Dave240Z

Yes I did leave out the condenser in my post; I figured it was already long enough. The condenser's (basically a big capacitor) job is indeed to suppress some of that current rushing to the points, in an effort to minimize an early point demise as you call it. It does this by forcing current back through the coil, thus helping minimize the inrushing current to the points. Of course this happens during milliseconds after each cylinder sparks. I'd love to be able to tell everyone exactly what does and doesn't work regarding ballast resistors and aftermarket electronic ignitions, but my experience is limited to the MSD and pertronix and I am just a shadetree mechanic like everyone else so I'm no expert. I will share what I know though, based on my experience, just make sure you have some salt nearby. I was able to run my first pertronix for over 2 years and 20K miles with no ballast resistor and MSD blaster coil until it suddenly died. Confident the problem was just a blown pertronix after several years of service, I bought a replacement. However, the new pertronix replacement lasted just long enough to get the car warmed up and down the road to get gas before it died. Nothing else was changed. Of note is that the older pertronix "sensor" housing was much larger than the replacement. I guess this larger size meant the older set was more resistant to overvoltage than the newer one, hence the reason it lasted quite a bit longer. Nevertheless, after getting a third pertronix replacement and after consultations with some electrical engineers and books I realized that the ballast resistor was worth giving a shot. After adding it back in, I had no problems whatsoever. Since then, I have added the MSD 6AL into the ignition and have removed the ballast resistor once again, since the pertronix is now isolated from the coil by the MSD 6AL and not subject to massive current inrush. If you download the msd 6 series ignition system installation instructions (http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/6series.pdf) you'll notice that the very first ignition schematic on page 10, which references a basic points system has a note that indicates the ballast resistor is no longer necessary. This is due to the reason I mentioned above. Based on all this, my advice regarding aftermarket point replacements (i.e. Pertronix, Accel, etc..) would be to use the ballast resistor inline with those units. If, however, you have installed an aftermarket ignition system (MSD 6AL, Accel, etc...) then the ballast resistor is likely unecessary since the ignition system is now controlling the coil, effectively isolating the "point replacements" from the rest of the ignition circuit.

That writeup is close, but a bit vague regarding the principle of operation. There are a few more things to consider about ballast resistors before you can say they are not necessary. An important point of consideration regarding ballast resistors is that they not only control the voltage sent to the coil, but they also control the current. Current is what is actually doing the "work" with electricity (and potentially the harm), voltage is merely representative of the potential. But, since the two are intertwined (V=I/R) altering one inevitably affects the other, but the widespread belief that all a ballast resistor does is alter voltage still exists. Funny, considering that a coil operates on the principle of forcing current through a coiled wire and the subsequent collapse of a magenetic field. Keep in mind, altering the voltage (and current) present at the coil was important when coils could overheat when exposed to voltage for a long period of time, such as when the engine is operating in it's low-speed range. Remember that time is relative and low engine speeds (~3000rpm and lower) mean that the voltage supplied to the coil has more duration since the points are left open longer due to the low engine speed. Of course we're only talking milliseconds but that is quite a time period in electronics. Nevertheless, this can be enough to overheat and effectively destroy a coil. As we all know, the ballast resistor effectively counters this by altering the amount of voltage (and hence current) sent to the coil. It does this because it is resistor (Duh!), but another aspect that is relatively unknown is that it is also temperature sensitive. At low speeds (remember long voltage duration) the ballast resistor heats up, and as it heats up it increases it's resistance thus limiting the amount of voltage sent to the coil to prevent it from burning up when it's protection is most critical. At higher engine speeds, the resistor is not exposed to long voltage durations and as such does not heat up as much. As with all electronics, reduced heat = reduced resistance and therefore the full or near full voltage potential is allowed to pass on to the coil unaltered. You may be asking, OK fine but what does this have to do with points? Well, the points are responsible for "breaking" (hence the name) the primary circuit of the coil to induce collapse of the magnetic field to produce the high voltage output for the sparkplugs. Since the amount of voltage the points must "break" is dependent on the amount voltage present in the coil primary windings which is dependent on the amount of current sent to the coil, they are dependent on the ballast resistor as well. Also, since the ballast resistor is temperature sensitive and sends full voltage to the coil at high rpms, the points also see higher voltage for longer durations as well. This is part of the reason as to why points used to fail so often in race cars. It wasn't just that the metal lost it's spring (although point float is a real problem) but also because of the higher voltage potential and subsequent burning of the points. Something else to consider.... My current ignition system consists of a MSD-6AL, MSD Blaster coil and Pertronix igniter. Originally, I just had the MSD blaster and pertronix installed without a ballast resistor. This worked fine for a while, but then one day the pertronix fried. I thought it may have just been defective or something, and confident that I had correctly diagnosed the problem, I bought another and replaced it. Voila, the car ran fine again. However, on my way to get gas, the new pertronix died. Since then, I did some research (as you can see ) and added the ballast resistor back into the circuit (only for the pertronix since the coil is regulated by the MSD unit) and replaced the pertronix again. 6 months later, no problem. It turns out the pertronix was seeing far too much current due to the high output coil and no ballast resistor. The little unit would work fine for a while, until it heated up, which in turn increased it's resistance, which in turn heated it up which eventually burned it out. So what is the moral of this long story (if you've read this far)..don't discount the benefits of the ballast resitor right away; It just might be useful to you.

I believe that is because the regulations only allow for exemption from the smog checks, but don't apply when the car is sold. Anytime any pollution controlled vehicle (currently 1965 and newer I believe) is sold, it must pass a smog test. Once passed, however, it does not need be smogged again unless you are pulled over and cited for not having the smog equipment installed at which time you will have to get a smog check by the state smog referee.

It appears, that the senator responsible for the drafting of SB 708 was inundated with phone calls, e-mails and letters about his proposed changes to the CA smog program. These individuals and organizations seem to have had an effect. Keep your fingers crossed. ******** FLOREZ REVERSES ON CLASSIC CAR SMOG RULES By VIC POLLARD, Californian Sacramento Bureau e-mail: vpollard@bakersfield.com Tuesday April 15, 2003, 10:56:17 PM SACRAMENTO -- With Jay Leno and the rest of California's classic car buffs on his case, State Sen. Dean Florez has dropped his proposal to require smog checks for cars as old as 1958 models. Leno, "The Tonight Show" host who has a large collection of vintage autos, personally called Florez's office to lobby against the plan. The lawmaker was also inundated with letters, e-mails and phone calls from many other members of the highly organized hobby car community. One of their tools was a cartoon depicting Florez in his state-leased SUV chasing classic cars out of California. Florez was forced to back down on the bill, one in a package of 10 bills aimed at cleaning up the air in the Central Valley, before it even got its first legislative hearing. The bill, SB 708, isn't dead, but it has been amended to crack down on cars that emit visible smoke. Originally, it called for requiring regular smog checks and repairs for cars up to 45 model years old. If in effect this year, it would apply to cars made in 1958 or later. That would have replaced the state's existing exemption for cars older than 30 model years, which this year is 1973. "Given all the fights we have on all the other air pollution bills," Florez said, "it wasn't going to help to push that one." He said classic car fans made a convincing argument that most of the oldest cars on the road, while they may be some of the worst polluters, aren't usually driven to and from work daily. "We told the classic car folks that we're going to continue to talk to them," Florez continued, "but that was just too much of a detailed type of proposal." Florez's legislative aide, Michael Rubio, said Leno called after reading a newspaper article about the smog bills. " He said he wanted to know what the deal was with (SB) 708," Rubio said. "Several days later, he called back and said, 'You've got me thinking now.' And I said 'Can I start at the beginning?'" He said Leno listened carefully and discussed his thoughts on the smog problem and the bill at some length, urging Florez to carefully distinguish between older cars that are driven for basic transportation and those that are merely exhibited most of the time. Other problems, he said, are the difficulty of getting repair parts for older cars and the fact that emission controls were not mandated on cars until the late 1960s. The same arguments were made by the classic car community's chief lobbyist, Steve McDonald of the Special Equipment Marketing Association, a trade group of manufacturers, retailers, publishers and restorers. "Obviously we're thrilled that the senator has agreed to modify the legislation and refocus the target on what we believe is a more effective one, that being smoking vehicles," McDonald said. So are hobbyists like Jan VanderPool of Bakersfield, who, with his fiancÈe, owns three vintage Ford Mustangs. " That's definitely a big relief to me," he said. VanderPool said it took years and a lot of effort to get the rolling exemption from smog checks for cars that are more than 30 years old enacted in 1997. Florez and his staff appeared surprised, if not shellshocked, at the size and aggressiveness of the lobbying campaign against the smog check proposal. But it was no surprise to VanderPool, who has been through similar drills before when legislation was proposed that helped or hurt car hobbyists. "A lot of us have had to get pretty political," he said. "We've had to get active and kind of watch our backs." **********

It does. The ECU basically shuts half the engine off when cruising. Mercedes does the same thing with it's V12 used in the S600. Forget having NOS on tap, I'd rather have another 8 cylinders!

....a Republican president would have a higher approval rating than the Democratic Governor, in the PRK (People's Republic of Kalifornia)? articles here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/04/15/MN121741.DTL http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/04/16/MN298819.DTL

Point taken. I was typing fast and that was the first word to come into my mind and is a bit inappropriate. Glad you could read through it for what I was really trying to say though.

Amen to that Brutha!! California is full of them, so much so, that I'm thinking of bailing.....tired of fighting it!!! G.Damn liberal, left wing, bleeding heart ___>>>>>!!!! Tim Not all of us are bleeding liberals, take some solace in that. Rather than leave, I intend to stay and make my disagreement with them known. If possible, I will also start running for political office to add some balance to this state when it comes to poltics. The day will come when CA will swing back the other way. This is too great a state to waste it's potential on a bunch of bloated welfare programs for non-citizens and continually penalize the working people of this state so more money can be wasted on ill-conceived and exectued schemes for the sake of the people. BTW, have you seen this? http://www.recallgraydavis.com/

Copied from a post he (Cheesefrog) made on a corvette forum.....

Well, he is just an assistant professor of Anthropology. But I agree, it's quite amazing to believe that someone who is immersed in higher learning can make such comments. If I went to school there, I'd be organizing a protest against this jerkoff, citing that his political views have no place in Anthropological studies and if he wants to make such comments, do so on his own time and place, not the University. It continues to amaze me that the very people who bask in the freedom of this country ridicule said country and their fellow citizens for the methods needed to provide it. I really would like to see how happy this guy would be if we just dropped him off in Mogadishu and let him fend for himself.

Interesting read from foxnews http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82619,00.html Excerpt here... Wishing for 'a Million Mogadishus' A professor at Columbia University in New York is publicly calling for the massacre of American troops in Iraq and praising as heroes those who kill them, reports Newsday. In a six-hour "teach-in" at the college, Nicholas De Genova, an assistant professor of anthropology, said he would like to see "a million Mogadishus" -- a reference to the city in Somalia where 18 American soldiers were ambushed and killed in 1993. "The only true heroes are those who find ways that help defeat the U.S. military," De Genova told the audience of about 3,000. "I personally would like to see a million Mogadishus." The crowd was pretty much silent in response to the remark, but cheered loudly when he later said, "If we really believe that this war is criminal ... then we have to believe in the victory of the Iraqi people and the defeat of the U.S. war machine." A group of Ohio college students who wanted to hang U.S. flags on a school building were told they couldn't because the flags might hurt the feelings of anti-war folks, reports the Ohio News Network. Melissa Paxton, a student at Muskingum College in New Concord, Ohio, wanted to show support for the troops. "I was raised to be a firm believer in my country and you know, support what's going on," she said. But Vice President of the Administration Ransom Clark feared the flags could cause problems. "I was afraid that a major display of American flags would represent a signal if done by the college to those people who are opposing the war that we're coming down against them," he said. The students say they will hang flags outside of their homes instead. End of excerpt.... All hope is not lost though, I had a few teachers who were no so leftist in their views. A few mind you, not a lot. In fact, one of my favorites was a Vietnam Navy vet and retired career military officer. Upon his military retirement, he became a professor. He wore his units' hat to school each day and didn't put up with leftists crap. He would always say that the rights and privelages of these students are a direct result of the sacrifice that he and many others who have fought and died for. Not showing respect for them, the flag or their country all of which are interrelated is in his mind disgusting. He would also offer those with very anti-american/establishment/gov't/etc...a plane ticket to anywhere they wanted to go in the world since the US was so "wicked". The only catch was that it was a one way ticket. Nobody ever took him up on the offer, but it did shut some people up.

Although 99% of these Honda import guys are nothing more than bench racers, there are those people that fall into the remaining 1% that actually do know what they are doing. Back in 1996 I actually had a 1991 Civic Hatch DX. I swapped the pathetic 1.5L for a B18 from a 1993 Acura. It didn't have Vtec but I did have some upgrades including Gude cams, DC headers, exhaust etc....Keep in mind this was 6+ years ago and at the time those were good parts. Practically no turbo kits really existed and I had to splice all the wiring myself using nothing but patience and factory Honda manuals. I also fabricated some engine mounts and welded them. At the time, I was one of the few people that had done this swap due to the complexity and fact there were no "bolt-in" kits available. All said and done, the car ran a 14.3 1/4 on BFG Euro T/As. Not bad, but not exactly slow either. Some better tires would have certainly helped with the times but I ended up crashing the car before I had the chance. But that is when I got my 240Z which I had lusted after for years so it all worked out just fine. Case in point that not all Hondas are r*cers.... This was recently posted on the vwvortex and it's relevant so enjoy... video of it against a modified viper: http://www.cheesefrog.com/frog/cheezevsal.mpg video of the same viper doing 9.63 1/4 mile: http://www.house-of-power.com/images/albert.mpg The Civic is running a dump tube on his turbo so the exhaust looks complete stock from the rear. Very slick. Here's a pic of the car....

I've been happy with my Rebello 3.0L so far. I have yet to dyno it but I can tell you with the utmost certainty that it is the most powerful n/a L6 engine I have ever driven or had the pleasure of riding behind. There are other more powerful engines, but I have been very happy with the Rebello. Both Dave and Rick are easy to talk to and have tons of experience to boot. This isn't to say Rebello is the only game in town though. Sunbelt has provven itself to be quite good at what it does as well. One thing to consider though, neither one is what I would call cheap. I personally have not had the best experience when dealing with Top End. The guy (Steve) came off as a bit arrogant and rude. This is only in dealing with parts though, so I can't speak for their ability with engine building. But, my experience with their customer service would make me very wary of getting involved with them at an engine building level. Hope this helps....

I feel the need to step in here just a bit. This is a great thread BTW, I am really enjoying it. Let's keep it civil though so it doesn't get locked. That said, I have a few comments.... Response to #1 I agree for the most part but we live in a Republic, not a democracy. In a true democracy you would be able to vote on every single thing. In the US, we have elected certain people in the hopes that they hold our best views and interests in mind and will voice them when necessary. Of course this isn't perfect, but it is practical. As having the citizens vote on every single action of Gov't will cause the Gov't to slowdown to a crawl, things would take even longer than they do today if you could imagine that!! Response to #2, #3 Agreed. Response to #4 I disagree a bit here. True, being a citizen is certainly part of the equation, but that alone does not make you "American". There are many people whom I would consider very "UnAmerican" even though they are certainly citizens. Being American is not a right, it's a privilege. Response to #5, #6 I see what you are saying, but it's a bit off target. We, as citizens, are not completely in charge. Did you vote to go to war? I know I didn't since there was never a vote by the "people". The fact that we can't simply remove "bad apples" on a whim is also very true. The system simply doesn't allow that kind of control for the people. It relies more on your ability to pick an individual who represents your views and beliefs. The problem is that 100% of the time, you will never find someone who holds 100% of the same views and beliefs as you. Hence there is disagreement, but also why the system is setup for you to vote for more than one person to represent your views. It really boils down to a balance of power. The people don't have all the power, but neither does the Gov't, or one individual. Something else to consider, there is a big difference between voicing your opinion and causing trouble. The protestors are supposedly doing what they are doing to get attention; that they have succeeded in. However, their actions are not constructive to solving the bigger situation at hand. Civil disobedience simply causes more problems without fixing the ones that already exist. Why peaceful protests or rallies can't be done without sitting in crosswalks I have no idea. Most of these people appear to simply be anarchists anyway so it really doesn't surprise me that they are selective in the laws they choose to obey. Response to #7, #8 So how do we draw a distinction between "absolutely necessary" and "should be done"? If we don't do something that should be done, doesn't that eventually make it necessary? I don't think there are many people out there, both regular citizens and those in the armed forces, who really believe war is good. However, most also recognize that these rights and privileges which we all enjoy today in the comfort of our homes is paid for in the blood of many an American. Someone has to defend those rights, sometimes it is with words, other times it is with weapons. Saddam Hussein may not be capable of launching a direct assault on American soil, heck there aren't many nations that could even try but that doesn't mean he is not a threat to you and I. To believe otherwise is akin to believing that Hitler was not a threat to the US. Over 6M people died because the world was not "preemptive" in stopping him. By the time we did, it was late in the game and we (the world) paid a heavy price for our inaction earlier on. Think about it. Saddam has links to supporting terrorism (either outright or secretly), committing numerous crimes against humanity including his own people, is a constant threat to his neighbors (Iran, Kuwait, Israel,etc...) and has downright lied about everything. He is, in my opinion, the modern day Stalin. And that is certainly not a compliment and is certainly a threat to both my way of life as an American and those of other people in the world and for that reason I believe it is important to strip him of his power and truly let the people of Iraq choose their own leader. If you are at all familiar with Iraq history, you would know that Hussein was never elected. He took his position by brute force alone, and it seems he will lose it by brute force also although that force will come at the hand of a heavy American fist (assisted by the Brits of course) As the old saying goes...."Evil triumphs when good men do nothing." I for one, am proud to be a citizen in a nation where we are not doing nothing. (sorry for the double negative) Response to #9 I used to work for a French company (Schlumberger) and I can tell you without doubt that the French are truly a different people. Not ethnically or anything, but with regard to politics they are quite socialist in their views. Most believe the gov't should supply most everything and control most everything. Even the price of a baguette is regulated by the gov't if you can believe that. My opinion on the French is that they will always act in their best interest, not that of someone else. Unless there is something to be gained, they usually want nothing to do with it. Granted, this is viewing things from my American perspective, but then again...it's the only perspective I've got.

It's not American Muscle, but it is my *other* car. BTW, those are some nice looking machines. That '62 Imp has to be my favorite. [homer voice]mmmmmm......409 w/4 speed!...mmmmmm[/homer voice]

Interesting link about the protesters. http://homepage.mac.com/evancm/brain-terminal/peace-protest-hq.wmv I won't comment on anything else other than to say I'm glad to see there are a lot of fellow American's who feel the same way I do. Whatever your stance is on this, I think we can all agree that this should be over as soon as possible.

I have the MSD and Pertronix setup installed and have had no issues. You do need the newer manual though, which explains how to hook them up. The Pertronix specific instructions are near the end of the document. Here's a link for you... http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/6series.pdf