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AMV8(1day)

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Everything posted by AMV8(1day)

  1. That looks like its its going to be an awesome build, I don't know how much you've looked into the N/A aftermarket for the F20C, but you could check out a guy named John Grudynski over at Hytech Performance or InlinePro around my neck of the woods. Hytech claimed a solid, bolt-on setup making 283whp on an F22C with 50mm Jenvey ITB's, Cams, retainers, springs, header, race cat, and dual 2.5in exhaust. The kits alittle on the expensive side but supposedly as impressive as the peak power is, the torque and powerband is supposed to be amazing. They had an article in Honda Tuning Aug issue. As far as InlinePro is though, they've gotta be at least the top 3 S2K shops in the country, right now they've got dyno results on a 300+ NA non-stroked F20C and they have a pile of record breaking S2K's in drag and circuit racing, and a GT35R 500+ whp kit on stock internals using a 3mm head gasket to get compression down to 9:1. If your looking for stroker power I hear (through a well established publication, not forum talk) that a F20C will perfectly fit a TSX K24A2 Crankshaft coupled with H22A internals making 2.4L, BrianCrower also makes a nice stroker kit, and I believe inlinePro has a few stroker kits as well. Just my .02, the best of luck with your build, I'd love to see how it handled once you get everything worked out.
  2. Did you ever get the information you were looking for Jared? Not sure how much of a gain I would expect from the DD heads versus the DE heads but it would be nice to hear where the DE's sit.
  3. Not sure how much it costs but I think thats the name for the latest version, they've been tweaking the thing for about 4 years now. How much are you guys expecting to spend on a custom crankshaft?
  4. So has anyone mentioned the Hayabusa V8s being built in the UK yet? the latest version runs to somewhere up to 10500RPMs with 455hp at only 2.8L! It's about the size of your average I4 and only weighs 200lbs, leaving you plenty of room in the engine bay and a beautiful power to weight ratio.
  5. More power, cleaner emissions, and increased fuel economy. Actually direct injection does both, the only reason you are hearing more about its fuel efficiency then its top-end power production is because fuel efficiency is a far more popular topic right now. While yes it does provide better fuel efficiency, it does also provide a noticeable top end power production advantage. Besides, it stands to reason that an engine built to take advantage of much leaner fuel mixtures should also have more provisions built into the head to in the form of better flow. Ferrari is equipping its F430 with direct injection and expects a power bump of 10% and reduced emissions around 40% with better fuel economy as another bonus.
  6. Nice, thanks Jared, do you have any idea about what sizes exactly and how long? although I would like to stike with the Titanium valves the VK45 comes with stock I know I'll have to step up to larger valves to make room for the massive airflow I'm trying to pull off. But if the VK56 runs similar size I might be able to at least use them as a good base to start with. Although I'm trying to stick with an ultra efficient NA setup. I would love to see some more experimenting with FI on the VK45. I know Top Secret built a VK45DETT and dropped it into a G35, as well as a guy with some pretty deep pockets attempting the same thing on one of the other Nissan forums. What was really cool about the guy on the forum's ride was along with a widebody setup, he also had M45 headlights grafted to his front end. It was pretty sick looking once he finally got it balanced right.
  7. Oh, and just in case anyone was wondering I'll probably be using a Z32 tranny with adapter plate unless I start running into issues with fitment or clearances. And I'll most likely have to use at least 550cc injectors although I've gotta crunch the numbers and talk to a direct injection tuner and see how much the shortened spray cycle and the E85 requirements are going to push that number up.
  8. Alright, I've got a decent amount of info on what I need to accomplish my goals but I still need a good deal more on the stock specs of the engine which is one of the reasons I posted here to begin with. I can appreciate the obvious fact that not many if any tuners stateside have direct experience with the direct injection version of this engine but I would love to get any feedback about the rest of the block like how well the stock Titanium valves hold up under high revs and/or boost, how large the combustion chamber is and how conducive it is to combustion at high revs. Just trying to get some outside help on something other than IRL engines and how easy it is to make power with other engines. Some contact info with a Japanese shop that deals with these engines on a regular basis would be great but I understand that even in japan this engine hasn't quite had the attention heaped on it that engines like the RB,SR, and VQ have received. Info on a shop (pref. on the east coast) that has extensive experience tuning highly modified direct injection and/or E85 run engines would be ideal but I'll take all the help I can get, I've obviously tried to educate myself as much as possible on the parts that I don't have alot of experience with but I'm also smart enough to know when to ask for help. Enough ranting for now, gotta go! Thanks guys for the help!
  9. Still having issues with tracking the info on the stock engine down since there aren't any tuners that I know that have worked with the DD version of this engine yet. I've still gotta get some help figuring out required pressure, flow rate, etc. for not only dealing with direct injection considering they only typically get a fraction of the time to discharge the fuel compared to conventional injection, but E85 requires more fuel for the same bang due to lower potential power production.
  10. Thanks for the info Tony. Hey Jared, what is the deck height of the VK56 compared to the VK45? Got more to say but gotta go.
  11. I've searched and haven't been able to pull any numbers out, but considering I'm going for double the horsepower and E85 I'm thinking I'm going to have to find a considerably larger set that will fit the block and be able to spray a sufficient amount in the smaller window left for direct injection.
  12. And clifton, thats where the head re-working, aggressive cams, upgraded valvetrain, and high lift valves are for. The rest of the engine already supports high revving for a v8. PS Love the silver Z, It looks great.
  13. Thanks for the vote Jerminator, I may be just alittle obsessed, as you may have noticed. I study engine theory whenever I can, when I'm not around engines I'm thinking up new combos, viable chassis' for monstrous twin turbo v8's, lightweight 2.6L low-boost I4's dropped into Lotus Elise', As far as poly-quading goes, I'm not 100% on how that would help with an engine equipped with Direct Injection. And that brings me to the head flow issues, I'm sure they had to augment the intake and exhaust ports in some way to make room for the injectors, I can track down a set of VK45DE heads for about $100, but getting ahold of a set of J-spec VK45DD heads will probably prove to be problematic. Thats one of the reasons I'm still holding off until I can have them checked, getting a set of heads up to at least 290 from a possible 250, resulting in a 16% increase would be pretty tough to pull off. But I want to retain the direct injection or else there is obviously no reason to bother with a JDM engine, especially an uncommonly exported one.
  14. While I by no means would call myself an expert, I have spent a decent amount of time around engines and have been looking for a V8 that revs like a Honda for awhile, first looking at BMW's M62 engine but having issues with some of the metals used and the unnecessary price tag involved just for the honor of working with a BMW engine. As for the head flow, obviously at least 290cfm would be required to pull this off, but I have yet to find solid numbers on the stock heads. Before I could go ahead I'm probably going to have to track down a set of heads and get them on a flow bench. As far as the rest of my build, its kind of an exercise in ideal ratios, I realize that these numbers could be reached much easier with more displacement or forced induction, but I'm basically looking for ultimate efficiency with the Honda F20C and the Ferrari F430 4.3L V8 as primary inspiration although I am still trying to get a reasonable amount of torque (albeit a tad on the high end of the RPMs) to be able to putt around town without having to strip the car down to a 1700 lb race car or rev to 7 grand just to get through the light. IRL ENGINE SUGGESTION I've read your comments and appreciate all of them although I don't think I have been clear enough as to my primary motivation behind this build. Although I like the idea of owning an IRL engine in theory, it just wouldn't be a practical or even feasible foundation for a still primarily street based, almost full weight production vehicle build. It would seem that tracking down an IRL engine, finding a fabricator capable of dropping it in and linking it up in a street reliable fashion, finding a tuner and tranny builder capable of working out the dozens of kinks involved with a race engine never intended to go into a production vehicle, having to scrounge around and/or fabricate any and all parts required to maintain such a high maintenance diva of an engine, the serious lack of torque bordering on completely unusable in a street setting, oh, and the fact that it would completely defeat the purpose of the initial undertaking. Wow, thats a big sentence but my point is I still see a far more reasonable cost to benefit within the production based VK as well as the fact that the entire point of the build is to take an admittedly good engine to start with and put it in the realm of exotics not often seen outside of Italy, using an independent engine builders passion for mechanical perfection. HEAD FLOW CONCERNS As far as the head flow, I appreciate the heads up, I was afraid of that which is why I was holding off on solid numbers until I could get some impressions from others with VK head experience, and yes I've seen some of the reports coming out of NZ and their insanely potent VH's. I figured the heads were going to be my biggest bottleneck, but I'm hopeful with a good enough port and polish, larger valves, hopefully I can go far enough out without valve shroud that I can pull this off. But that is why I'm considering going alittle over the deep end on other areas to try to compensate and give the heads as little reason as possible to not live up to expectations. the poly-quad technique may be a viable solution, although I still haven't nailed down how much help creating a swirl effect would be versus a straight up reshaping of the Plus I'm planning on going to E85 for the build due to the higher octane (around 105), lower burn temp, cleans as it burns, and as an added benefit, its cheaper then 87 around here even with the decreased fuel economy. HIGH END AND CUSTOM PARTS The pricetag on this build while alittle extravagant, isn't astronomical. I'm doing alright for myself right now and have the added benefit of still not being trapped in the expensive confines of family life. The Ti rods are because of the piston speeds I'll be hitting even with the relatively short stroke, and knowing me, I'll be hitting them plenty on the track and occasional street sprint. The small increase in stroke is more for the ideal stroke ratios and limits of piston speeds than simply taking the hot rodders "bigger is always better" road. If I was going for that I would simply factor in the 5.1L stroker kit made by Impul or even simpler, go with a VK56. Plus, has anyone ever heard an ITB V8 or V10? If I were a religious man I'm sure god would be speaking to me in those high notes. OTHER MISC. WAYS TO MAKE POWER Obviously there are easier ways to make 600 horses: 383 stroker with carb, heads, cam, and headers could pull it off, turbo 302 with heads and cams could easily pull it off, an almost stock 454 with a cam and head combo could do it with so much torque behind it I'd be eating up rear diffs all day and still lovin it, a 496 would be even simpler after the stroker setup, an RB25DET swap would easily accomplish pretty much any power level I could ever want, an LS stroker 406 could easily accomplish this, etc., etc., etc.. Thats not the point of the build, this build would obviously cost more than most of these other builds and almost all of these builds would be easier and simpler. But I'm sure that there are plenty of people on this forum that understand doing a unique build for the sake of being unique or the love of a certain engine or type of power delivery.
  15. Hey, thanks for the feedback, I've got a big complicated reply sitting on my comp at the house but I had to go to work before I could finish it. But appreciate the $.02.
  16. Okay, so someone please feel free to shoot me down but at least give me reasons why this basic setup wouldn't work: My ideal finished product: 4.809L V8 95.83/83.33 Bore/stroke 600 est. HP@8700-9000RPM 350 est. lb-ft.@7500RPM My method of pulling it off: A JDM sourced VK45DD with the following modifications: Bore taken from 93 mm to 95.83. Stroke bumped from 82.7 mm to 83.33. Massive reworking of the heads geared toward high-RPM horsepower and enlarged valve diameter without causing shrouding. Complete valvetrain replacement with aggressive cams ground to run out of breath between 8700 - 9000 RPMs, Titanium intake valves and valve springs with hollow gas filled exhaust valves. ITB setup Fabricated with approx. 3.11 intake runner area to put the peak torque around 7500RPM. Custom titanium con-rods with forged aluminum pistons. Custom billet steel crankshaft. A final compression ratio around 11.5:1 to 11.9:1 on E85 This gives me a 4.809L engine with a 1.15 bore/stroke ratio, about a 9000RPM ceiling with a 4921 piston speed FPM and a 25 piston speed MPS, Not a hundred percent on deck height, combustion chamber volume, rod length, piston design, ring setup, pin placement, head gasket thickness and material, still having issues tracking down the stock dimensions and what kind of dimensions I would have to work with once I started modifying it. I would obviously like to keep the rod/stroke ratio between 1.6:1 and 1.9:1, as close to 1.75:1 as possible (around 145.83 mm) while still leaving room for piston ring placement and trying to keep a nice combustion chamber shape with flat to dished pistons while maintaining the afore mentioned 11.5:1 - 11.9:1 compression by playing around with the head gaskets and combustion chamber. Pretty sure cryo-treating, nitriding, or shot peening will be necessary but not 100% on which to go with depending on the application. Plasma-moly coated rings will probably have to be used to cut down on friction and help with endurance. The engine already provides 4v per cylinder, direct injection, VVT, lightweight aluminum block with aluminum heads, and was already built with an oversquare bore/stroke ratio, making it in my opinion a perfect choice for a naturally aspirated, high-revving beast.
  17. A ford 460 in a Camaro would qualify as a reservation for a special place in hell. An AMG engine in an M car, subie boxer in a Mitsu, RB26 in a Mustang, all of these are viable reasons for condemning someone to a special place where your tortured day an night by ricers with incredibly loud fart cans and JDM fever.
  18. As far as my understanding goes, rear-mounted turbos are only used when absolutely neccessary because there is no room under the hood or some one is REALLY concerned with F/R weight ratios. The more piping you have between the engine and the turbo, the less responsive it will be. The more the air has to travel between the turbo and the engine, the less efficient and longer the delay between throttle blip and turbo spool-up.
  19. Bang for buck would def. be to just pick up a junkyard or budget block 350. But if your really looking for something different and want alittle more power than you could easily get from a N/A SR, I'd go with an RB25det.
  20. Personally I'm eagerly awaiting the near future developments in E85 effeciancy, octane levels, price, and longevity in street applications both production and aftermarket. Joseph
  21. There's also the unfortunate tendency for different countries to measure their octane differently (Parts of Europe measure their 100 octane like our 93 Japan does something similar, etc.)
  22. Bizarre looking car although I'm pretty sure everyone has come to the conclusion that it is a one off concept racer built for testing and/or racing purposes. Still it would be interesting to see one in street trim. Joseph
  23. Anyway, sorry to jump off topic. Welcome Capri, I hope you find this community to be as great a resource and general hang-out as I have.
  24. it really costs that much out you guys' way? Its only $150 flat rate for the engine and all essentials around my way.
  25. Stony, I'm saying this to you for your own good (and ours) You've breached too far and must come back for the sake of all those that hope to catch you (and us fellow RBZ guys especially) I hope your putting six piston calipers all aroud because I doubt your even going to want to stop until its too late in that thing. Great lookin ride though, real sweet and professional looking. What turbo or you putting on though?
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