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After doing some reading.. I blocked off the upper grill *pics*

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I dont know $150 alot, I can deal with it.

 

Well today I cut out the upper piece that stretches from the top of the grill to above the radiator (like ZR8ED's). Fits good but I dont know how to mount it, any ideas?

 

I should have mentioned it in the post above but if you mention my name (Dragonfly or Miles) he will give you at least 10% off the listed price (that goes for anyone). With that kit you get the templates as well as all the hardware and the correct tension pressure catridges and of course full step by step instructions.

 

I'm going to have to go back and look at ZR8ED's pics again to see exactly what you have done, then I will probably toss my 2 cents out there for you.

 

Dragonfly

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If you take a closer look at ZR8ED's pictures you will notice that to the sides of the radiator he has pieces of metal (ends of the box) he is using them as his attachment points. I had the same thing on my old setup, the two pieces that make up the sides of the box have a 1/2" lip bent at 90*, then the lips have holes drilled in them and the are bolted at the bottom and the top of the box. The piece that you have made and are talking about (from what I can tell by what you wrote) is the top of the box it just extends past the sides thats all.

 

Here is a picture of the cardboard mock up I had for mine at one time.

T1010088.jpg

 

This is what I ended up going with for the time being.

S1010002.jpg

S1010005.jpg

 

Dragonfly

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Mine took forever to make the templates. Went through a dozen posterboards.

 

Welcome to my world, its hard to see in the pic but I used tons of tape and who knows how many slivers of cardboard to make my templates. Even doing it like that I still had to tweak and adjust the metal ones to get them predominantly how I wanted them.

 

Dragonfly

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Dragonfly have you noticed any improvement in cooling/downforce?

 

I can not feel a difference in downforce but I can see that my hood no longer bulges up at triple digit speeds any more. The temp stays rock solid when moving (and air being pushed into the radiator) but when stopped or in nasty bumber to bumper traffic it will start to come up fairly quick because the opening for the air is so restricted. That is not a problem though because I have an electric fan... when I turn it on it pulls the temp back down to normal in less than a minute.

 

As a side note on the cooling I run a 3.0L stroker with 200 to 210 psi static pressure on each cylinder and at the same time I am running a 1" thick and slightly smaller than stock aluminum radiator (with a 2 speed fan). In the past I had heating issues but not anymore.

 

Dragonfly

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I don't know if this has been asked yet, I didn't see anything about it, but what about blocking off the bottom instead of the top? Is there a reason why I haven't seen that here yet? What I'm thinking is that it might be easier to build a channel to divert the air over the entire radiator from the smaller opening and also since the air is coming from higher up that it would be slightly cooler helping the radiator in that aspect. I want to say it would help the front splitter get more air over the top but in my head I see the air traveling up, then hitting the bumper, and just going across the sides instead.

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Another thought I had a while back ago for creating front end downforce was to put tiny wings as the grill. What I was thinking there is that wings create downforce so put multiple wings up front in front of the radiator, you can add and take away wings as need. I just would like some input on that idea as well.

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I got the hardest punch i've ever had (Gave me a black eye BTW) from my HOOD. Years ago I stopped on the side of the road to check something under the engine bay (Think I was confirming that the oil cap was on) and the hood hit me at the temple on the left side... knocked me DOWN... I forgot to put the prop rod up, and I'd removed those springs... Talk about a wakeup call!

 

Mike

 

Thanks. I guess I have some nightmare scenario in my head where I'm halfway in the engine bay and some clueless neighbor comes over and somehow dislodges the prop rod. I'm not usually that paranoid...........really.

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Another thought I had a while back ago for creating front end downforce was to put tiny wings as the grill. What I was thinking there is that wings create downforce so put multiple wings up front in front of the radiator, you can add and take away wings as need. I just would like some input on that idea as well.

I think it's assumed that the bottom will be blocked off, and then they are working on the top. Doing the bottom only makes a lot more sense than doing the top only, but doing both keeps all the air heading through the radiator and that's what you're after.

 

I don't think your tiny wing idea will work because the air inside the grill (if ducted) is moving very slowly. It's a high pressure area and the radiator effectively keeps the air from flowing through at high velocity. The thing that makes wings work is air flowing over them. That high pressure area won't allow the air to flow over the wing, and so it won't produce much if any lift (downforce).

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I'm looking at doing the reduced air intake, and a couple of thoughts. Any angle greater than 15 degrees on the duct is going to cause turbulent flow, which will reduce the effective size of the radiator as the turbulent air around the edges will have trouble going through the rad (actually, intercooler in my case). Given the space limitations, the best solution would appear to be to have two ducts, one feeding from above the front bumper, and one below, both tapered at a max of 15 degrees, and feeding the upper and lower halves of the intercooler/radiator. That way I can have the smallest air inlets without losing out on intercooler/radiator area due to turbulent flow. Thoughts?

 

Note : this is just from eyeballing the front end, I still need to check angles from above/below the front bumper.

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Personally I think mine/Zr8ed's design would be the simplest to do and still do the job, there arent any complex curves, or bends. But it doesnt mean anything if its easy to make if it doesnt work so Ill have to wait awhile to see.

 

Im not sure on what your duct, or the 15 degrees is refering to. Also the need for 2 ducts.

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Well I decided that I wont be using the grill and block off piece I made. Anyone want it? $15 + shipping will take it.... Its painted with undercoating and looks nice.

 

How come the change of heart? Although mine is a little different than yours it works quite well and I would think your design would also work well.

 

 

I'm looking at doing the reduced air intake, and a couple of thoughts. Any angle greater than 15 degrees on the duct is going to cause turbulent flow, which will reduce the effective size of the radiator as the turbulent air around the edges will have trouble going through the rad (actually, intercooler in my case). Given the space limitations, the best solution would appear to be to have two ducts, one feeding from above the front bumper, and one below, both tapered at a max of 15 degrees, and feeding the upper and lower halves of the intercooler/radiator. That way I can have the smallest air inlets without losing out on intercooler/radiator area due to turbulent flow. Thoughts?

 

Note : this is just from eyeballing the front end, I still need to check angles from above/below the front bumper.

 

I personaly don't think seperation of the air getting into the radiator/intercooler is going to be a big deal since they are such a huge obstruction to airflow, using hypathetical numbers off the top of my head lets just say that you are getting airflow into the radiator at 50 mph your downstream side will probably only see about 15 mph so with that much air getting stopped by the radiator you are going to have turbulent air no matter how much you manage to streamline the flow. That is part of the purpose of blocking off so much of the open area in front of the radiator, if you can reduce the volume you can reduce the amount blocked which in turn reduces air wall in front of the radiator so more air is able to push through rather than requiring a fan to pull stagnant convectionaly heated air through.

 

The idea of using two ducts to me would not yield any improvements unless you mounted your radiator and intercooler in a V configuration and had one duct feeding the radiator and the other duct feeding the intercooler. All the above is my opinion, you are more than welcome to prove me wrong but I'm feeling fairly confident.

 

One last comment... I watched this car run several laps racing and he never overheated and I know he's got some crazy angles going on there.

S1010035.jpg BTW thats an oil cooler you see in the duct on the right hand side back by the drivers seat.

 

Dragonfly

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Personally I think mine/Zr8ed's design would be the simplest to do and still do the job, there arent any complex curves, or bends. But it doesnt mean anything if its easy to make if it doesnt work so Ill have to wait awhile to see.

 

Im not sure on what your duct, or the 15 degrees is refering to. Also the need for 2 ducts.

 

A duct is an enclosed entryway to the radiator/intercooler, and in the case of what we are all looking at, needs to be smaller at the entry than the exit so that the air inlet area is reduced at the nose of the car but air still flows evenly through the core.

 

Both your and Zr8ed's work aren't ducts, they are just blanking plates around the nose area to stop air leakage. Dragonfly has built an actual duct, but had the angles too steep with the first version and had overheating issues, so had to make the entry larger. 15 degrees is about the maximum divergence angle before flow separates on the walls... ten degrees is supposed to be safer. Two ducts with 15 degrees divergence in the walls will allow an overall smaller air entry area than one duct with the same divergence.

 

I think you should look up the P51 radiator design and the Meredith effect if this is confusing.

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The idea of using two ducts to me would not yield any improvements unless you mounted your radiator and intercooler in a V configuration and had one duct feeding the radiator and the other duct feeding the intercooler. All the above is my opinion, you are more than welcome to prove me wrong but I'm feeling fairly confident.

 

No space for a V-config without removing the rad support panel and a major rework of the coolers. My thinking on the two ducts is that it will a smaller overall entry path into the intercooler/radiator than a single duct with only a slightly smaller entry than the intercooler size anyway. Besides which, the bumper sits right the middle and must cause turbulent flow anyway. Less air in a diverging duct should slow the air and make it work more effectively - shouldn't it? And reduce the pressure build up in the engine bay (with appropriate undertray).

 

As background - my car overheats once air temp goes over 32C. Was 28C before I moved the number plate down onto the front spoiler and removed the grill. Main problem is I only have space for thermofans, and they just can't flow enough air. Two years ago I did water manometer testing and the only high-pressure areas were in front of the intercooler and the 2cm gap in front of the radiator below the intercooler. I've been sitting on the issue for two years, because I haven't had time to do anything constructive about it, and didn't want to blow $1KAu on a custom alloy rad. And I cycle to work in summer anyway...

 

I'll dig some pics out later...

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