED MAHLE

 

Pin Diameter is 22 mm, full floater with retainers.

 

I see another little secret had been freed from Tony D vault..

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I haven't checked these out guys, it's been in the back of my head ever since I realized the Z's standard first overbore is the same as the 1641 I have in my old bus.

 

They come in about 1000 different pin heights as well, to accomodate strokes from the stock 69mm, to over 84mm---meaning to me there should be some combination that should work well with some long-rod long stroke combination.

 

Due to the aircooled temperatures, they should be high-silicon for lower expansion in the jugs. I've got over 65K miles on my engine without a hiccup, and I have overheated it for one reason or another several times.

 

They are flat tops, and pretty thick domes. It's not uncommon for guys to shim the bottom of the barrels for deck height, or simply cut the piston tops to make deck height on some setups.

 

The VW has 87, 88, 90.5, 92, 94mm Jugs and Pistons as pretty standard. They have some smaller ones as well in the stock sizes, but they don't always come in the variety of stroker pin heights, etc... I mean the VW guys use Chevy 5.700" rods! So you want to talk 'cheap performance'? Go check the prices for some really good lightweight 5.700" Chevy Rods...and remember for that $237 you get enough to do TWO complete VW's! :D

 

Most of the specs for pin height and that are out there, and the longer stroke kits will have very short skirts with cutouts to clear the counterweights (hell we got to machine the cam to clear the crank counterwieghts on the big stuff!) so they won't look so "industrial"...

 

Someone wants to look into it further, have at it. I'm busy as hell now, this was just the opportunity to brain fart it out there---you can see the pricing... Might be worth it if pin offset is right, I mean hell---Vega Pistons and XL500 Honda Pistons work, why not VW's? It would be nice to know for sure, because that 69mm crank is the same stroke as the L20A, and putting that in various larger bore engines might work out for a displacement class break proposed at El Mirage...

 

Parts is Parts!

Edited by Tony D
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87 mm is a very common VW overbore... I don't know if anybody used them yet, but sets of VW pistons are cheap in comparison to others. So what if you chuck the jugs away? I think you could buy two sets of 87's and have two spares (with rings!) for far less than $800!

 

CAST

 

FORGED MAHLE

 

Pin Diameter is 22 mm, full floater with retainers.

 

Wiki D leaks.... :D

 

Very interesting.

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That's funny! :lol:

 

Ok, the next logical question is: Can the standard Nissan connecting rod small end be bored out to fit a VW 22mm gudgeon pin safely? If it can be done, will this be the new "weak link" in the bottom end?

 

What is the 'standard' setup on the VW'? Would it be a press fit jobbie, a full floater or does it matter?

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That's funny! :lol:

 

Ok, the next logical question is: Can the standard Nissan connecting rod small end be bored out to fit a VW 22mm gudgeon pin safely? If it can be done, will this be the new "weak link" in the bottom end?

 

What is the 'standard' setup on the VW'? Would it be a press fit jobbie, a full floater or does it matter?

 

Someone has not 'read the book'! Reaming the small end for a bushing (thin wall bronze) is no different than a 22mm pin. When you consider most performance applications use a 22mm pin, and they bush the small end for THAT....

 

Reaming the small end of the rod for a steel-to-pin floater will be easily accomplished. All that remains to discover is pin height and then just how much you can cut off the skirts and under the head to lighten it up (if so inclined)--those Mhale pistons are probably some of the more expensive units out there as well.

 

Really, for guys looking for CAST pistons, this might be a really good deal as well if the pin heights can be discovered. I know they are listed but don't have the time to pursue it right now.

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  • 5 months later...

I came across this thread while looking for something else, and it got me thinking,

I found this

 

http://www.motorenteile.mahle.com/eLIZA/mahle/query/product/kolben/byParams?cocoon-xmlform-view=KolbenCriteria&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2Fdurchmesser%2Foperator=delta01&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2Fdurchmesser%2FstrValue=87&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FfeuerstegHoehe%2Foperator=delta01&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FfeuerstegHoehe%2FstrValue=&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FkompressionsHoehe%2Foperator=delta01&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FkompressionsHoehe%2FstrValue=&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FaugenAbstand%2Foperator=delta01&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FaugenAbstand%2FstrValue=&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2Fueberhoehung%2Foperator=delta01&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2Fueberhoehung%2FstrValue=&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FmuldenTiefe%2Foperator=delta01&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FmuldenTiefe%2FstrValue=&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FgesamtLaenge%2Foperator=delta01&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FgesamtLaenge%2FstrValue=&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FmuldenDurchmesser%2Foperator=delta01&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FmuldenDurchmesser%2FstrValue=&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FbolzenDurchmesser%2Foperator=delta01&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FbolzenDurchmesser%2FstrValue=&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FbolzenLaenge%2Foperator=delta01&%2Fcriteria%2Fabmessungen%2FbolzenLaenge%2FstrValue=&cocoon-action-136116588c8b71036f598f7973214f258e640547%3AKolbenCriteria%3AqueryExec=Start+Search

 

not sure how to read it all, but may be useful to someone else.

 

Nigel

Edited by Noddle
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