seattlejester

Unless it is a secret I'm not sure why you need to hide your build sheet. Post it up and open it to all the experienced guys on the forum.

The 930cv design has been used on several high hp cars both in stock application (porsche), our application (Z cars), off road (baja bugs), and a similar version is used in holden's in australia and they tend to run 1000hp plus. I don't think you should throw the whole design under the bus. One of the cheapest offerings of axles for that style is EMPI and they claim their axles are race rated with chromoly cages etc, it is generally understood that they can shatter, you really need to shop around and find what people are actually running. You still haven't really answered the purpose of the need for the setup. You can find a CLSD relatively easily and stick with the long nose R200, is there a reason you want the viscous? 600 for custom high torque/hp axles is fairly cheap. I think they even warranty them. Alternatively dutchman offers axles in 4340, but I'm not sure what they are rated to, they go for about 500 a pair if I remember. You would have to approach them with all the measurements. If you are really on a budget, don't want to sell or swap out your suspension, just go the standard route, find a CLSD from a Z31 300zx or aftermarket and put it in the car and convert to CV flanges. Should be able to get that done for about 1.5k, still have yet to answer what you plan on using the car for or what your hp goals are. Fact of the matter is 2k is not all that much unless you plan on doing all the leg work. You need the JY infiniti drive shaft (pain in the ass to pull by the way, not much room to get a wrench on it and the bolts tend to round) Have a new drive shaft built using the flange and your drive shaft New mustache bar New dog bone if you are running the finned cover and what not Might as well go with new uprights while you are at it New CV joints, and you will need nice aftermarket ones, pulling them from the JY would be silly Custom axles 27 spline stub axles Conversion flanges I mean if you plan on drag racing or drifting then even 280z stub axles are not going to be happy, and even if they were happy, the stock wheel studs would not be. If you refuse to kind of lay out your plan it makes it difficult to suggest anything.

So finally got a chance to get my baseline. The WD21 axle shaft is ~13 1/8 inch. The diameter on the CV side after the splines is 26.8mm. The splined portion CV side sitting at 28mm. About 4 or 5 splines broke off with the spring clip when I popped the CV side of the axle off giving me the height of the spline on one side 27mm. That means the splines are about a mm deep and that the shaft is actually 26mm under the splines. That means I only have 0.8mm of material to spline instead of 2mm if I go past the original splined portion. I decided I needed to know how much of the axle will be shortened so I added the flanges and took some measurements. With the tripod gears on and the housings on, the measurement ends up at ~13 1/2 inch. Actually a little less without the spring in the 280zx turbo axle, but with the spring about 13 1/2 inch. So that means....I have at least 1/4 of an inch to play with without any modifications what so ever. Very tempting. I have about 1.5 inches of plunge on each side, so that means I have about 3 inch wiggle room. If I planted it smack in the middle so my range would be 12.3-15.3 inches, I would have to shorten the axle about 1 1/4 inch. There is roughly 1.15 inch of spline, so shortening it by the full 1 1/4 would mean having to cut the 1/2 height spline into the axle and removing all of the existing spline. If I instead cut it down by about half an inch, I would still retain half of the full spline height, get rid of my damaged ring splines, and give my self additional 1/2 inch of breathing room giving me a total of an axle that can go from 13-16 inches. So some options open to me here. 1. Go with how it is now, A c-clip will fit in the remaining splines where the spring clip was and live with the 1/4 inch of room, if I get crazy concerned I can space the axles out with adjustable control arms a couple threads. 2. Order a new WD21 axle for 40$ and have an axle shop remove the CV and keep the same as above. That means no missing splines, but this shouldn't be a concern because I am not worried about extension, I am more worried about compression. 3. Contact the axle shortening place and see if the 1/2 height splining is a feasible option. If it is not a problem just go with that and shorten the axle the full 1 1/4 inch and have them re-spline and add new stops. 4. Contact the axle shortening place and see if the 1/2 spline is a feasible option. If it is not a problem have them shorten it 1/2 an inch and have them re-spline 1/2 and inch and add new stops. 5. Go with a custom axle. I have all the other pieces so they can custom make an axle for less then 300$.

If you are going Q45 for sure it would be silly to convert to 280z stub axles when you can just convert to all Q45 stuff. You need a longer drive shaft, new mustache bar new axles and convert to 280z stuff, you could buy the kit and just convert to more modern hubs and CV's from the Q45 or 300zx or whatever your poison. https://technotoytuning.com/nissan/240z/complete-r200-r230-rear-end-conversion-z-car

I would email troy, he's pretty active. I would guess he wouldn't give you much of a guarantee at those power/torque levels. Honestly I think the axles would be fine if you are not shock loading them, I think the stub axles, even the 280z ones would be the weakest link after switching over to 930 style CV's. I plan to hit about 400hp and maybe 450 torque, my relief valve is going to be tires, I'm staying un-flared and I don't plan on throwing slicks on so worse comes to worse the tires will spin instead of important things breaking. But to answer your question, the R200 has helped power levels up to 800hp without much issue. It is usually the things around it that tends to break.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to find I installed it backwards. That means my total axle measurement is moot at this point. I do know that the 280zx turbo axle seems to have about the same range so I'm still comfortable with the driver side. Passenger side on the other hand will need to be measured with the diff installed correctly or based off the numbers from John's article. I have plunge joints so quite a bit of variability so as long as I hit the middle of the range I should be fine. Based off the math I get for the passenger side I need... 16 1/8 inch for half shaft x 25.4mm / inch= 409.575 mm 19.4 mm for the input 36 mm for the stub axle flange 56mm for the 280zx adapter 59mm for the infiniti input That brings me to 409.575 + 19 + 36 = 464.975 mm 464.975mm - 56 mm - 59mm = 349.975 mm 349.975 / 25.4 mm / inch = 13.7785 inches or ~13.8 inches. So I have to find the width of the sliding tripod bearings and how much space they occupy in the housings and find out the midpoint to calculate my axle length. Once that is done I can send off the measurements with the WD21 axle, best case scenario, they trim down the axle, respline it and I go on my happy way for about 70$. Worst case they have to build me a new axle with custom splines to my measurement, but that should be good for quite a bit of hp and I would think it would be cheaper then the price listed of 300$ as it is only going to be 1/3rd the size of their typical axle.

Figuring out the axles has led to a realization. (Thanks Newzed) I think I installed the mustache bar backwards. The R200 bar has a little kink in it. When I installed it into my car, I referenced the 240z diagram for the R180, I figured the small kink was there to accommodate for the bigger differential. Turns out that instead the engineers decided to flip the mustache bar and add a little kink in it so it doesn't space it too far back. So along with the suspension overhaul I'll be correcting that issue as well. That unfortunately means I won't be able to measure my axle length until I get the differential correctly installed. I will most likely need to get my drive shaft extended at the same time, and it would be foolish of me not to install the shifter relocator while that is out, which also puts me dangerously close to just pulling the transmission and installing an uprated clutch while everything is out. I still want to keep this relatively feasible so I'll plan on the power upgrade and engine inspection at a later warmer date, so the immediate plan will be... Flip the car around and start on the front suspension: The GTX2 front control arm and tension arm kit arrived so I should be able to have the front ready to put together minus the brake hardware and the hubs I will need to pull from the setup already in the car. I have a feeling I may have to deal with having the steering knuckle hogged out to accommodate the ball joint on the new control arm. Other then that I have to weld the coilover onto the front which should be a very straight forward process and polish up the spindles. Then swap over parts I will be reusing and bolt it all back together. I also suspect I need to replace the control arm that had a torn boot at this time. Once the front is done I can hopefully begin to attack the rear: Drain transmission Remove drive shaft Pull out tail of transmission to get to shifter arm Install shifter relocator (moves it 1 inch back) Send off old shifter housing and arm to have it lengthened an appropriate amount to have it comfortable for future install Pull out diff and half shafts Re-orient mustache bar and reinstall Take measurements Have drive shaft lengthened (really hope they can do this instead of having to make a new one) Order up axle for passenger side Uninstall diff and half shafts Finish up control arm and send off to powder coat Reassemble stub axle with new bearings Weld coilovers uprights hubs Paint uprights Pull suspension Transfer rear disk brake kit Consider solution for rear brake line rubbing Install stub axle Install new VLSD diff and driver side axle along with adapter and coilover Assemble passenger axle and assemble passenger side axle with adapters and coilover Alternatively I could skip a few steps and just measure how much further back flipping the mustache bar puts the diff and order the extension and estimate on the passenger side axle since I have quite a bit of room to play with with the double plunge nature of the axle setup. With that done I can focus on installing the door alignment helpers the valve covers and the quick latches I bought. I imagine it will be getting close to spring. Looks like I have quite the winter project setup for me. I can't imagine I'll have any clunking after this and in fact I should be able to dial in my suspension settings and maybe get some real driving and autocross action in.

Welcome to the forum. Literally right above your post in the sticky is an excellent outline of someone fitting an automatic in their 240z so someone definitely has done it. I would imagine you just keep the plugs on the transmission and run the stock ecu. You would have to suss out the superfluous items, but to my knowledge a toyota wiring harness is pretty simple if you have it complete, just need the power, ground, and the fuel out. I can't remember if the 1jz was advanced enough to need a wheel speed sensor to determine which gear to shift to.

If you tap them with a hammer they can release, usually people tap the carb housing to get them un-stuck. If they have been that way for a while though, you may just want to replace them, there are a couple videos that get into the nitty gritty, but the just SU videos are indeed very good if you plan on keeping the carbs for any amount of time.

Fudge...

......oh shoot. I mean that is the page I referenced, but the top photo. Is the R200 supposed to install with the curve forward but the mustache bar backwards? This might be a very expensive mistake, new drive shaft at the minimum.

Regarding axle length: Strangely enough what I have is what I measured as I did it in that order on a sheet of paper. That was a bit confusing on my end as well. I have read and seen differentials (R200 grows towards the driver side with mounting holes being the same) which would point to the driver side axle being shorter, but my measurements showed that they were pretty close if not the passenger side being actually shorter, I think I'm going to roll it up on ramps to get a better grasp though as I agree my numbers go against what all the reports say, and this was with a tape measure in the dark. Regarding angled arms: So that is also something that is strange, I definitely have a rearward rake the half shafts definitely lean back. When I did the swap I pulled the mustache bar from a 280z, compared to the R180 mustache bar it has a bit of a kink in it to move the differential back. My front bottom diff mount lines up with the bolt holes so I believe it is in the right place, but I know my RT top front diff mount I had to add a tab to bolt the bushing to, to make it fit, I recall asking the maker about it and he said that some early cars had the diff mount really pulled forward, but that his mount encompassed the others so I was just kind of left out of that equation. I've always believed that it was a latent problem with the early cars that was eventually fixed with the later cars (11/70 build date if I recall), although memory is fuzzy as to whether it was a 2+2 or a non 2+2 that I pulled the mustache bar from. As it looked, I even considered putting in the R180 mustache bar backwards as that would give more room then an R200 bar correctly installed.

Hey guys, just found this video and thought it was worth sharing. Each of the cars has a pretty good presence on the internet, kind of fun seeing them being used. Starts around 6:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGux0Vqofzs For those interested: Orange one with flares showed up in the 370z challenge RB26 swap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VRnBKfPOvw Blue one showed up in an autocon video RB26 swap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x66Ma8kWaOw Black one had a post on our forum LS swap http://www.stanceworks.com/2015/04/the-reason-were-here-riley-stairs-ls6-powered-1974-datsun-260z/ Rotsun has showed up a few times on motortrend Orange with the black hood is Larry's car from speed hunters SR20 swap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0ls1r4kP8g

So looking at pictures, looks like all the companies leave out washers and just have the nut/bolt sit against the actual rod end when needed. I'm going to throw in the spacer in the rear just to keep the rod end straight so it has a bit more room for movement. I hope that doesn't interfere with the wheel. I welded on washers to the toe link bracket so it just adds a bit of thickness to the tear point. Also bought some square tube with an ID of 1.25 and cut and welded that to the outside so I can get some flats onto the toe link so I don't have to vice grip the link every time I want to adjust it. Need to grind down some of the old control arm remnants and then off to powder coat.

Took a little bit of time to get some measurements. These are pertinent measurements to determine axle length that means from flange to flange so not including splined ends for these measurements. 280zx turbo adapter old welded modern motorsport ones 59mm with a 3mm outer lip, so a 56mm total length Infiniti input shaft for R200 59mm from oil seal to flange 240z stub axle flange 36mm 280z input shaft for R200 19.4mm from oil seal to flange 1/2 shaft 15 3/8 inch fully compressed 1/2 shaft 16 1/2 inch fully extended My car has parallel control arms the way it sits at the moment or right around there. It is also a 240z with an R200 so the 1/2 shafts definitely angle back. As my car also sits low and I did not jack it up to change the geometry, these are as close to estimates as I could get with the car on the floor. Driver side 1/2 shaft is at 16 1/8 inch Passenger side 1/2 shaft is at 15 15/16 inch Surprisingly not that much difference actually. Based off of those numbers my total length I have to use for the passenger side is 15 15/16 + flange + r200 input - 280zx adapter - infiniti input equals ___ I'm waiting for my last spider joint and housing to come in to find out the final measurements, but basically I have to make sure that the axle can hit _____ inches with +- 0.5 inches or so which given that this conversion axle has two plunge joints really is not going to be a problem. Once measurement is made I'm going to shoot off an e-mail to the axle people and see if they can shorten the path finder axle or if not it seems like they can make me a custom axle.

Bent frame rail won't be a catastrophic issue safety wise, most z cars (240z-280zx) have probably a wrinkled frame rail from years of jacking. Yes he probably should have used a bit of wood to spread out the surface area or just use the pinch welds. Even so, the frame rail should have been able to take quite a bit of weight before caving or denting, I suspect maybe some rust is present there, and if there is a large amount of rust this could be a cause of concern.

Pulled straight from the FSM The frame rail should be level when the rockers are level. On the 71, the trans mount I believe is level. Some pictures would help to determine maybe a source of impact and help predict where everything shifted to if you can manage.

The drawing is crazy detailed (if we are thinking of the same one), you legitimately have to erase the holes made for the 3x2 pattern and change it to a 4x1 pattern matching the CV shaft you have. You also have the 4x1 pattern on the CV axle that you have, so can't see how much easier it could get, no R&D or time required. Hell if you were lazy enough you could just take the axle and the flange to a machinist/fabricator and say "make this fit this, you have ____ much room...." I have a set of the older MM adapters and they are not simply welded up. The adapter piece is machined with a rectangle to fit the stock z flange very snugly inside and then the flange is welded to the adapter, that assures perfect fitment each time. Concurred, if it is a bandaid and you plan on putting around just throw the stock half shafts in with the input shafts from an R200, bolt on fitment with the CLSD you mention. Last time I was looking for a set a forum member offered a set to me for 40 or 50$ for the inputs, half shafts can be acquired at low prices if you don't have yours and they are the same from the 240-280z. Unless you are drastically lowered you don't need the CV's especially while driving around at 3000rpm staying off boost.

So some progress. Haven't been able to find my second micrometer, so I think I'll be purchasing my third.... Disassembled the pathfinder joint, didn't have the correct punch for the cv joint so I smashed the cage until it released the CV and pressed the gear off. The compression ring broke a couple splines off so seems like 40$ for a complete axle was most likely a justified pipe dream. Regardless, even this axle is too long. The 280zx turbo axle is sufficient length for the driver side with the adapter. The herri axle seems to indeed be made for the 280zx turbo. After some searching and figuring, it seems like you can order just the joint from the 280zx as well for the thinner 3x2 bolt pattern. If the illustrations are correct (still need to go measure), the 3x2 pattern used on the 280zx is 98mm (also used on g35), while the one used on the infiniti j30, pathfinder etc is 126mm. I took the plunge tripod joint from the 280zx turbo axle, turns out it has a fairly large tripod bearing race. The one from the pathfinder axle has a smaller bearing shorter race, but it just barely fits into the 280zx housing. My spare joint I bought for the infiniti has a large joint with the same spline so I think that will work with the 280zx housing. If it does not I will source the g35 tripod as I believe that will still fit the WD21 axle. So as of now I have both joints solved or can be solved, I just need to figure out the actual axle. The pathfinder axle looks to be about an inch or so too long. One side has a hard stop and necks down right after so it excludes the possibility of machining. The other side however doesn't seem to neck down for 2-3 inches and has no visible hard stop, just the splines end. I am really hoping that the micrometer says that it can be machined as that would be a simple case of lopping off an inch or two of that end having the splines cut and having a couple groves cut to hold some C clips. If that works I should have a bolt in setup! I do have all the stock pieces so once I acquire another micrometer I will take measurements from the differential input to the hub and the thickness of each piece which should help others cobbling together a similar setup. The concern at the moment is that if the axle does neck down and cannot be splined, where would I go about acquiring a custom axle? As mentioned, I have the CV joints, just need to source an axle. Did any nissan car come with a solid 27 spline axle without any necking?

Refer to thread linked in first post...

25 splines are quite a bit thinner then the 27 splines. You can put a 27 spline flange on a 25 spline hub and spin it around completely without any interference. The 27 spline hubs aren't the strongest things in the world, but those extra couple mm help. If someone is going to go through the effort of getting an R200 and CV axles, then getting the 27 spline would be a natural consideration. In the stock configurations it seems like the half shaft goes, once you move to CV then it is your stub axles that seem to go, and if your stub goes your wheel falls off the car. Not sure how you are sure the factory 40+ year old hubs will hold up fine with more then double the hp being thrown at it, but if you are comfortable then you are comfortable. You have the bolt pattern from the CV's take that to a machine shop and have them make a plate. Once you have the plate you just need to find a fabricator who can make it for you preferably with a lathe. I will say you have to be careful with the width, the Z31 CV's already seem to bind with the cages flipped, so too wide and you won't even be able to install your CV's.

Glad you got it resolved.

The thing I have found is most of these are exactly that, non floating. Locked outboard by a c clip, locked inboard by a machined hard stop or a thicker center axle that is turned down to spline. Without a hard stop apparently sudden impacts or movements (a lot of off road buggies use VW motors and this type of axle) causes the axle to mushroom apparently. You set the axle length where the control arms are parallel, and the axle kind of becomes a non adjustable arm. More proof of the non floating design is in the fact there are different lengths for the R160-R180 diffs and the R200 diffs. If they were floating it would be a simple manner of running the splines a little deeper and letting the CV move inboard for the bigger diff, but apparently a new axle is required for the larger diff. If you are interested in how the setup came into play the DIY setup is still available and pretty well documented by 510 guys I think if you look for Mattndew, you will find the companion flanges and the write up including an axle drawing with the indicated hard stops.

Glad you saved them, I enjoy the process, hurry up and post!

So here's where the pictures you never sent me were, glad you finally made a build thread!