Bob_H
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Posts posted by Bob_H
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So I'm doing all this reseach and I come across a few setups which have the MAF AFTER the turbo - seeing pressurized air.
As I understand, the downside is you take the chance of the MAF being susceptible to shock waves and reversion pulses.
However, putting it on the other side of the intercooler will dampen some of those waves, etc..
The only reason this intrigued me was because of the hard time I am having finding good room to fit the two MAF's and intake tubing in addition to the turbo tubing. In the end I think I'll go with a fender mounted intake, but this was intriguing....
Anyone have any experience with this?
-Bob
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So I've been doing a fair amount of research for the last few days, trying to find some good sources for bearings and gaskets. Of course the price varies all over the place.
Here's what I've got thus far:
Gasket kits:
Price -$280 at McKinney,(unknown composition, assume master kit)
-$350 from Phase 2 Motorsports
-$199 Buy-it-now for some aftermarket master kits on E-bay,(various)
-$250 - seems like the best deal. OEM Nissan parts.
I just don't know if I should go with the Cometic head gasket as well, since this has a stock on in it.... I think for now, I'll stick with this set and not worry about the Cometic.
Bearings:
Price - $ 300 for Coated ones referenced in thread above,(same people as the e-bay link above)
- $ 300 for all? bearings w/McKinney, $220 for Rod bearings
- $lost my other reference...
Timing belt
Price: - $125 Phase 2
- $130 McKinney
- NISMO belt - $190 via nismoparts.com
- OE timing belt $25! via nismoparts.com - not sure of the differences here? Any comments? It claims the same belt for RB20/25/26? I just want to replace mine for now.
Looking for more sources. OEM would be fine for now.
I'm getting raped enough with gaskets and bearings,(oh, and fabrication costs...)
Bottom line, the prices for all this stuff is all over the place. Some of the sites we have linked in the main posts don't have the catalogs easily to find on the webpages - such as RBMotoring - that one appears to be the worst to navigate - I can't find squat on it!
-Bob......
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I did at least find their website. What is not clear if this is similar to Swain coatings or just some proprietary coating. Either way, not really sure if its worth extra money or not...
http://www.calicocoatings.com/home.phtml
In addition, I'm trying to figure out if I need "standard" bearings or the specific sized ones... Still looking...
-Bob
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So I checked out his auction - but was confused by the coating he's talking about. Anyone have any idea what a "Calico Coated" bearing is? I hadn't heard of that before.
-Bob
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..... As far as the continues weld, I'm not sure what you mean.
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Refering to the bottom of the pan - James did a stitch type weld where I have a continious bead.
-Bob
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Ok, I got the oil pickups back from the fabricator. Just some shots to give everyone an idea of what they look like. Honestly, right now I wish I had the pans that James had fabricated - mine was welded continuously and it didn't make the best setup. It will work and ultimately will be fine, but the flange isn't perfectly flat and will need to be machined flat....
However, Matt (edit, Matt Wirt...sorry Matt Hutchens) who did the fab for the two pickups,(one for Matt B and one for me), did some nice work. 3/16 of an inch from the bottom, (going from memory). Eventually I'll need to put some basic trap doors in the pan - but I want to get it running first, (see a theme here?).
-Bob
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The fellow in Austin who sells them (Brian Kennedy of Dyno Dynamics) is also the one who tuned the car. He does know how to use it more or less but he's the ONLY one I've met who does. I like options.
Same guy. I wasn't sure how well he knew them, but was trying to give you options - as you pointed out. I agree, options are always better.
-Bob
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ah- many questions...
1. engine management- an Autronic SM4- nice, lots of knobs but nobody in the states seems to know how to use it to it's fullest. Too rare.
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3. Custom oil pan. That was a pain. Took a few tries to get rid of leaks. Should have bought one from mckinneymotorsports.
Mark,
Two thoughts/questions.
First, I have a reference for someone who may know a reasonable amount about the Autronic, if I remember correctly, he may be a dealer? I can send that info via PM if you wish - I'm fairly sure he's up in Dallas.
I retract that, he's in Austin. I don't have any personal experience, and he is somewhat arrogant, but I do know of people who have had success using his services for tuning.
Second, oil pan leakage? Where - flange, elsewhere? My pan is not perfectly flat and I'm afraid I'll have to deal with just that... I plan on plenty of sealant..
I do like your nicely integrated trailer hitch. If TWS and other tracks weren't so far, I'd likely do the same. However a failure of the car 3-4 hours away is what led me to purchase my trailer to begin with,(I was actually 6 hours away at a track when my BMW craped out - broken camshaft).
Last, I wasn't aware that Mckinney motorsports had a custom oilpan? Or are you refereing to the RB20 rear sump pan? Just curious what is out there as my style pan,(which Brad D and James T. built those types) and a personally modified rear sump RB pan are the only two I am aware of. I have seen the orginal cast aluminum pan modified to be a rear sump. We all run into the same issues - the pickup - the reason my motor is disassembled right now and at a fabricator shop,(getting two pickups built - one for me and one for Matt B - and no, I can't have any more made - sorry guys).
Anyways, I didn't see the oil pans on their website, just looking for further info.
I also like what you had them do with the flares - pulling them all the way down in the back. As you can see on mine, they tuck in, exposing the rear of the tire as the front of your front flares do. I had them put the 3m protective coating all over the front and a thicker one on the front of the rear flares. I may still have to put "mud flaps" or similar. Maybe I'll get the Yosemitie Sam ones! J/k guys...
While you can laugh now, I'm sure you have pulled your hair out a lot of times - and it is good to see someone else finish a project of my owns caliber, (although I don't expect 600+hp!). I think you can expect a few questions over the next few months from the likes of Joel and I.
-Bob
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Hey Bob, those breather fittings on the valve covers just twist off. I just wrapped a rag around them and used channel locks to twist back and forth. There just pressed in...
I'm using AN/pipe thread fittings on mine.
Mark, please do post up the detail photos for us all the ponder over..... we like seeing how others have tackled the common mods that have to be done for a complete install.
Thanks in advance... joel
Joel,
I will be changing the breather fittings eventually. Even if I replace them, they will still interfere with the hood release brace if I move it back further. We are required to have the engine in that orientation with the RB25 transmission. I'm assuming that with the 300zx tranny that he has it required the engine to be stood straight up to keep the shifter centered vertically. It is just the first time I have seen a RB positioned like that.
-Bob
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After doing the rb swap in my car the front end sat higher then with L28. I know that because when I put my springs on it was lower in the front then back and when i did the swap it evened it out more. Id say the RB is lighter but not by much.
What???
Not quite correct.
What I think is going on is you have put a heavier engine, and more importantly, heavier transmission, and shifted some weight to the back of the car, loading up your rear springs more. The RB25 and RB26 are most defineately heavier. No question at all.
-Bob
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Mark,
Excellent car - when mine gets running, we'll have to meet up at TWS and wring them out together. I should make it up to Austin on a somewhat regular basis since my sister and her husband live there, (we'll be down in Corpus Christi).
I didn't see it on the site, but what engine management are you using?
I'll have you know that I have an earlier picture of your car still on my computer - it is a contributing factor to my purchase of my current '72 with its huge CCW's.
Another interesting observation - you all stood the motor straight up instead of laying it on its side as it was stock. If you notice my mock up photos here:
http://www.geocities.com/row4navy/rb26swap/enginefrontsmall.jpg
The breather is right in front of the hood latch area. I may end up killing all the hood latch items since I have hood pins and re-fabing the motor mount lower and back to move it to a better location. However, right now, I just want it running!
Great conversion - top notch work for sure. I'm jealous you have a running example and mine is sitting in the garage looking pretty but nothing more.
on edit - what did you do for an oil pan? Do you have any pictures?
-Bob
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John,
I've really missed the track time - I'm ready to get back on it on regular basis.
-Bob
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.....
And it looks like there are quick release fasteners along the bottom edge... for an extension lip I am sure...
Thanks guys - I appreciate it.
The dzus fasteners on the front airdam are for two versions of a front airdam. They aren't particularly nice as they are designed for max effectiveness on the track. I might use them initially, but expect a change down the road once its running.
-Bob
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That my friend is one beautiful car.... Question; how in the heck are you going to fit a IC in that nose set up?
I like the ducting, its just that I can't see room for much of a IC... please elaborate...
vwery, vwery, carefully.....
Its a tight fit, but there is room. I don't have the skills to do so, - so a shop in Birmingham will do the rest. When we travel for our move in Nov, I'll drop it off for 5-6 days and pick it up when we resume travel,(I'll be up at my parents for a few days and at my Wife's aunt/uncles for the rest.
Still working out the details at this time. I want an A'pexi core and we are trying to figure out sizes, etc.. About 6-8 inches in front of the radiator core is clear before the ducting "ducks" down to the opening.
Its a tricky operation - expect pictures when we finish it.
-Bob
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So, I'm taking pictures of the engine bay and intercooler ducting. We will have to fabricate some more ducting and the entire intercooler setup, etc.. This is measurements for the hood, clearance, etc...
Nice reasonably clean engine bay - hopefully it will start having some "parts" soon. You know, brake booster/master cylinder, lines, wires, etc..
I also found a nice surprise. I thought I going to need to run another fuel line from the fuel cell/pump. However, there is already a nice large return line setup for my Fuel injection... isn't that nice?
-Bob
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Well,
Now that it is back from paint, and the fabricator is just about done with the oil-pickup, I'm starting down my 3-6 month road to get this back on the road. I'd love if I could do it before Dec, but with my checking into a new Duty station,(down near Corpus Christi, TX), I might not have as much time as I think.
I'll use this thread to post updates, pictures, etc...
Quick refresher:
"The Super Datsun" was coined by several friends after I bought this from the previous owner. It stuck and was easy to differentiate between this and my '73.
It is a 1972 Datsun 240Z with IMSA fiberglass flares and front fenders with a G-nose. The actual fiberglass has had some significant work to put it in todays condtion. Its a gorgeous car and anyone who wants to swing down and see it, your more than welcome - just ask and we'll coordinate a time. Its well worth the trip.
The engine is the RB26 I bought 3 years ago.... It was destined for another project, which is still ongoing,(really on hold). but with a different motor/desired outcome,(NA L6 pure track day car).
Below are just a few inital pics. I'm putting the engine bay back together so I can drop the RB into it in two weeks,(hopefully after I get the motor assembled!).
I finally sold the old Turbo Tom kit and nitrous - so those who are interested - better luck next time!
-Bob
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Makes sense - but since they are using the GT-R subframe, I don't know if that changes anything,(if it moves the motor, etc..).
So Justin - are you or Full Race planning on a build diary or similar, i.e. what was modified and how? Was it largely bolt in for the subframes or was their significant mods to the body?
I saw on another forum that they are looking at a $12k-15k rolling shell price, (I'm guessing that includes a S13 or S14? At least that was the way it appeared in the Full Race forums).
That means you are looking at a mid $20k car completed. I'm esp. interested in how it compares to the Full Race time attack S14 which has won most of its events. There is a real apples-apples comparison, a well setup RWD S14 vs the R14 setup. For those who haven't read some of the other forums, they are planning on testing and tuning to see if it is faster than their current Time attack S14.
-Bob
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I didn't see any prices - any idea what they will charge for a full kit? Also, to keep it LHD, can they keep the dual turbos?
I'm intrigued for sure....
-Bob
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My weights were from weighing my setup after it was shipped over here via ship. The container had to be weighed accurately - and after I unloaded it all, I weighted the wooden container - arriving at the 700-750 lbs. I don't have the exact figure, but after my house sells and I have some time, I can find the exact number.
The L6 and tranny,(with carbs), has been reliably weighed at around 500 lbs many times, (check forums).
If you do another search you will find that those with the RB26 conversion who have weighed their car find it to be between 2400 and 2700 lbs, ironically about 200-250 lbs more than the base car they started with,(240/260/280z).
So while my figure is not exact, it is an educated/informed "guess".
I realize that most people don't want to believe it is that much heavier, but the reality is - it is. The RB's DOHC, twin turbo's, dual cast iron exhaust manifolds and down pipes, plus all the other associated piping is not insignificant. In addition, the intercooler and oil coolers are in addition to the base L6/tranny weights since they aren't included.
I never stated 50 lbs for the intercooler - but if you think about it, for a big intercooler like J. Soileau's car,(fabb'ed by James - 240zturbo), you are easily talking 30-40 lbs esp. when you consider the piping and connections, etc...
Bottom line - expect about a net 200-250 lb increase over a stock Z.
-Bob
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Your looking about 200+ lbs more than the L6 and tranny setup. Around 700-750 lbs engine, accesories and tranny. Don't forget intercooler, etc.. It may be more like 800lbs total.
Bottom line, take a 240z with the L6 and stock tranny, replace with RB26, RB25 RWD tranny and intercooler/etc.. You can expect at least a 250 lb increase.
-Bob
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I'm leaning more towards the parting out. I have a firm offer on the setup with some payments. I'm not really interested in taking all this with me to Texas, (leaving first week in Nov), so more immediate sales are in my best interest. I haven't made my decision on the offer to pick up the whole thing in a few months.
Let me know what parts you are specifically interested in. I'd like to keep the entire turbo parts together,(the turbo tom pieces are hard to sell on their own...).
-Bob
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So I've had several folks contact me from far away places,(i.e. looking at mailing it).
After packing up and shipping some E46 M3 rims, I'm not as adverse to shipping the setup anymore, but maybe not the really heavy items such as the Cyl. head.
I don't know... It seems the consensus is that it is indeed worth that much. The key is getting someone to buy it as it isn't exactly a normal setup.
Another option,(not a good one in my mind), is to pick up a roller 260 or 280z shell and install the setup in that car. I would guess that with a running setup I could get $4 or $5k. I figure a decent roller is in the neighborhood of 2-3k with engine maybe less.... If I only had 3 weeks off! I think in the end, if I can't sell it before I leave, I'll plan on installing it. Then at least someone gets a driveable setup. My only problem is I'm still really trying to get the Super Datsun up and running, and this would take away from that. (see threads in body and paint for pictures).
-Bob
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I saw you did this dash twice - here and on the black car pictured in the post above. Was it just bondo/fiberglass to mold it to that shape, then covered? Or did you do something different? Any pics of that in-process?
-Bob
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As some of you may know if you browse the classifieds - I put my Turbo-Tom setup for sale.
I won't go into super detail as that is in the ad here:
http://classifieds.hybridz.org/showproduct.php?product=3109
I just want to make sure I'm pricing it correctly. When I first tried to sell it 2 years ago, I overpriced it by way too much,($3500 I think).
I don't have to sell it, but I'd really rather not take it with me to Texas so I'm trying to price it appropriately.
Someone should be able to put all these parts on a stock turbo block and produce some nice power. If they get serious about pumping up the boost beyond 15 or so PSI, they will need race gas and will need to actually put an EGT probe into the downpipe,(already plumbed for it), and watch the temps.
I thought seriously about splitting up the parts, i.e. the HKS flywheel, the autolite distributor, the NOS, the oil pan, you get the idea. I'm sure I could make at least this much, if not more, but I don't want the hassle of tracking that many sales, etc...
I tried to find the Tidewater Z car club online, but the site is not up and running -anyone have a contact up here?
Bottom line - what would you pay, or more importantly, what would you ask if this were yours?
I only ask that if you bring a lower price, please justify why it should be lower.
-Bob
Timing belts
in Nissan RB Forum
Posted
So I see several timing belts available. I searched through our previous threads with no real conclusion on the diffrences.
I can source a stock RB26 timing belt for around $30. The Greddy one for aroudn $130, and they go up from there.
What is the advantage of the higher priced ones? Intended use is sustained high rpm use - i.e. 5000-8000 rpm.
I'm about sick of reading on the other forums written by 13 year olds speculating on the mad tyte improvements the blingy timing belts give. I have a headache....
-Bob