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Everything posted by clocker
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I thought I'd made it clear that I didn't consider the JBWeld an appropriate "fix" but that is hardly the only option available. No one, certainly not myself, is advocating a potentially dangerous mod but really, changing the "feel" of the steering to accommodate a driver's preference does not have to result in death. I take issue with your attitude that because the play in the wheel doesn't bother you, it shouldn't bother anybody and if it does, they're just whining to cover up their inadaquacies.
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Key sparks when touching door handle
clocker replied to markib85's topic in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
Seafoam is nothing to fear but it ain't gonna do anything to your vac lines. Frankly, your entire electrical system seems hacked up and fubar'ed and needs a thorough going over. It's bad enough to deal with the normal effects of aging and only gets worse when some yahoo has been meddling as well. You really can't afford to have mystery boxes and switches tied into the harness...either figure out what they are or get rid of them. Fortunately, the Z has a very rudimentary electrical system (especially if you're carbed instead of FI) and it's not hard to go through it and get it sorted properly.- 16 replies
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- wiring
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Note that I never discussed the "fix" as it was specifically applied (because NO, I don't consider JB weld or enamel paint a suitable fix), I was responding to your position that the problem was not worth addressing at all. I am not familiar with enough Z's to know if "loose steering" is a common issue or if the OP just has a particularly worn example but either way, I don't see why attempting to rectify the problem would be a bad thing.
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I can see your point IF we're talking about a driver grousing on the start grid...it's time to sack up and run what ya brung. However, sitting the garage on Monday morning it's part of the driver's job and a BIG part of his mechanics/engineers job to improve any weaknesses that may hinder the driver. Bully for you that you're comfortable driving a car with essentially no steering (90-180° of slop...really?) but I'd fire anyone who told me to just live with it and quit whining.
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Yup, some Honda guy will love them when we are ready to pass them on. In many ways the wheels exemplify the difficult decisions we face in this, the first stage of the project. Remember, we have no seat time and thus, no idea of what she is and what she wants to be. I routinely anthropomorphise my cars and feel that right now we're just getting her well enough to start talking back to us. As for the wheels... Nice wheels are expensive and although the money is not a primary issue, we didn't want to spend so much that we were locked in to keeping them. What if we did go to rear disks or a different diff set up altogether? At that point, wouldn't swapping to 5 lug hubs also make sense? Opens up a much wider range of wheel options, for sure. We're basically walking a tightrope. We need to spend the money and effort necessary to get decent feedback without spending so much in any particular area that we get locked in. We definitely view this as a multistage project with an exit point available at the end of stage one. I have no doubt that we can get her running well and looking good, the question is, will Sigfrid love it as much as I'm sure I will. If not, we should be able to sell and at least break even (not counting our time, of course). He and I have both drooled over the ArizonaZ suspension kits (and others of that ilk), the difference being that he might pull the trigger and I never would. Hell, for less than the cost of that kit we could buy a nicely sorted used Spec Miata that already has all the stuff we'd be trying to graft onto the Z. I am much more accepting of the nature of the car and the limitations inherent due to age. Hard metrics are trumped by patina and personality, in my book. Given our crumbling infrastructure, something as crude and tough as the Z may turn out to be the ultimate streetfighter after all.
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Sorry, no, car is in pieces ATM.
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Thanks for the tip...I'm used to VBulletin software which doesn't act on the redirect. It's doubtful we'll keep any of the stock brake system but it seemed logical and easier to start with what we had and the adapt as necessary. Same with the engine, I doubt it'll be in there for long. I was working up to that part but I guess we're there now. Once Sigfrid had decided that we were going to proceed with the original engine, the subject of carbs did arise. I had modified my 240z to a cable drive system with 2" SUs off a Jaguar and have owned over 20 British sports cars, so I'm quite comfortable with them. I ran triple sidedrafts for a while but the hit to gas mileage and the tuning complexity drove me away. Most importantly, carbs look the biz...certainly much better than the lumpen FI intake manifold. But there is no denying that injection is much better for a daily driver, we both agreed to keep it. Accordingly, we ordered up a new exhaust (header to tail), new injectors/pigtails, new spark plugs, waterpump and oil pump. And a bunch of gaskets and filters and sensors and hoses and belts. And I went to work. I should note that I am an inveterate and passionate rambler of junkyards. I revel in them at the hardware level...it is amazing the variety and quality of widgets/brackets/hardware found on cars. The junkyard is my Summit catalogue, with added rust and mud. I was going to the yard everyday and harvesting anything that looked like it might come in handy. The linchpin of the whole engine bay design was going to be the valve cover and the spark plug wires. The entire bay at this point was black (we had cleaned/rattlecanned the block when we bedlinered the bay) and it was time to bring in some bling. We considered polishing the cover and went so far as to grind off the (soon to be unused) mounting bosses and filling the holes (JB Weld) but decided we didn't like the shape enough to accentuate it as much as polishing would do, so the next obvious choice was to paint it red. Can't go wrong with red. As for the stock spark plug wires...well, I can't even. Fortunately, having dealt with this same aversion on my 240, I knew exactly what I was going to do. As I'm coming to grips with the "look" I want to achieve, we are researching other component options. I find a 90A internally regulated alternator from a Maxima that looks good, so we order it. Sigfrid reads that we can use the distributor from a 280ZX and the throttle body from a 240SX, I harvest both from the junkyard. I grab the electric fan and control module from a Volvo. I throw every idea I have at the bay, tinker around with them, discard most, modify others and finally, end up here:
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I like the way they look, "Goofy", I don't get.
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With a thoroughly inspected/cleaned/refurbished chassis, we had two things to decide. The first was the body- what would she look like? There was no question that the absurdly heavy bumpers were going to be deleted and Sigfrid had taken an immediate dislike to the sidemarker lamps and rain gutters over the doors. We had no grill or valence below the sugarscoops. The paint was so faded and blotchy that it was hard to get an overall feel for the shape of the car. Because a real paint job is so expensive- here in Denver you can figure about $4-5k for a single color respray- and since we could not do it ourselves, we decided that Plastdip was the way to go. Matte black. Through a family connection I got a hookup with a Plastidip garage (franchise) and went to check it out. It was very impressive and seemed perfect for Ratchet. If we did the bodywork/sanding and shot her in primer, he would dip the whole car for $400. This fit perfectly with the "Do no harm" philosophy we adopted...if at a later time we wanted real paint, the Plastidip could be easily peeled off and real paint prep could take place. Meanwhile, we would have a semi finished body that was at least one solid color and easily touched up. The thick coating and matte black color would naturally hide minor flaws, so our (Sigfrid's, actually) prep did not have to be perfect. The second area of discussion was the motor. Sigfrid and I have very different ideas about what a daily driver actually is. Simply put, Sigfrid is a speed freak and I am a Grandma. Our V-8 swapped FD would spin tires through third gear and he wasn't impressed. I was (and still am) pretty sure that the L28 wasn't gonna cut it for him and I had technical qualms about keeping it. I wanted to pull the motor/tranny immediately, figure out what we wanted to replace it with and carry on from there. Sigfrid insisted that he wasn't completely against the straight six and that we should get her running and then decide. I suspect that some of this was down to money- he and I had been spending (his) cash like drunken sailors and the car was no where near driveable yet. At this point it was the beginning of August and it seemed very possible to get her running before winter set in. I had a big roadtrip planned for the end of the month and needed some time to prep my daily (1990 Mazda RX-7) for the journey. I needed time to figure out how to approach the L28 and also wanted to prep for my biggest job, the total rewire of the chassis. This is what the engine bay looked like when we got her: There was no way any of this was going to stay, I was offended on every level. I could recognize the bones of the 240Z underneath all this nonsense and was appalled at how Datsun had just started layering complications (mostly emissions related) on top of the original layout. I made this picture my desktop and printed off a copy to carry...I wanted to see where I could go with it. I returned to work on Ratchet in mid September.
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Really, why do you say that? I've always been happy with the performance/durability of the HPS pads but am willing to consider a dissenting opinion. Anyway, my attention turned to the rear of the car and I basically replicated the work in the front on all the components on the back. Here's a shot of the stripped underside before powerwashing began: Note the wasp nest, the car was riddled with 'em. The rear bumper was one solid nest and others were wedged into almost every nook and cranny. Hint: Wasps HATE Purple Power. And high pressure water. Cleaned up the diff and refilled with RedLine oil. Had the fuel tank hot tanked and sealed, then coated with bedliner. All of the fuel hose/hardlines were replaced. I cleaned the sending unit(s) in the tank and they seem to read OK but time will tell. The fuel pump also seems to check out OK but that too is on the watch list. Rebuilt the struts and bushed all the articulating joints: The spindles pulled out by hand, absolutely no drama there, but assembling the knuckle back into the LCA took forever. Probably the most difficult part of the suspension work. Reassembled with the brakes also refreshed: We got the car with mismatched wheels and terrifyingly degraded tires, something needed to be done immediately. My Z had Panasports and I lobbied hard for those but Sigfrid found a smokin deal on some XXRs and tires from Tire Rack, so that's what we have. I hate them. That's OK, they are only temporary. These will become winter wheels/tires when we finally find a set we both like. The last part of this first stage of work was the interior. I stripped it bare, cleaned it up and bedlinered the whole thing: So, we're now about a month from purchase. The car has been stripped, chassis cleaned and bedlinered, suspension and brakes rebuilt and she's back on her feet. It's as solid a platform as could be hoped for, we found nothing to worry about. So, now what?, we think. Much discussion ensues.
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"First, do no harm" This was to be our watchword during the first go-round of the car. Basically, it meant no half-assed shadetree Bondo/pop rivet fixes. Either she got fixed properly or she had to go. Then we ran into a snag. Couldn't find any rust. Anywhere. Yes, there was some surface corrosion on the body panels (primarily the windshield valence) but the structure of the car was almost pristine. The pinchwelds were perfect as were the frame rails (passenger side rail had taken a hit from something but was dented, not rotted out). Doglegs, floorpans, wheel arches, rockers...all solid. Same with the body panels, under the sun fried paint (three different colors besides the original silver!) the metal was straight and essentially free of the expected dings and dents. Somehow, having done absolutely everything possible wrong, we had ended up with a superior platform with which to begin. We sat down and formulated a plan. Two weeks prior to the purchase, Sigfrid had undergone a second major back surgery and was still not very sprightly. So, I was going to handle the major mechanical work and he would work on the body (less lifting and bending and he claimed to enjoy it anyway, which I certainly do NOT). He was also near to departing on a three week family vacation, during which I'd be housesitting the pets and coincidentally, free to get medieval on the Z's ass. A blizzard of internet ordering happened and a week later, I began. Stripped the whole front end forward of the doors, leaving the engine/trans in place. Then powerwashed, scrubbed, scraped, powerwashed some more, washed some more. Then bedlinered everything. And a second coat. Then I went through with a tap and rethreaded the approximately 8 million threaded holes in the bay/wheelwells. I may have missed a few. About the factory undercoat. Ours seemed quite randomly applied but what was there (most of it, actually), was really on there. Since we are not equipped to do a bare metal restoration I figured that having survived for 36 years and then my recent attempts to blow it off with water, scrapers, wire wheels and the like, it had earned its right to stay. I linered right over it. Then the mechanical work began. With no real experience in this particular car, we decided to freshen rather than upgrade the suspension. She got Monroe inserts, Eibach springs, a complete Energy Suspension kit, new ball joints/tie rod ends, boots...the whole shebang. Everything was cleaned and painted satin black. We skimmed the front rotors (and rear drums), rebuilt the calipers, replaced the hoses and fitted Hawk HPS pads. This all took about a week.
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Ratchet started life as a 1977 280z. Where she ends up has yet to be determined. Ratchet belongs to my friend Sigfrid, whom I met four years ago as he embarked on a V-8 swap into a FD Mazda RX-7. We labored for three years, constantly battling the fact that the chassis was trash, before he sold it on. We enjoyed the process though and when circumstances allowed, we started talking about a new project. I was fixated on a Z- specifically a pre-'75 Z- almost from the beginning. This was primarily due to Colorado emission laws; any car older than 1975 is exempt, anything newer is not. There is no "25 year" law anymore. The simplicity of the era also appealed. We knew we were going to alter the car quite a bit and the less clutter to work around, the better. Sigfrid however is much more capricious and for weeks I was swamped with forwarded craigslist ads ranging from Lotus to Evo. Slowly we began to converge on Z's though...it was inevitable. We began to seriously discuss a couple of promising examples when suddenly one Friday night, he emails and says he's bought a car and we're picking it up the next morning. I was a bit taken aback. Especially when I saw it the next day. We work out of Sigfrid's home garage and had decided that mechanical work of any level was doable but bodywork was not. Both of us had previously owned early Z's and were well aware of the common rust issues. We wanted as good a body/paint combo as we could find and this car was...awful. Seemingly. The seller is pulling the old "I have another buyer coming in a half hour, so make up your mind" routine. I'm urging "walk", Sigfrid buys the car. We don't even know if it starts. "Course it does" says the seller and sure enough it does. Sigfrid hops in and I follow him the eight miles to his house. He actually drove it. We had spent maybe ten minutes with the car before the sale, another twenty minutes driving over and now, for the first time I finally could inspect what we had. Yikes! How this car started and drove was a miracle beyond understanding. The spark plugs were in finger tight, every vacuum hose and rubber boot was cracked/broken, three of the wheels were missing lug nuts and the tires were dry rotted (one tire, already removed from the car, exploded all by itself two days later). We decided the car really wanted to get to a new home and dug deep to make it happen. Trying to capitalize on all the mistakes we'd made on the FD and utilize the experience gained, we'd decided that the very first thing we'd do was strip her bare and examine the chassis in detail. She was up on stands with the wheels off (lug nuts finger tight, too!) within the hour. And the love affair began.
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(75 280) Valve Cover Breather Hose replacement
clocker replied to Zmanj87's topic in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
There is no plastic grommet. The threaded metal fitting screws directly into the valve cover. -
(75 280) Valve Cover Breather Hose replacement
clocker replied to Zmanj87's topic in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
No, it is definitely threaded. -
(75 280) Valve Cover Breather Hose replacement
clocker replied to Zmanj87's topic in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
There is supposed to be a "flame arrestor" in that hose but I've never figured out where the flame was supposed to be coming from. -
Toying with the idea of starting a 240z restoration but...
clocker replied to NickA's topic in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
This whole "drives like a turd" thing has been too narrowly defined as "power", and possible lack thereof. A nice stock Z has more than enough hp, torque and handling to provide plenty of entertainment. More pertinent to the spirit of Nick's original question I think, would be a discussion of the experience rather than the numbers. By most metrics, his "perfect" car is in every way superior to the 240 and on paper at least, he'd be crazy NOT to be disappointed. The very existence of this forum proves that the car must be viewed through a different/wider lens. Otherwise, we'd all be hypocrites for driving anything but an Ariel Atom. Changing from the 300ZX to the 240Z is going to feel like stepping back in time. The ergonomics, such as they are- are stone age crude. There is little effort made to hide the fact that all the spinny, heated, greasy bits are only a thin sheetmetal thickness away from your body. The Z is "mechanical" in all senses of the word, the ZX is not. Whether you'd consider the car a turd or not would seem to be more closely tied to your preference as to how intrusive you want your car to be. The Z demands/rewards more involvement. -
(75 280) Valve Cover Breather Hose replacement
clocker replied to Zmanj87's topic in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
How you deal with this system depends entirely on whether you have carbs or FI. With carbs you can do pretty much anything you want- put filters on the valve cover and block, put catchcans, run it stock...the carbs don't much care. EFI is another matter. If you look at the FSM, you'll see the valve cover is an intake, not a breather. It is fed air sourced after the AFM and before the throttle plate. This air is pumped through the crankcase and reintroduced into the intake through the PCV valve under the intake manifold. This is important because the computer is aware of this extra air coming into the intake...it's already been seen by the AFM. Putting a filter on the valve cover is just a giant vac leak into the intake. In theory, at least. I've seen pics of injected cars with just a filter, with the valve cover plumbed direct into the intake manifold, with catch cans, etc., and the odd thing is that they all claim to work great. Perhaps our computers are just too crude to know? -
(75 280) Valve Cover Breather Hose replacement
clocker replied to Zmanj87's topic in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
That ain't no PCV valve, it's just a hose fitting. I believe the factory put a sealant on the threads, screwed it down to the proper position and let it cure. -
I haven't gotten that far yet (our car currently has no windshield), so I'm not sure.
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New- Please answer some of my questions
clocker replied to KaiEstrada's topic in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
Sorry, not buying the "either A or B" limitation to the discussion. In the original post the OP stated he had a support network of friends/shops and mechanical work would not be an issue. The work I mentioned before can all easily be broken down into one or two day chunks (depending a lot on how much clean up/painting you want to do), so the car does not have to become a long term garage queen during the process. I was also specific about brakes and suspension first because they are very straightforward, mechanical systems. Tab A into Slot B type of stuff, very obvious and no "diagnosing" to worry about. Obviously, any mechanical work on an older car is fraught with peril but with these two systems it is likely to manifest in simple mechanical issues, like frozen bolts or seized spindles...irritating but not showstoppers. Your most effective tool in this process- both pre and post purchase- is knowledge. Thing is, you haven't the experience to know what to ask nor an actual car to ask about. I'd go memorize the build thread section. You'll see every variation of what can be wrong and how it was dealt with. You'll see how lots of smart, talented people have loved on their cars and you can steal all their ideas. Then, start looking at cars. Note the plural, you need to see as many Z's as possible, even if you're just scanning eBay. Buying a car just because it's the only one within a convenient radius is usually not the best idea. YMMV. -
Thanks, an optimised OEM look was what I wanted. The banjos are a particular fetish of mine, way more work than plumbing fittings but I like 'em. After grinding down the unused bosses on the valve cover, I bored out the stock breather hole (I never did figure out what thread it was...) and pressed in a plug tapped for 16mm x 1.5. The fitting on the cover was part of a power steering hose from an Audi, the one on the fuel rail is from a Jaguar. The chrome pipe is plumbing stuff from Ace. I machined spacers/connectors from delrin to connect the tubes. The spark plug wires run through it. The distributor is a 280ZX part and the wires will go to it as normal, I just haven't finished making them yet. The throttle body is a 60mm 240SX cable operated unit. I made the spacer from delrin and incorporated the throttle cable stop/bracket into the design. The cable is a shortened Toyota part. I put a bung on the intake mouth of the throttle body and the valve cover is fed from there. It's basically a simplified version of the original system. Because I already had the feed to the valve cover handled, I didn't need a bung on the rubber AFM coupler, so this one is a plain jane replacement from a SAAB. The AFM is from a S5 Mazda RX-7. The brake booster/MC are 280ZX parts. I was unaware of the oddball booster/firewall bolt pattern and my normal preferred upgrades don't work, so this was the next best option. I'll probably build an unboosted twin MC system after we get her running and sorted out. Now that most of the major components are in place, wiring will begin.
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New- Please answer some of my questions
clocker replied to KaiEstrada's topic in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
I'm going to be a wee bit contrarian here and say that daily driving a Z is no big deal. I've never had the luxury of two cars, if I wanted something cool, it was going to be the primary/only vehicle. The trick to this I think is to be very proactive when you first get the car. I start with the brakes and go full scorched earth on 'em- replace hoses, master and slave cylinders, rebuild calipers, replace rotors/drums, new pads. Unless something is obviously brand new, it gets replaced. This process does two things...you know she will stop and it gets you up close and personal with all four corners of the car. If you haven't closely inspected the chassis yet, working on the brakes will get you near the usual trouble spots (rear wheel arches, doglegs, rockers). Assuming you are lucky (or were careful in your pre-sale inspection) and rust is not going to be an issue, the suspension is next. Again, go full court press and replace the whole thing, bushes, struts, springs. Depending on your component choices (strut inserts, brake pads, springs) both these procedures are dirt cheap compared to a newer car...figure about $750 for parts. Naturally, during all this bolting/unbolting, you are either replacing the hardware or at the very least, running a tap/die over them and using lots of anti-seize. You will appreciate that a few years down the road. The electrical is somewhat quirky but at least it's very simple, especially the carbed cars. I like electrical work and usually rewire the entire car to my liking but you can live with the stock setup assuming it hasn't been butchered or suffered a catastrophic melt down. At any rate, clean every bulb socket (little wire brushes for this are readily available) and use dielectric grease. Same for all the connectors on the harness, clean/grease everything that gets unplugged. Basically, you want to preemptively attack the primary systems before they bite you in the ass. Assume that basic maintenance has been ignored and you're just bringing it back up to snuff. Once done, you shouldn't have to go back and keep working on her- Japanese reliability was a big selling point when the Z was new and my car never let me down. As to which model to get, personally I'd go with the car with the best body/paint, regardless of year. IMO, rust repair and paint are far more onerous than the mechanical work...but that just might be me. If you don't like FI, you can carb a 280 and vice versa. If the later style bumpers offend you, you can retrofit early bumpers (with some work). Objectively speaking, I think older cars are much MORE reliable than new stuff, primarily because there is so much less that can go wrong. -
Key is getting really hard to turn
clocker replied to FreddyZ78's topic in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
There are two parts to the ignition switch- the lock cylinder and the electrical switch the cylinder operates. Chances are good it's the lock itself. Best case scenario: Remove the ignition key cylinder and the door/hatch cylinders and have them rebuilt/rekeyed to match. Any locksmith can do this. Worst case scanario: Remove the ignition cylinder and try flooding it with a lubricant, see if it frees up. The first option is inevitably where you're going to end up but you might buy some time with option two first. -
Toying with the idea of starting a 240z restoration but...
clocker replied to NickA's topic in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
Much like the British sports cars I alluded to before, the Z provides the sensation of speed far beyond it's actual performance. "Peppy" would be a very accurate description actually, they are quick but not particularly fast. You've got a goodly amount of low end torque ( I almost never used 1st gear in the 5-speed) in a fairly light chassis, so yeah, peppy would be accurate. The suspension is crude and very heavy, wheel choices are limited as are rubber options. Brakes are fine for regular use, the electrics are weirdly complicated but fortunately limited (no power windows, etc.). The interior is very simple, much less sound/weather proofing than we're used to, so they're noisy. Ergonomics are a personal decision. -
Toying with the idea of starting a 240z restoration but...
clocker replied to NickA's topic in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
How would you feel about driving a MGB? The B and the Z are essentially of the same era and level of sophistication and compared to your preferred cars, are way cruder. You may find them charming, you may find them unbearable. I moved from a '71 240z directly into a '90 RX-7 and was shocked...the Mazda seemed like a Cadillac after the harsher, noisier Datsun. After eight years, I'm now working on a 280z and am very interested to see what I think of it when it's done.