yellowoctupus
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Posts posted by yellowoctupus
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Kenne Bell Superchargers are pretty weird to take apart, and almost everybody shys away from doing it themselves because of a few 'special tools' and timing the gears to the rotors. This guy is the only one to have pictures up online I can find, but does a pretty good job with details. Don't want to lose this link.... http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/showthread.php/168234-has-anyone-rebuilt-a-kenne-bell
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Made endplates, first hole sawed them rough, then used my poor mans boring bar (a mill bit...) to size them to a slip fit.
Clamped up on the intake, things look good. Mockups are great, as they open up a lot more ideas. I think I'm going to change a few details pertaining to the air coming out of the lower two intercoolers, but nothing rash or drastic.
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Started cutting metal today! I got all of my tubes resized (I know, crazy). I couldn't find any al tubing in the size I needed, so I bought some 1.75/1.5 tubes off eBay, then reamed the inside out to 1-9/16, which is in the middle of the tolerance given by Laminova. I don't know why they didn't just specify 1.5 for the tube size, and drop the diameter of their parts back from there. Whatever. Reaming the tubes took a LONG time, as I took it all off in one pass, and you can only grip the tube so tight on the other end before distorting the shape, or so light that it slips. So, there was a learning curve, but the intercooler cores fit GREAT now.
I also 'ported' the second IMRC today, so we'll see if I can get my end plates cut and maybe welded up too.
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Another note, FLOWABLE SILICONE like this stuff from Permatex is the BOMB. I was planning on redoing my windshield and rear hatch glass gaskets, as they're so old that water weeps past the glass/rubber sealing surface. Not anymore! It's a small tube (like rtv size) but I did my Mustang, the Z and a window on my Willys with no problems. You cut the tip as small as possible, run a tiny bead next to the glass/rubber and it is seriously un-noticable. It goes on so freakin smooth, and it does 'find' leaks, as it flows (I'm guessing capillary action?) into the joints where it's leaking. This is NOTHING like silicone caulk or RTV. So far so good. For $5 I don't have to change out all of my gaskets? Yeah, I think so.
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Not too exciting for the readers out there, but I NEED to have my heater/ defrosters hooked up, it's lame driving around in insulated coveralls and wiping the windshield from the inside every few minutes with a handkerchief to see...
The short version of the story is the heater / firewall pass-throughs put the hoses directly into the back of the block, so I cut the ends (~1.2") off, and soldered 90° Copper 1/2" elbows on. Also, the hose part number is a Napa/ Gates 10777 (for my reference). About 3" long, 3" diameter 180° elbow 5/8" both ends. I had also cut off the Ford steel lines on the back of the block prior to installing the engine, and the ends were MUCH larger, and I believe, different sizes for some reason. (Go Ford....)
On a 78 with AC, the pass through is a single tube for the passenger line, and a vacuum operated valve for the other. Of course the valve had to be disassembled to solder it without damaging the seals, but it also had to remain disassembled in order to get it through the firewall. Not fun putting it back together way up under the dash, but not terrible either.
So far, I pressure tested the lines with air into a bucket of water and everything seemed ok, I'll bleed the system tomorrow and hopefully will see no weird leaks anywhere. This car now has 6 heater hoses I think. Cute.
ALSO, I've started mocking up some of the 8.8 IRS swap parts, making layout jigs for when i make 'real' new a-arms etc. I'm not 100% sure how I'm going to immobilize the bottom of the strut, but I have a few ideas. Hopefully I can dig out old heim joints and what not laying around the shop to make mockup parts on the cheap.
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I hadn't thought of blowing sideways to the ports, interested to see how it works for you.
So, after further reading, I found the HP rating they give each intercooler tube is not rated on btus, but rather by shear air flow. If they are arranged all in a row as I showed above, they'll only support 150x2=300hp instead of 150x4=600hp. Oops. I'm redesigning it now, having the tubes placed between the heads into the valley a little. Things are super tight with these heads.
I also did some "porting" to one of the IMRC blocks, which I'm using to reduce the crazy machining time I'll already have into this manifold.
The highlighted part is one of the IMRC blocks. Getting the butterflies out was pretty easy. Since I'm not using them again, i just knocked off the screw heads with a chisel. Sounds cro-magnon, I know, but they're all covered in carbon and are a PITA to get out with a screwdriver.
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I got a 240z back half yesterday to mock up the 8.8 stuff in. Rayaapp2 told me there's roughly 2" different between the 240z and 280z chassis as far as strut tower height is concerned, which is noted, and of course I have a R200 mustache bar in my '78 and a R180 in the '71 back half. Otherwise, I think this half car will be invaluable for mocking everything up, and making all of my suspension parts. I'm thinking of using a '90's to 2000's Mustang front strut, as it has a two bolt mount (to the spindle/hub assembly) and should work on my adapter plates from the Mark VIII hubs.
In similar news, I now have a supercharger to work with, and my intercooler parts are on their way too! I have an older Autorotor (Kenne Bell, Lysholm, Whipple etc) that's in pretty good shape. It's an OA3150, which is a 1.5L, so it's a little on the small side, but it's what came on the early Kenne Bell kits, and it's a good cheap place to start. It does need rear bearings, but they look very easy to replace. I can't imagine any part of this SC is difficult to repair. They're pretty simple.
The intercoolers I have are from a company called Laminova, and they're a bit different than the standard 'radiator' looking air to air or liquid to air intercoolers. These are liquid cooled, but they have a bajillion (yes, I counted) annular cooling fins, and you force your air around the outside of the tubes. They're supposed to be VERY effieient, and they're in OEMS like the Cobalt SS, Cadillac STS, Camaro SS, supercharger kits. (Among a bunch of others....)
Here's a few pictures of the cores and their uses. I recommend you look into this link too, if you're curious about how they work past my brief post here:
http://97.74.32.155/files/intercool.pdf
NSX intake mounted cooler setup from Science of Speed (defunct?).
Clearances available. It's VERY tight to get this all under the hood. 7.5" from the heads to touching the hood. 5" between heads. 4" below intake mounting surface (if I had chosen to run a cobra style intercooler.
Here's some examples of the Cobra setups, Eaton Lower, KB upper (unit looks very similar to mine):
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Nice Ray. So far I've had no leaks on my weird copper crush washers (~15k mi?) but it's always good to have a fix ready before it's broken.
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So, two things I've given some thought to for other Mod Motor swappers:
1. SOHC F150 Exhaust Manifolds for SOHC Mustang engine guys. The passenger side at least, I think has a much easier exit direction than the Mustang's manifolds. The Mustang manifold turns directly into the pocket created by the firewall, inner fender and frame rail (see earlier posts for pictures of my exhaust). (stock photos below courtesy RockAuto) PS. The stock drivers side Mustang manifold worked fine for me. I wouldn't bother looking into changing it.
2. Mark VIII motor mounts look like they'd bolt directly up to the SBF style mount that's used by Brian Laine etc over the years (single through bolt from isolator to engine cradle. These mounts should bolt up to either the SOHC or DOHC platforms. (Ie, I have SOHC Mustang mounts on my DOHC Mark VIII engine, but would do it with the Mark VIII mounts next time for the SBF style mounts, and much cleaner looking cradle design.)
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This is a great little 'truth be told' guide explaining which parts were 28spline, 31 etc.
Added a sweet Xref sheet for CVs. Doesn't directly have the inner axle shaft info I need, but it might be good enough for narrowing down some guesses.
http://interparts.com/download.htm
PS. The link isn't directly a download, its just the page you can download the files from as a PDF.
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7.5 axles are a bit smaller (in diameter) according to the Factory Five paperwork. (pg6)
https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/IRS-STD-rev-K.pdf
This PDF install manual has some good info in the front about which Ford cars came with IRS, Limited Slip etc.
Thanks for the heads up though. Any leads I can get on stock replacement parts are certainly welcome. I'm actually wondering aloud now if any of the 4wd 8.8 fronts came with the same size axles to the short side (ie, Ford Expedition etc).
From what I can find, the 240z, 280z etc have 53" track width for the wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface (WMS-WMS) (if anyone knows otherwise, let me know, I haven't actually measured my Z yet). I measured the Mark VIII setup on my garage floor prior to disassembly, and it was approximately 62.5" WMS-WMS.
I'll upload my axle sketch for the stock axles sometime for future reference. If the above measurements are correct, I need a center shaft that's 5" shorter than the stock Mark VIII shafts.
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Tore into the rear end today, and found one thing out I was a little disappointed in; I can't recut new splines on the OEM Ford shafts, as they 'neck down' after the splines. Thanks Ford, you just saved 6oz from a 2ton car. Oh well. Here's how I held the hub from spinning while removing the spindle nut. I think it's a 36mm, but I had an english socket which fit nice and tight. An impact would probably pop these right off, but it was 1am. Not impact wrench time at my house.
One tip to remove the shafts from the outboard CV shaft is called the 'pipe drop' method.
The Ford service manual says "NOTE: The interconnecting shaft cannot be removed from the outboard CT joint. Outboard CV joints are serviced as assemblies, including the interconnecting shaft, boot, clamps, grease and circlips."
Essentially, you can 'pop' the shaft and outermost wire circlip through the cv bearing holder using the mass of the shaft itself. Simply have a pipe that's a few inches (feet etc) longer than the center shaft that JUST fits over the splines, and drop the whole assembly on the floor. Alternatively I used my vice on a shorter piece of pipe and it came out so easily, it was ridiculous. I had been trying to beat the shaft (...I know...) with a bronze punch on the inner bearing race which did NOTHING. I think it took two drops and the shaft dropped right into my hand.
This was helpful: http://www.ffcars.com/forums/66-2006-roadster-archives-read-only/155195-calling-donor-irs-breakdown-experts.html#post1345108
Factory Five makes new shafts, with stock lengths (for their AC Cobra IRS kits) and in non-stock lengths, I'm going to get a price on new shafts from them, and maybe elsewhere, if I can find someone else who makes them. Worse come to worse I'll make them myself, but it's just one more time sucker if I have to do it at home.
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I've always counted on the concept: it's not how big it is that matters, rather, it's what you do with it.
Says the guy with a 6 liter in his car...
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I like your front radiator support, it really opens up the front end for hose routings, air flow, etc. Besides, the stock support always gets in the way when you're skidding an engine in.
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Independent 8.8 ford rear
All the cool kids are doing it....
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Nice!!! I'm just building a "low budget" junkyard car for fun
I can get behind that. Junkers, (so long as they don't leave you walking home) can be the most fun.
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Good find on the T5, the shifter is probably worth that.
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Yep, you definitely can swap 5.0 and 5.8 camshafts as long as you match roller to roller, etc. Of course now you'll have 5.0 firing order, but that's no showstopper.
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8.8 is out. Car is ready to be picked up by the next 'for scrap only' owner..
Really not terrible getting the rear end out. Drop the Exhaust, gas tank (gas tank probably not necessary, but it was already falling down on this car...) then unbolt all 4 of the subframe mounting points (these are ALWAYS rusty, and very hard to get out, if you can without breaking the bolts or snapping the unibody welded in 'nuts') . All of mine came free, but it took a while. I also grabbed ALL of the Ebrake cables, including the push on push off foot lever, as you never know what little piece of hardware you'll need. The rear air springs are easy to pop out too, after you let the air out (just clip the harness on one of the springs, and power it 12v+ to the orange wire, ground to the grey wire) there's a little spring tab you push which keeps the whole air spring from spinning, then you just spin the whole thing off. I was able to do both wearing rubber / mechanics gloves. They have a double 'keyhole' looking engagement that should pop right out of the unibody once you spin them.
Oh, a nice/ interesting point, the rear assembly is PERFECTLY balanced when you pick it up by the pumpkin on the jack. I pulled it out of the car on the jack and the whole thing just slowly spun around on the jack. It's nice when for once something doesn't fight you.
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Well, time to breathe some NEW life into the never ending saga of my car being in pieces. It's all together and driving right now, but I have a stub axle that feels loose (???) on it's splines, and I've been breaking universals only with a 4.6 and street tires. Sooo... I brought home a 1994 Mark VIII to cannibalize. I am going to (eventually) make the rear end fit up in my Z, and I'm going to use the spare engine to build up a supercharger manifold, etc. The 4.6 DOHC is a cool engine, but it still lacks the low end punch the Z NEEDS.
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The Ford engine family that included 221, 260, 289, 302 (5.0L), and 351W all have 90 degree angles between their banks
Duly noted. I have a 351w in my Mustang, not sure what I was thinking. V6's or something???
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Quick Reference Sheet of Ford Z Build ups, PM me to add more to the list, or to update erroneous info.
Ford Modular Motor Swaps (4.6L, 5.4L):
- 1978 280z + SOHC/DOHC 4.6 (yellowoctupus on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/97812-460zgt-project-build/
- DOHC 240z on Ratsun (abandoned?) http://community.ratsun.net/topic/54796-1974-260z-46dohc/
- DOHC Lincoln 4.6 + 240z 'Vert (PnyPwr on HybridZ ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/47019-anyone-else-doing-a-46-4v-into-a-240/
- 4.6 SOHC 280zx (RichRacing on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/96496-project-460zx/
- 2001 Cobra + 280z (abandoned?)(4.6 Cobra Z on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/121534-46-dohc-280z/
- 4.6 Mark VIII / Cobra + 76 280z (Mitchnandy on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/user/2167-mitchnandy
- Mark VIII DOHC +240z Swap (Northeredave on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/100949-46l-ford-dohc-modular-motor-in-my-240z/
- Greg's 240z + 2001 Cobra DOHC (abandoned?)(gls355 on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/113828-46-dohc-svt-in-a-240z-here-we-go/
Ford Windsor Engines (289, 302, 351w, etc)
- Brian Laine's well documented 302 Conversion http://www.lainefamily.com/240Z_V8_Conversion.htm
- Terry Oxandale's 5.0 (No pictures, lots of info) (BlueovalZ on HybridZ) http://www.zhome.com/rnt/FordPower/index.html
- Terry Oxandale's Pictures http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/pictures?userid={7DC317B0-8EDB-4B2E-A837-F708D07C9769}&inv=9C67398D46D99D9&userid={7DC317B0-8EDB-4B2E-A837-F708D07C9769}&inv=9C67398D46D99D9
- Pete Papriska's 5.0 Writeup (pparaska on HybridZ) http://alteredz.com/
- Dan's 74 5.0 Swap (74_5.0L_Z on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/user/30-74-50l-z/
- 351w Fits (gene_w on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/32159-alsils-mounts-with-a-351w/
- Kris' 302 Swap http://datsun.getyours.com/default.htm
- Old 5.0 Swap, dead links, lots of info still.. (JoshB 240z on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/20535-50l-install-with-pics/
- Mark's 260z in Japan (74.5 347z on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/user/266-745-347z/
- Mark's Motor Mount Design (74.5 347z on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/uploads/1336572473/gallery_266_1021_62705.jpg
- Greg Wheeler's 5.0 240z (gwheeler on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/71855-fs-1972-240z-with-ford-v8-in-portland-or/?do=findComment&comment=682087
- Greg's 500z photobucket pictures (gwheeler on HybridZ) http://s237.photobucket.com/user/g_wheeler2001/library/Project%20500Z?sort=3&page=1
- Steve Todkill's photobucket pics (unfinished?) (s3079893 on HybridZ) http://photobucket.com/albums/d34/s3079893/?sc=1
- Mike '77 + 302 (dead link??)(Rival5 on HybridZ) http://206.169.90.30/mike/view_album.php?set_albumName=Z-Project
- Al Silveria's notes (Alsil on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/10559-so-all-i-gotta-do-is-fab-some-50-motor-mounts/?p=76947
- Ali's 5.0 '77 (MY77Z on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/51750-500z-progress-photos/
- '70 240 + 302 (er34gtt2000jp on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/53314-had-to-post-our-sbf-project/
- SBF Swap (stangracr on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/61369-new-pictures-sbf/
- SBF Swap 2 (stangracr on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/62818-new-pictures/
- Nick's 240 + 5.0 Cobra (TheNick on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/63662-new-project-240z-cobra/
- Dart Block in a 240z (lilredz on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/62941-shes-runnintoo-bad-its-raining-for-2-weeks/
- '77 + 302 (Capt_Zorro on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/29043-photos-of-my-77-z/
- '78 + FI 5.0 *Sold* (JustChou on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/85022-78-280z-with-injected-ford-302-50-swap-norcal/
- 75 302 +73 240z - Engine Mount info... (ukcats07 on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/91886-redesigned-my-cradlemount-setup-pics/
- 302 Swap (Shemyazaz on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/108307-280z-302/
- 76 +302 (NateDaGreat on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/112712-302-v8/?p=1057290
- 302 + 71 240z (ottoauto on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/90729-just-picked-up-my-first-v8-240z/
- 240z + 68 302 (akaryrye on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/90018-just-bought-a-240z-w-a-ford-engine/
- 260z + 5.0 FI (V8INtheZ on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/72463-started-my-2nd-v8-s30project-mongoose/?do=findComment&comment=688497
- 302 + 240z (josephg on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/88770-thinking-back-about-my-flywheel-install/?do=findComment&comment=843110
- 260z + 89 5.0 Megasquirt (Zhunter on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/121944-50-260z-startup/
- 351w + 260z (Ga. Piddler on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/48582-351z/
- 86 280zx + 351w (86350zx on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/120301-my-z8-build-lots-of-pics/
- 240z + 87 5.0 FI (timothyblythe240z on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/121510-347-z/
- '77 280z + 5.0 (Bubbadog127 on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/114763-50-cobra-280z/
- Scott Holcombe's 5.0 75 280z (PalmettoZ on HybridZ) http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/98769-brian-lanes-302-kit/
- '72 240z +5.0 HO (Rudypoochris on HybridZ) https://forums.hybridz.org/topic/52477-rudypoochris-ford-50l-ho-powered-72-240z/
The following are Missing Build Post Links, please email me if you have info, pictures, links etc...
- 387 Clevor No build post yet? ((LMoore56 on HybridZ))
- 2.3L + ?? Build Post Missing ?? ((V8INtheZ on HybridZ))
- Mike Gibson ((SCCA on HybridZ))
- Missing Build Post Link...((The Woj on HybridZ))
- Missing Build Post Link...((Hitman47 on HybridZ))
- Missing Build Post Link...((Beau M on HybridZ))
- Missing Build Post Link...((Roamer on HybridZ))
- Missing Build Post Link...((WHP on HybridZ))
- Missing Build Post Link...((Ferd/289 on HybridZ))
- Missing Build Post Link...((Just Jim on HybridZ))
- Missing Build Post Link...((Sven on HybridZ))
- Missing Build Post Link...((ecp48 on HybridZ))
- Missing Build Post Link...'72 240Z 302/C4 ((Just Jim on HybridZ))
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Cool video man! I saw that little blue "Like This" box in your post, and said, yes, I do like this. Upon clicking it I found got this:
It's the first time I've EVER hit one of those buttons....
Coyote Motor in 240Z thoughts.
in Ford V8Z Tech Board
Posted · Edited by yellowoctupus
Yeah, grabcad is cool when the models are accurate. Props to getting the Coyote interest rolling again. They're getting more and more plentiful and more and more affordable as 5.0 trucks / vans start hitting the wrecking yards. What program are you using? I found an online free program called 'OnShape' that's been serving me well for my 4.6DOHC manifold concept work.
One thing to remember on 'overall width' measurements is often the wide part is located somewhere you don't care about. Ie, when I switched from the SOHC to the DOHC 4.6, I have almost the same shock tower clearances, as the wide part (cam chain centerline) was in front of the shock towers by a few inches. Widths found online show ~26 for the SOHC and ~29 for the DOHC, and I had NO problem fitting the engine in the chassis. Well...no sheetmetal work was required anyways to get things to fit, besides removing the old crossmember mounted engine mount.