Ed260Z
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Posts posted by Ed260Z
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To act as if its sacreligious to do THIS swap when ALL others are OK just slays me into unsympethetic laughter to all of the sudo-purists who blow this spit.LOl.
So take a deep breathe and remember...this is HYBRID-Z....not PURIST NAZI !lol.
Relax' date='unwind and finish a car.
Vinny
[/quote']If I thought I was a pusist I would never have wondered onto this site. May be it's because the Early Mustang was the first car I ever "fell in love with". I had a 64 1/2, 67 & 69. This is a straight line runner.(no turns please) They were OK on the road at best, handled marginaly, but hitting the gas when the light turned green gave me a grin from ear to ear.
The Mustang, Camaro and Corvette are American Icons. I'm sure that there are more than a few Japanese that think dropping an American V8 into a Z is Sacrilegious.
I suppose the ripping the heart out of a 1967 427 Corvette Conv, and dropping in the RB26DETT would be OK for some. NOT ME
Don't get me wrong I think thet the RB26DETT is an ASSOME motor, Hell I want to put one in my Z this Spring.
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What do you need to do to mount the Z32 or Q45 LSD diff into the S13 Sub frame?
Is it as simple as just useing the 2 upper holes, and notching the bottom? Keep in mind that I want to keep the 2 bolt vented diff cover from those diffs.
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All of the arms are the same length (infiniti and nissan.) The subframe is different in each car. It is not very hard to narrow the subfame' date=' put the diff where you want it, centered or not to achieve what you want. If you go narrower than I did, you will have to cut more clearance for the front upper arms.
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I understand how to norrow the rear of the sub frame. But how do you narrow the front without killing the geometry of the suspension?
Do you need to section it at the front diff support?
Could I use the S13 sub frame, since it's already more narrow than the S14, with the Z32 arm LCA?
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The classic mustang was produced in gluttonous quantities compared to the first-gen Z. About 1.2 million mustangs the first two years. That's like 4X as many as ALL Z's from 1970-78.
True, but there are less today in restorable condition.
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I think it's pretty cool personally. I have had the idea in my head for a while now about getting some older domestic (chevy II' date=' etc......) and dropping in an import motor of some sort (RB, 2jz). I think it would be cool as hell......probably get alot of crap from the domestic guys about it.
JT[/quote']
I think the idea is cool too. Just not on a irreplaceable car.
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When you install the new bump stop bushings on the struts don't forget to cut nearly 50% off of them. This will compensate the lower ride hight.
The car rides alot better with the new bushings and struts. The Springs are OK, I just wish they weren't so low. Not much to cry over though, I got the set on ebay for less than what MSA was charging for just the struts. I'll put coils overs in next year anyway.
Good Luck.
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Looking at the pic it seems that the LCA and Tie Rod are parallel. Has this reduced your "Bump" steer?
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Those guys who look down on you for putting a v-8 in your datsun, consider datsun's classics, and think they should not be tampered with.... so the difference is....?
I think that the Difference is #'s. There are more Z's out there, than there are Stangs from that Era. Remeber that the Early Mustang had a major change in almost every model year. While the S30 was, more or less, the same from 70-78.
I would say that the 1970 Z is car that shouldn't be tampered with.
I have an Early 260Z which in it of it self is a limited run car, but I would not call it a classic (In the sense that it should be restored to factory new condition).
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I went under the car and tried tightening all the bolts I could' date=' some kind of difficult to get to I admit, but also I noticed something--there is that strap (some nylon tough cloth) under there and it seems to be rather loose, is its function to help secure the dif., can this thing be tightened by me, or do I need a new one?
The problem is: if I am at a stop and put the car in reverse and let the clutch go abruptly there is a clunk.
Any comments to address any, or all of the above is a help. Thanks...[/quote']
The Strap your reffering to is called a tourqe arrester. But that's probably not your problem. Put in a new front diff mount, and it should solve your problem.
From what you describe your diff has seen better days, and requires a rebuild. Not sure if it's worth it on a R180. (Cheaper to get a nice used one)
Now would be a good time to upgrade to a R200, if you ever plan on adding more power to your beast.
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I have an early 260Z, and the Tokico Springs dropped my car 2 1/2" in front, & 2" out back. So be preppared for a huge drop.
Get the bushings from www.summitracing.com you can pick Black or Red. They are also cheaper than MSA. For the boots I've seen people use the boots from Eibach. Go to the tech site on this site www.atlanticz.ca lots of great info.
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Yehh they do tend to overcomplicate their creations a bit. But they do have some cool stuff.
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man... hypocrites everywhere
i'd rather have a jap engine any day. fuel economy' date=' reliability, and an engine that doesn't burn a lot of oil, and lastly still makes tons of power. definitely.[/quote']
It's not so much the engine, but the car. If it where a later Stang I would have no problem with it. But this is a Classic Mustang not a post Mustang II era Stang.
I could put an Sr20 in my Z, and it will make great power. (much more than my current L series) But there is no way I could do it. To me less Cyl's is a down grade of the worst order.(Please no flaming from the 4cyl guys).
A well built V8 will out Torque any Turbo jap motor. When when all is said and done on the 1/4 mile it's all about torque! HP #'s are for advertising, Torque is for winning.
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A double standard, eh?
Let's just say that forum rules don't allow for my full opinion. HeHeHe
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The adapter I fabricated was the end of a Ford tie rod end welded to a 1/2" bolt. The Ford end screwed onto the rack' date=' and the 1/2" threaded portion screwed into the rod end.
[img']http://www.fototime.com/084E9427A2B0903/standard.jpg[/img]
Did you make any mods to the LCA mounting position?
How does it feel with all of the nuts on there? Looka a little scarry to me.
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Here is a better shot of it.
Design
40Front suspension strutmRubber mount rebound stopaRubber mount jounce stopnSuspension strut support bearingbTop wiperoHydraulic pipecTop spring platepTop guide sleevedPiston rod tubeqHigh-pressure sealeAustenitic piston rodrSteel springfPosition magnetsProtective bootgHydraulic cylindertHydraulic cylinder bottom stophBottom guide sleeveuShock absorber piston rodiBottom wipervShock absorberjInner bump stop822/4 Left front suspension strut motion sensorkk Outer bump stopB22/5 Right front suspension strut motion sensorlBottom spring plate
41Rear suspension strutnSuspension strut support bearingaRubber mount jounce stopoHydraulic pipebTop wiperpTop guide sleevecTop spring plateqHigh-pressure sealdPiston rod tuberSteel springePiston rodsProtective bootfPosition magnettHydraulic cylinder bottom stopgHydraulic cylinderuShock absorber piston rodhBottom guide sleevevShock absorberiBottom wiperwLower mountjInner bump stopxHigh-pressure sealkOuter bump stopB22/1Left rear suspension strut motion sensorlBottom spring plate822/Right rear suspension strut motion sensormRubber mount rebound stop
The suspension strut forms a unit comprising hydraulic cylinder, steel spring and shock absorber. The suspension strut motion sensor is integrated in the hydraulic cylinder.
The shock absorber is a twin-tube shock absorber with gas preload.
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I was trying to link this info, but you would need a password to get in. May be this can give someone an idea of how to make a compact Air Ride system. This is a lot more complicated than any of us would ever need, since it also incorporates an anti roll feature.
ADS dampers
The ADS dampers are basically similar to the 220 series. At the front axle, they are integrated in a spring strut, while at the rear axle they are located separately parallel to the air spring. The gas pressure dampers are friction-optimized by using a step-seal. The gas pressure has been lowered to achieve good roll control and response, which necessitates an additional valve.
40 Left front axle ADS shock absorber y1 Front axle solenoid valve 1Y51 Damping valve y2 Front axle solenoid valve 2
The adjustment of the damping forces is controlled in the damping valves (Y51, Y52, Y53, Y54). A damping valve is installed at each wheel between the upper and lower chamber of the single-tube gas pressure shock absorber integrated in the spring strut. Each damping valve features two electromagnetic valves (yl, y2), which, depending on how they are operated by the SAS control module with ADS, permit four different damping force stages.
The extremely short reaction time (in the milliseconds range) ensures that the optimal damping force stage is available with practically no time lag when a sudden change in the vehicle state occurs, such as an avoidance maneuver.
Pressure supply
The electrically driven compressor is positioned in the left of the front end and comprises an electric motor (400 W), an electronically actuated outlet valve and a pressure relief/residual pressure valve. An air drier stores the moisture contained in the inducted air, and, when the moisture is drained, the air drier is regenerated by the dry air of the system. A paper air filter is integrated in the air intake passage.
With the aid of the compressor it is possible to produce the air pressure required for raising the vehicle. The load current of the compressor motor is switched through a relay. In particular operating states (wake-up, central reservoir empty) the compressor is also permitted to run when engine OFF. The compressor is operated provided the charge state of the battery permits subsequent engine start (engine start has priority). For this reason, the control module monitors the on-board voltage before the compressor is switched on and during the time it is operating.
Power of compressor motor 400 WPeak current consumption <100 AContinuous current <35 ACurrent consumption if system free of faults approx. 25-30 A
A9/1 Compressor unita Intake air filterb Pressure relief/residual pressure valvec Air drierg Plastic linem1 Electric motor
Level valves
The level valve output stages are dimensioned as follows:
* The solenoid valve must reliably operate within the specified nominal voltage range.
* In the function mode a maximum of 2 level valves, or 1 level valve and the central reservoir charging valve, are actuated simultaneously.
Switching valves for additional air volume
* The switchover valves for the additional air volume, located at each wheel, are integrated in the spring struts.
* It is possible, by switching over the valves, to influence the spring characteristic curve.
* Large volume -> comfort
* Small volume —p sport
* The basic setting of the valves is opened (large volume)
Note:
* A further two additional air volumes are engaged at the rear axle.
* At the front axle the air volume is split within the spring strut without an additional air volume (additional air reservoir)
Sequence for actuating compressor unit A9/1Component
N51 SAS control module
K67 compressor unit relay
f74 4OAmax.yellow
A9/1 Compressor unit Installation position
Passenger footwell/below supporting plate
Driver-side SAM rear right (green)
Passenger-side SAM
Left front wheelhouse
Valve unit (Y36/6)
The valve unit (Y36/6) is installed on the same mounting plate as the compressor, offset to the left side.
It comprises the air distribution for all the components connected to it.
1 connection left front axle
1 connection right front axle
1 connection left rear axle
1 connection right rear axle
Pressure sensor
The pressure sensor is located between compressor (pressure outlet side), the level valves and the central reservoir charging valve. The pressure sensor measures the central reservoir pressure and, if necessary, ensures that the reservoir is replenished. The position selected for the pressure sensor makes it possible with “skillful†actuation of the valves, both to measure the central reservoir pressure, as well as to detect the individual spring strut pressures. Central pressure charging valve
The central pressure charging valve is required for charging the central pressure through the compressed air compressor. Once the desired pressure is reached, compressor and central reservoir charging valve are switched off. The top cutoff pressure for charging the central reservoir depends on the ambient air pressure. This is obtained over the CAN from the engine control module. If the connection to the engine control module is interrupted, the ambient air pressure is set to a fixed value in the control module.
If the compressed air reservoir is used for raising the vehicle, the central reservoir charging valve and level valves must be opened. Assuming an adequate pressure difference between central reservoir and spring bellows, the compressed air is able to escape into the spring bellows. The vehicle is raised.
Pressure reservoir
The aluminum pressure reservoir has an air volume of 3.8 liters and is located in the right of the trunk. The task of the pressure reservoir is to store the air volume and to make it available to the system as necessary. In addition, it is possible to achieve post-control processes using the air volume, in which the compressor either does not run, or starts.
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4)Why use the S14 over the S13 sub-frame?
**I think the S13 sub-frame will work just fine' date=' but you definitely want to use other arms. To quote myself-"S14, however, all of the arms are swappable except the lower control arms. For example, if you wanted to run the aluminum hub housing from a 300ZX (Z32), you could, but you would also have to have the lower control arms from the Z because the ball joints on the LCA are different................................
I would go S14, just so you have more options later." This means that if you use S13 lower arms, you cannot swap hubs with Q45 and Z32 unless you buy a different hub carrier from one of those cars and the corresponding lower control arm with it.................................
My car is nearly 10" wider than stock. ...........................I love the way the car behaves. I now have upgraded brakes diff, axles etc. and it was cheaper for me. Easier to find the parts too. Take it for what it is worth. Ed I wish you luck whatever you decide. I know what I would do.[/quote']
Thanks for chimeing in, your input is greatly appreciated. I am a bit bummed out that you can't use the S13 LCA with the Q45 or Z Carrier. I'm not looking to make as wide a Z as you have. At most I was looking at may be some ZG flares. I thought the the S13's arms would keep my wheels under the fenders W/O exssesive Back Spacing.
Are there any arms that will fit the S14 sub frame, and keep the width as close to 55" as possiable?
Or is it that the width of the sub frame is wider, and not the Arms?
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Yes... it was done for F&F 3, which takes place (partly atleast) in Japan. There is a story behind WHY the motor was installed in that car and it is quite plausible.
OK I just read that this was for a movie. To the makers of F&F3. You didn't have the money limitations that many of us in the real world have. So what you did was just WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok may be I went a little over board, but I think you see my opinion.
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Please tell me that's a fake Shelby. It looks to me like a 67 or 68 Fast Back. Although I like the idea of dropping a V8 into a Z. (More for the money than anything else) I think it's sacrilegious to drop a Jap motor into a Classis American Car. Even if it had a straight 6 in there to begin with.
This is just WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will complement the owner in his ingenuity, and keeping the car alive. Japan has to be one of the most expensive places to own a car. Not to mention one of the strictest. I'm sure an Old V8 would not have been street worthy over there.(Very strict emissions laws)
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You should be able to apply some pressure with a pry bar and pop the whole shaft out of the diff.
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OK, so what your saying is that the S13/S14 rear is not going to give any real preformance gain over the stock S30 IRS.
What IRS would you go with?
The only other IRS that I know can handle the power would be a Jag style IRS. But that is around $3-4K. I do have a tight budget and the RB26DETT will be sucking up most of it.
I'm not looking for a racecar, altough the occasional run through an Autocross event is not out of the question. I want a well balanced machine. And I want to do it as cost effectivly as possiable.
There seems to be a hang up on doing this swap just for the "better" suspension. What about the other benefits?
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Mercedes has an air ride suspension hybrid set up in alot of their AMG performance cars. It also has 3 positions, but there is only about a 3" movement from lowest to highest.
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One big problem that you have with the stock S30 Rear is the excesive camber changes through the suspensions travel. Welding some camber plate will correct the static set up, but as soon as you start moving the suspesion you get the effect again. The S13/S14 multi link does not suffer from the same amount camber changes through it's motion.
I'm not saying that this would be the best IRS you could ever put in a S30. But it is a very cost effective way to get alot more. Not just a better suspension. (Even if it's only a bit better.) You get 5 lug hubs, and bigger brakes. And the short nose LSD diff are alot cheaper than the Long nose.
If I wanted to spend $6-8K I could get one hell of a custom IRS built for my car.
Interesting and informative post Paul' date=' it prompts a few comments.
In my limited circuit track experience, once you build in some adjustability the S30's rear suspension performs very well, its the front which is the weak end. .........................Yet very few seem concerned with replacing the front suspension on a S30 for some reason or other.
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I agree with you. I wish that more people would look into "fixing" the S30's front suspension. I looked into the Skyline, and a few other cars front suspensions, but I was told that none of them would work. And a custom job is big $$$$$$.
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The swap it self doesn't call for any modification of the multi link arms, or their placement. I think that if you can get the sub frame placed on the same Horz. & Longi. plane as on the 240SX you should be able to maintain it's ride charecteristics. I'm no expert in any sence of the imagination on this, but ut sounds about right to me.
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Mustang in Japan...not a V-8 under the hood
in Nissan RB Forum
Posted
Well I've had some time to calm down from my initial reaction. SInce the car isn't a Shelby I'll get over it. It a cool idea, and the RB makes great power. But I still think the sound will be all wrong for that car. And since it won't make the car anymore nimble why do it? It doesn't look like a 800hp RB in the pic, but it's only a pic. The only way I can see this swap making sense is if it is a MEGA powered RB.