Bob_H
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Posts posted by Bob_H
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I'm talking about this one:
I will admit this is higher priced than the normal hybridz fare - and they have a slightly higher priced one here:
Here is a link to some discussion and a few installation pictures on corner-carvers.com:
http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34419
sorry, that wasn't the install thread - I'll put that in tomorrow. That is just a general discussion thread.
-Bob
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This is a pic I found using stock Z mounts...
In that picture - it has some red engine mounts - I assume those are urathane? Any info on the mounts themselves? I've been trying to find an alternative,(stiffer), to the stock Nissan mounts.
-Bob
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Exactly. The book Tune to Win has some more detailed info on flow and radiators, how to shape them so that you get good flow across the entire radiator, etc. if you're interested Bob.
I assume that was for me? Do you mean that book has info on how to shape the ducting? What are the details on the book? author/etc..?
-Bob
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Ok, back into the car.
Small background - my wife is heading to Wake Forest to attend PA school - and she gave me a "goal" if you will: Get the Z running for the National Z Car convention in Oct. She's going to be gone for the next 15 mos of so, and I only have flying and the car.
So here is the projects on the burner and the reasoning:
Oil pan - Complete re-do. I'm modding the stock pan to fit my needs. While I have a fantastic oil pan and pickup, there are too many proven issues when you take the RB onto the track and seriously run it, (road racing). Take a look at Mark's issues, (spun bearings). This is a serious track car, so it needs a serious oiling system. My current pan is good, just not good for what I want to do.
Transmission - I'm putting in my GF-5R, which means I need to find a bellhousing that will work. They are out there, but I can't identify it.
New motor mounts - to move it further back - but I'm not 100% on this. It changes a few things.
Fuel pump plumbing and wiring - none exists.
Brand new wiring all around - existing is patched, etc...
ducting for the front of the G-nose - pending some info form the aero testing.
Lots more, but its midnight and I'm flying tomorrow. Expect more updates in the coming months. I hope to have it running by late Aug.....
-Bob
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The circle track article states:
This team built the airbox in front of the radiator with the top angled down as it runs from the radiator to the front grille opening. The old box ran straight from the top of the radiator to the top of the nosepiece and did not allow enough air space for a low-pressure area to exist. The gain in downforce from this design is estimated at over 180 pounds.So they're saying that BOTH of the boxes that they used sealed the nosepiece to the radiator, but this version of the box allows for negative pressure directly above it. Just that small increase in available space for the neg pressure to act upon change the downforce by 180 lbs. That's not counting the rest of the hood!
Jon,
That's not the way I read it. My G-nose has the exact same issue, and I'm glad you posted that article because I was originally going to find a way to run it straight forward, but that didn't allow the hood to open/close w/o pinning all 4 corners,(not very track friendly).
But back to your assertion - if the change in angle of the top of the enclosure increased downforce - I don't think it was from allowing "more space for the neg pressure to act upon", but rather it changed the nature of the flow around the car, meaning less air was let in that opening, possibly pushing more air above the car, contributing to downforce.
I don't see how a change in the design affecting the area behind the bumper/air dam would allow more neg downforce. I am fairly sure it comes from the change in overall flow around the car. I imagine that the "straight top", if you will, allows more pressure to build up in front of the radiator, which "robs" some of the pressure in front of the car which can go over or under the car. For all we know,(it isn't specificed in the article), it could be the opposite -that the "curved top" design allows a greater pressure in that space, changing the flow in front of the car.
Let me try another tact to explain what I'm having a hard time conveying.
Take the 240's opening. If you sealed everything up front so the only "hole" is the radiator itself you have a ~1ftx4ft opening,(rough guess). The airflow at the front of the car has to deal with this big "box" in front of the car. If we close that down to a 6"x2ft opening,(the size of the one pictured in the article), the "box" creating drag is smaller allowing more of the airflow at the front of the car to flow elsewhere - where? we can't really say.
Now, the opening didn't change in the design in question - so that to an extent becomes moot. However, the opening behind the 6"x2ft opening is larger,(in the "straight top" design) and changes the flow path to the radiator, meaning there could be more or less flow - again, we don't know. But if there were less flow,(with the "curved top" design) it means more of the airflow around the car is going over and around the car, not through the radiator - which is my assumption for the reason the downforce is higher,(less flow through the radiator = less under the car, and more over/around the car).
On edit to clarify from the words in the article - it states:
"The old box ......did not allow enough air space for a low-pressure area to exist"
So in essence, the "straight top" box had a high pressure in front of the radiator, where the "curved top" had a low pressure,(or lower, it didn't specify the datum). This should contribute to my thought that less air was flowing through the radiator, and more was flowing elsewhere.
That was my take on the article.
Either way, it finally justified me installing a "curved" top to the airbox for the intercooler and radiator allowing me to keep the hood installed with hinges instead of 4 corner pins. I have pictures somewhere - just not where I can find them - I think they are in my Super Datsun thread... I'll take a look later.
-Bob
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I have exactly 104 days until I get shipped in a rather uncomfortable box to Japan to be part of CAG 5 more specifically VAW-115...
Enjoy Japan - I recently finished my tour with 121 - the Bluetails and am now down in Kingsville, TX instructing with VT-21. I'm guessing with the long timeline you are a NFO? If so, I'm so sorry that you had to deal with all that crap! I don't envy the NFO pipeline there. I heard our former Bluetails weren't the "prefered" instructors - i.e. they were the hammers.
Wait, on edit- I just saw your location is Jackson - does that mean you are in school at Meridian? If so, what rate?
Anyways, the LS1 in the GT-R, you'd lose the AWD so I don't know that its a prefered swap......
If you can ship a clean early 240 over there, you can sell it for a nice profit though as they are in high demand. I have heard $15-20k.
Enjoy Japan - everyone I know who went there really did.
-Bob
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I was recently visiting The Datsun workshop (http://www.geocities.com/row4navy/) and noticed his section titled "What's new, aka recent updates" and found this dated April 26, 2004: (http://www.geocities.com/row4navy/rb26swap/72Datsun.html). I also noticed that this cool fella lives in Georgia (a few hours from here in TN), and that he is in the NAVY, and it takes a while for him to answer his emails (I sent him one about THIS pull through carb/turbo setup). I also noticed that the intake manifold says "Tom's".....second pic.....and did a Switchboard.com search on a "Tom's Performance" to no avail.
Jeff,
Well, I don't seem to have gotten your e-mail. That's my website and my car - or rather my car before I bought it and its now repainted. The GA plate was the previous owner - I did live in Norfolk, VA at the time, and now live down in Corpus Christi, TX. The current thread detailing my work is here:
http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=115751
The guys hit it well - that is a Turbo Tom setup which has been HIGHLY modified beyond the original kit. Just about everything about the kit was changed and that was the 8th turbo upgrade he had installed. I sold that kit to a guy in the midwest and he should be picking it up later this summer.
To be honest, for your HP goals, it is SUPER easy to achieve with the stock L6 turbo from the 280zx. There are lots and lots and lots of posts detailing exactly what needs to be done. The electronic portion is not that hard to deal with at all and the cost will be significantly less than any draw through, etc.. setup - mostly because there are many proven methods to get that kind of hp.
Good luck either way - and my suggestion is to stick with the L6 turbo, its easy and proven not to mention plentiful compared to a rare setup like the Turbo-tom setup.
-Bob
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Just a heads up on any of the front pipes fir the rb26. They wont bolt in a Z you will have to cut both pipes off and reweld so it fits. It is alot easier then making it from scratch though. Thats what i did with mine.
I guess I should have said it in the original post - I'm not looking to install these on my Z - but rather put these up for sale as I have the Nismo and Apexi version. The Nismo one is bent up a bit from a forklift moving the car, but matches my downpipes internal dia -hence my desire to sell the Apexi front pipe. I know its not cheap - but I don't know how much to price it initially.
-Bob
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Guys,
Where can I find the price for a new Apexi front pipe for a RB26,(more properly, the GT-R)?
(BTW - on edit to clarify, I'm not looking to install this on my Z, but rather sell one I have)
By front pipe, I'm referring to the pipe which connects from the two downpipes to the exhaust, it is next to the transmission in the GT-R.
This is the pipe in question:
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....RB26 Eagle rods (every body says their CHEAP crap)...
Can you point me to info showing why they are called "cheap crap"? Just wondering.
-Bob
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This is a placeholder to move my SuperDatsun project info currently located here:
http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=115751
In a few weeks the push to get it ready for the 20th annual Z-car convention in FL is on and will be documented here.
-Bob
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Bob,
You have until September to get it running! Why? Because it belongs in the Ultimate Z Challenge at the 2007 Z Convention!
I hope all you guys are planning to come!
Bob... seriously... You HAVE to get that car here!!
Ken
Ken,
Well, I finally took a look at the site and what you guys are doing - impressive to say the least. So now the question is do I push hard to get it running by then? I say yes! I don't know how it would fare in the Ultimate Z challenge considering it will be in the neighborhood of 26-2700lbs...Even with 400+ hp. But I did see that Eric's old car,(now Wolf Z), and PrimadonaZ will be there,(at the convention that is) - so maybe I do need to get off my duff and finish it and trailer it the 1200 miles this Oct. I'll make the final decision in the next few weeks.
-Bob
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I assume you removed the coolant "log" and replaced them with the 3 individual hoses to help with heat? I.E. the super secret cylinder head mod? Looks like you just threaded the bosses down into the intake and then put the AN fittings?
-Bob
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.... But there are tuners who are willing to learn another EMS system at a discounted rate, which is good.....
Yes, there are, however, I don't want them learning on my motor, esp. since it will be pushing upwards of 600 hp - even with an agreement about a "blown" motor due to bad tuning as you pointed out, I still don't want them learning on mine - every case I know of ends up being more expensive in the long run, even with a "discounted" tuning rate.
-Bob
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.... I don't see why AEM is the only choice here. but carry on...
Noone ever said it was the only choice - those are your words.
However, AEM is one EMS which is well known by many people who are familiar with how to tune it in my area - making it a much more attractive option.
As an example, I've been at the track this weekend, and Mark with his silver 240Z with the RB26, (the extreme one), and we were discussing that he went with a very capable EMS - Autronic, but noone around here has ever worked with it - making maximizing its potential very difficult, not to mention expensive. Yet in this area, there are many tuners with lots of AEM experience, making the tuning of a brand new engine much easier, not to mention more capable.
-Bob
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the AEM is a standalone, so how would this differ from your other options?
Because it plugs into the stock wiring vs. having to run all new wiring from the standalone,(such as MOTEC, TEC, etc..).
Makes it somewhat simpler and utilizes all the factory sensors - where as some use GM, etc...
See here:
http://www.aempower.com/ViewProduct.aspx?ProductID=950
The "unmounted" picture should give people an idea of what I'm talking about.
Here is the basic info on the P-n-P system from AEM:
http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=62
-Bob
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I'm curious about the AEM as well - so you cleaned up the stock wiring, and then ran the AEM.... That may be an option for me to consider since I have been hesitant to go down the road of stand-alone and the associated wiring,(which really isn't all that much).
-Bob
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After going through all of the shitty wiring diagrams I had on hand, I really believe the wiring is quite simple. The biggest pain was actually getting rid of the unecessary plugs/wires from the rb harness. I have a HUGE ziplock bag full of them that were removed.
I will be trying to document this as well as possible, but I will wait until the car actually runs to post up, just to avoid posting any errors I might have made.
I for one will be waiting for that info - as I plan to cull out all the crap from my wiring harness - much which is clearly "extra".
-Bob
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.... Next time that you are out driving around .....
Driving around!
No really, thanks guys for the compliments - your just making me feel bad for not working on it recently!
Every once in a while, I go into the garage and pull off the cover and stare at it for an hour or so....
I did work in the garage all day today cleaning it out and organizing the remainder from our move.
Maybe this weekend!
Anytime anyone is down here in Corpus Christi or nearby, drop me a line and come by and see it - I may be biased, but I think its worth it.
-Bob
PS- I recently bought a serious turbo upgrade for the motor....and I don't even have it running yet! Can you say project creep!
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E-mail sent.
-Bob
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Ok, I found out the max efficiency is supposedly 77%. I'm still looking for the maps.
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Specifically, can you look in the turbo section for the RB26,(Skyline GT-R), and look at the GT/Lemas Turbos? I'm looking for either a scan of that page, or a break down of what it states. The older catalogs will have the compressor maps for it,(it was the best turbo NISMO offered for the RB26).
What is the max efficiency if it doesn't have a compressor map?
Thanks,
Bob
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And as another question, what is a very high compressor efficiency? I.E. low 80's, mid-high 80's? What is the highest you have seen?
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Well, I've looked high and low for this specific compressor map to no avail....
Specifically, I have the Nismo GT-Lemas turbos, part number 14411-RS581
A general page with different turbos can be found here:
http://www.jdm-imports.com/JDM_STUFF/Turbos.htm
Its the 5th from the bottom.
I can't for the life of me find a compressor map for this turbo....
Anyone help here? They were the same turbo's used on the Skylines used in the 24 hrs of Lemas, etc...
-Bob
Finally got to track the RB
in Nissan RB Forum
Posted
Matt,
Glad you are taking it to the track.
I don't think the pan and pickup you and I have will solve the problems. I am actually in the process of fabricating a new pan setup - but am still in the planning stages.
Our pans/pickups are fantastic for someone who won't be on the track like you and I,(not referring to the 1/4 mi track).
I'll be posting detailed info when I do start that process here in a month or so. Right now I'm dealing with fueling and wiring issues. The engine should come back out in the next few weeks so I can install the oil restrictor, the rear cyl head drain, work on the oil pan, etc...
I'm still shooting to have it running by Aug so I can troubleshoot for at least a month before the Z car convention.
-Bob
Edit, to clarify:
I'm making a new pan because I feel the aluminum is too thin on my current pan and would require some extensive baffling to ensure a good supply to the pickup. The baffling is fairly straightforward, but the oil return is more complicated and addressed in the many threads about oil here and on other sites. I'm not willing to keep my current pan w/o some reinforcement to the thin aluminum.