Zmanco

Wow, that video was a time warp. I was literally laughing out loud. Thanks Mat!

I'm afraid this is sidetracking this thread, but just to clear it up, 440cc injectors will support a NA engine to 400 hp. It will not support a turbo motor, at least according to the various injector calculator sites I've seen. Remember the Brake Specific Fuel Consumption changes and is higher for a turbo motor than a NA motor. That's the difference here. Now back to your originally scheduled programming ...

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1375627440.html I have nothing to do with the seller. Just thought it might be of interest here...

Yasin, looking really good! Can't wait until you get the engine on the white car fully sorted and find out what she's capable of doing. FYI to the rest of you, I've been fortunate to see Yasin's cars in person and the pictures don't do the cars justice. His attention to detail is amazing. And maybe if you ask real nice, he'll start another thread with his red Porsche turbo and truly stock low-miles Roadster

When I bought my P90 it came without towers. So I took a set off an old damaged head and bolted them on. Within 5 minutes of loosening, tapping, tightening, repeat, I had the cam spinning perfectly. It was really no big deal. Later I shaved the head and added spacers and again, it was easy to get the towers aligned. I'm not saying it would always be that easy, but it was for me. Quite frankly, I've never read anyone say they had a problem with it.

I think you should go back and do the calculation again. I just used their site and at 43.5 psi, you need 573 cc injectors to get to 400 at the crank. At 70 psi 450cc is just big enough.

One of the guys here in CO had a similar issue and it turned out one of the nuts holding the mustache bar was loose. Worth checking ...

I'm sorry I didn't take a better picture as in-person there is a very noticeable difference in the length of the wipe on the left side vs. the right. Ideally I expect they should be the same. On a few rockers the difference is around 2 mm. 2eighTZ4me, that's exactly what happened, the bolt back out enough that the cam popped off the dowel but didn't come off completely. So the good news is I didn't have to take the timing cover off. But I still had to take the head off, and with the manifolds and turbo still attached, it may be difficult to replace the valves. I may land up stripping everything off the head in the end - we'll see when I get back home and can tear into it.

You might want to use an online fuel injector calculator to check the injector sizing. I don't think 450 cc injectors can support 400 HP, even if it's just at the crank.

I had to pull the head last night for a different reason and didn't see anything obviously wrong with the HG. I'm gone all week but will look more closely when I return. So far I don't understand why the temps fluctuate so much more for this engine than the old NA given so many of the components are the same. But the original issue of overheating is now gone, so I'll assume it was due to some combination of poor airflow (AC core and no hood) along with perhaps some air trapped in the system.

It's a P90. Lash pads look fine, but the wipe pattern is such that the distance between the lines on one side is less than the other. Basically it's a trapezoid. About half of the wipe patterns are like that to varying degrees. It was the bolt that holds the cam gear to the cam that came loose. So the engine spun down from around 2k rpm to a stop out of sync from the cam. After posting I though about it some more and figured that the stems are slightly bent. That would cause the spring/lash pad to be offset to one side which would cause one side of the rocker to make contact with the lobe before the other. I thought I might have gotten lucky that due to the dished pistons there was no contact between valves and pistons, but looks like I just missed. Last night I pulled the head off and this weekend when I'm home I'll put a new set of valves in. Painful lesson to check everything twice before closing things up

A shroud would be great, but with the limitied clearance and the 2 12" fans that's not easy. On my last engine I had plugged all the holes and once I'm sure about the intercooler piping I'll do the same again. I agree that maximizing the airflow over the rad is the key. And the Taurus fan comes with a shroud IIRC, doesn't it?

Thanks again for all the thoughts and suggestions. At this point I do not think there is any exhaust leak into the cooling system as I've driven for extended periods and while the temps fluctuate a lot more than with the old motor, they are not out of line I suppose. As I mentioned before, the water pump came over from the old motor and has around 20k mile on it. I had no cooling issues like this on that motor. The radiator was purchased new and has no more than 40k miles on it, always with around 50% coolant. It's possible I suppose that it's the cause, but it seems unlikely. Moving the outlet of the 5/6 cylinder cooling mod to the intake on the passenger side didn't appear to make a difference so I'm going to move it back. I may have to pull the head anyway so would get a chance to be sure about all of this. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=1068258#post1068258 The 2 12" fans I have are slim to clear the AC compressor and were ok for the old motor, but probably didn't have much reserve capacity. There is no shroud. I was hoping that in stop/go driving where I didn't expect to use much boost that this setup would still be ok. But given I'm pulling the AC, I should be able to fit the Taurus efan so will probably go that route over the winter.

The new Schneider cam is loud as if the wipe pattern is way off. Before I assembled it I measured the wipe and ordered appropriate lash pads and after installation measured them all again. All were good, although some were more to the outside. Still all had at least 2 mm gap before the edge of the rocker surface. Today I checked the wipe pattern again and several have a pattern like this one. Basically there is more gap on one side than the other, like a trapezoid. I'm thinking that these are due to a mildly bent valve as the cam bolt came loose shortly after first startup while the engine was running (don't ask how I made such a dumb move - I'm still beating myself up over it.) Luckily the gear stayed on and the chain tensioner didn't come out so I was able to put the gear back on. Engine is a stock turbo bottom end with dished pistons and head is P90 shaved .080" with Felpro gasket. The engine runs great and except for the loud valves I wouldn't think anything of it. I've checked compression and they range from 140 - 148. But I'm worried this is not a recipe for a long life for the cam. Also, in case replacing the valves is in my future, have any of you ever taken the head/intake manifold/exhaust manifold w/turbo off as a single assembly? I'm thinking of using the engine hoist to pull the whole thing off as 1 piece and setting it on a bench to make this a little easier.

Thanks guys for the further ideas. I didn't list all my engine details because I didn't want the post to grow so long no one would read it, but let me fill a few things in: - Stock turbo block with dished pistons - 2 12" e-fans and no shroud - P90 head that was shaved .080" yielding 45.5 cc chambers. Daeron, you are right that CR is around 8.4. - Radiator is the old MSA 4 core and except on hot track days before I installed the oil cooler, has never had any problems cooling the car when it's in motion. - I had an existing megasquirt tune that I modified for turbo (changed Reg Fuel to fit new 440 cc injectors, etc) I purposely went very conservative on timing and rich on mixture (based on what I saw others doing with similar setups) for my baseline and only had a little detonation at 4k and up under full boost. I was overheating even under light throttle steady state cruising. - Water pump came from the old engine and is supposed to be the "preferred" one (I think the mfr's name begins with a P?) I thought about that, but the cover is rather thin to be putting an NPT into. Plus, the heater core dumps into the same place and if the heater valve is open, but the other sliders don't vent air over the heater core, then it's a pretty similar situation, isn't it? In any event, it's an easy experiment so I'm going to try it later today.

I removed the AC condenser and things are better. Now and then the temps go above 200 but it's not tied to how hard I drive the car. I suspect the issue now is the #5/6 cylinder cooling mod I did dumps the hot coolant from them right into the lower thermostat housing which is causing the sensors to report wide temperature swings that may not represent the real temp of the coolant throughout the engine. Tomorrow I'll reroute them to the other side where the coolant enters the timing cover. Side note: boost is addictive

So I put the hood back on and no more boiling over, although the engine definitely ran hot even though it's cool today and I was just driving in mild traffic. I'm going to pull the AC core out and see if that's the culprit.

On the first drive it actually boiled over (water only). The radiator cap is new. The temp gauge was into the red. I thought about that. But I moved the pump over from the old engine and it only had about 20k miles on it. I thought that when they failed, it was by leaking, or the impeller breaking off the shaft. In this case there is definitely water movement when I look into the radiator through the neck, although at idle it's more of a vibration, but at 2k rpm it's quite visible.

Hey thanks to all of you for the ideas. I had a chance to check the plugs and they look normal. I had forgotten to check the timing calibration/setup with MS and it was a few degrees retarded, so that's not it. I don't think it's a timing issue at this point. And yes, I did add an intercooler - sorry forgot to mention it. But the overheating occurs even when I short shift with a light throttle staying out of boost so don't think it's heat from the intercooler. But.... I forgot to mention that I still have the hood off. Do you think that's the issue? It will idle and cycle the fans on and off and keep the temp normal just as it always did. But a slow drive around the block (25 mph) will cause the temps to start to climb. I'm sure the hood affects airflow through the rad, but I've seen others drive with their hood off and don't recall hearing about cooling issues. I'll put the hood back on, but can't do that for a while until I have another set of hands. In the mean time, any other thoughts?

I finally have the engine together and towed it to the muffler shop where we put a 3" exhaust on yesterday. Everything is running fine except for one big thing: the temps just continue to climb until it overheats. I've changed the thermostat with a known good one with no effect. I've run the engine with the cap off to purge air and can see water flow once the thermostat opens and the radiator is definitely hot. It took about 2.5 gallons total to fill, so I don't think there are any significant air pockets left. So far I've taken it out for a few drives longer than several minutes. The second time I was able to drive about 5 miles with the temp staying at 180, but then it started to rise and within a few more miles was nearly boiling over. My thoughts are that exhaust gasses are passing into the cooling system. A little more background: Besides adding the turbo, the only changes to my old NA motor are these: - I swapped the old N42 block for an L28ET block. It had almost no miles on it, so I didn't do anything to it except pull the oil pan to confirm all looked good and clean inside. - I swapped my shaved P90 head and drilled holes for the #5 and #6 cylinder cooling mods. Both of those run to a T and then to the bottom of the thermostat housing. I figure the two most likely sources of exhaust gasses would be a failed head gasket, or damage from when I drilled the holes for the 5/6 mod. I was very careful to not let the bit go past the hole and damage anything inside, but now I'm second guessing myself. Before I pull the head off, are there any other things anyone can suggest? Simple ones are better as I'm really not looking to pull the turbo off with the engine in the car. And is there a simple way to confirm exhaust gasses in the cooling system?

Last week I bought some silicon parts and an air filter from siliconintakes.com and the transaction was perfect.

Yes, 1/4" NPT. Easier to work with than 3/8" NPT.

I had the head off - I wouldn't recommend doing it on - I don't see how to avoid getting AL chips in the cooling system. I'm in the process of converting to turbo so don't have a non-5/6 mod baseline with this engine. However, obviously I am going to be putting more thermal load on the engine when at the track and hope that I won't see the temps go up. If everything goes well, I will have it out on the track in 2 weeks and learn more then.

Here's my setup without hoses. Sorry about the camera phone pictures as I saw your reply just before I had to leave early this am and won't be back until the weekend. The nipples on 5 and 6 will be connected to a T that runs to the thermostat housing.

I just assembled my new MSA stage II turbo cam with Schneider valve springs this weekend and was surprised at how much more effort it took to rotate the cam. I remember a long time ago reading that high performance valve trains consume significantly more HP than stock, and I suspect that's indeed the case here. And before anyone replies - yes, the cam rotated freely before I installed the rockers. I'm wondering if there's an additional benefit of using a stock cam in that you can use the stock springs which reduces the friction losses in the valve train.