kolonelklink87

Before you get to carried away with the details to put the response simply it can't be done so far as i know. L28E ECU will not compensated adeqautely for extra air flow nor are the injectors and other fueling components up to the task. It's definately not a bolt on option without extensive Fabrication work. There are two possible outcome if you can connect it up. 1. engine wont run at all. 2. Engine runs super lean and detonates massively as soon as you run it hard - destroying all your hard work. This is not the appropriate place to ask these questions, do some reading around, check the FAQ sections, run some searches... odds are someone has done something similar to what you want to do and has posted thier procedure. welcome to hybridz. -pete

Maybe use a thermo relay (like with electric fans) post thermostat... connected to a solenoid actuated valve closing mechanism... ? or go the opposite way and have a spring loaded closed valve which is opened by a solenoid that can be tiggered by an in-car switch? like an *electric choke* lol or get tricky mechanically and use positive cooling system pressure(like in the radiator when it warms up) to close the valve?

I dont think it has to be terribly thick - I certainly not an expert but it seems to be effective in stoppping the radiating heat in a couple of ways - works as a physical barrier for air rising off the exaust. - Reflects infra red (i've heard this but im extremely dubious as to the amount of energy thats actually passed this way) - absorbs heat from one side and redistributes by emmiting heat from both sides (probably closer to the "reflecting heat" effect) I imagine if you painted the manifold side with a low heat conductance surface primer or accryllic powder coat etc etc you might get an even greater heat transmission back towards the exaust and away from the manifold. maybe you could keep the manifold virgin by connecting a sheild via the common exaust/intake manifold head studs? I don't know if that would work with extractors but probs with the stock sheild.... heck you could probs use the stock zx efi sheild, i have one lying around somewhere...? I'd agree the stock water heater is probably the place to start... if you dont want to lose it you could put a restrictor upstream to minimise hot water flow... if the line ran across from pre-thermostat to post thermostat I image a highly resticted line would only flow significantly when thermostat is closed... ...or i could be completely wrong:mrgreen:

is there stock heat sheilding on the bottom of that manifold? I've still got some alloy lying around if you want we can cut some up for the job? the heat question could maybe be answered with a themometer gun thingo... michael has one... let me know and when you're east-ways next i'll get it off him.

I guess there's a bit of an unspoken challenge as to who can get the most out of the L-series block - torque, drivability, raw HP etc etc. all different aspects. Plently of ppl have put more money in modifiying L-series heads alone than a RB transplant would cost combined. MAG - i heard you say elsewhere than you aren't posting an ongoing build due to criticisms... excuse the french but F%#k that. We demand updates! -pete

the injector noise can be quite loud. It good news for you if thats the issue - injectors are a nothing part these days. the screwdriver trick is good advice... when you think you've isolated it try diconnnecting the connector to the suspect injector. if the sound goes away, thats your culprit. -pete *edit* i wouldn't bother with FI cleaner, just get a new injector... i've got tonnes lying round, many people do so just put up a post on wanted etc.

I don't see spark advance in being a magic bullet for power production - more advance does not equal more power. Greater advance is a band-aid effort for poor head design (i think i may have quoted someone there?). Greater advance is required to compensate for slow flamefront travel due to low swirl and gas velocity within the combustion chamber during the compression stroke. this is not news. There is of course a point where ignition timing is optimised to capture as much useful mechanical energy during the power stroke and minimal mechanical energy during the compression and exaust strokes - you can see that advancing beyound this point moves your combustion phase too much into the compression stroke. Thus to make ideal power you ride the "knife-edge" between optimal mechanical(gas expansion) energy in both strokes. To counteract this effectively employing modern EFI will help - greater control of AF is well beyond the capability of carb systems. Additionally, adding fuel has the added benifit of lowering the gas temperature inside the cylinders as the entropy of the intake gas is employed in vapourisation of fuel (yes fuel absorbs heat). this will work to a point. However, ideally the better solution would be to use better quality head work on combustion chambers to improve the swirl in the chamber without adding extra temperature - big power/big boost means big dollars and big headwork. Have you considered ceramic coated chambers?- these would also assist with reducing heat dissapation into the cylinder head and the thus #5 problem. Additionally, while you're at it you might want to consider some port work? greater manifold boost is required to push more air through tiny ports esp at higher RPM. Your turbo works harder and pushes less air when working against a high pressure differential - also contributing to exaust back pressure. If you increase the volumetric efficiency (filling) of you cylinders you negate the need for higher "boost" while still pushing the same amount of air more efficiently. remember - more boost in the manifold doesnt translate directly to more air in the cylinders. The greater component of laminar flow also means less gass is in contact wiht the port walls for less time - decreasing the temperature of the gas as it enters the cylinder (some people explore ceramic coating ports as well... i dont know about this one). I think your explaintion of knock is perhaps a bit oversimplified... there are numerous factors relating to how the gases behave wihtin the combustion chamber and the formation of flame fronts which will result in "knock". Additionally, if hot-spots are your concern perhaps preignition may also be a contributory. Cooling would be a massive help in this instance - as would the removal of hot spot susceptable regions in the head, smoothing of areas of high friction and surface area which become flash-points. Yes a lean-burn does so faster, however it is also more susceptable to preignition and irregular flame front formation than a richer slow-burn. The point i guess that i'm trying to convey here is that there are numerous factors at play when trying to control ideal combustion. I'm sure you can tell I have some reservations about running massive boost on a stocker engine. Yes the L is versatile and impressive, but it isnt magical. A conglomerate of factors are contributing here and I think if you work at each little bit you may find the results more effective than a single magic bullet solution. However, It appears that you have already decided how and what you want to do before asking advice (that being the case why not just read the sticky and not ask?). There is another thread titled "the battle against detonation" where some of these factors are discussed at length (among many other threads). As well theres that old saying that always pops up around here about cheap vs power vs relability (pick two!). Best of luck Pete

you need to re-read the rules and edit your post before it gets removed... check the FAQ and read the stickies. Everyone has thier own take and approach for best results. Read around, see what takes your interest and what fits into your goals. Good luck -pete

...lol... also, i'm not fully up to spec on these engines but isnt the compression on an l24E something like 9:1??? if that is the case, no matter your cooling, detonation control is going to be an issue. it seems like you're force-feeding this thing a diet of steak, eggs and steriods... cardiac arrest?:icon15:

put an LCD display for megasquirt

My point was that at this point you're assuming that your intake temps are fine because you're running an intercooler... however, without an IAT am i correct in thinking you don't have numerical confirmation of this assumption? because intercooling is not done *right* before the air enters the cylinders you can of course pick up heat prior to this point (which is where your engine cooling comes into play). The cooler your intake piping, manifold, runners and head the less the preheating on the air will be and the cooler it will be by the end of the compression stroke. This may not be necessary depending on what your IAT/MAT tells(i prefer to take temp inside the manifold) you but keeping the IAT down does have the added benefit of increasing air density per given pressure value thus adding power. If you have the opportunity to modify coolant flow to the head then go for it! I was merely attempting to point out that it is also very important to know what your intake temperature is doing. On a side note... 24psi seems quite serious. some background on the build? supporting headwork etc? -pete

ahhh... that old story

that zx manifold is niceeee.... Can I ask what it looks like on the inside and why the rationale of using a zx tapered manifold over a larger non-tapered unit? (or is that super-secret? ) -pete

connecting that manifold air temp sensor is definately a good idea - you need to quantify your intake air temps to be able to know how effectively you are bringing them down. Then you can experiment with different combinations of exaust wrap and head sheilding intercooling etc. I'm running high comp on my l26 n/a and had ALOT of problems with det-moments... running like a dream now - insulate insulate insulate.

it is possible to fit and clamp some EFI hose over the back of some o-ring injectors. Many members have done it (inc. myself) although it is not exactly the recommended approach.

What type of cooling fan are you using? have you got plenty of battery? is your water pump a new unit? remove the thermostat entirely and run it up to temp(the thermostat may not be opening correctly), how big is your radiator?

well I was hoping to prompt a bit of discussion about NAPS manifolds but i guess my approach was WAY to subtle So i'll put it more plainly, why is the NAPS manifold so rarely seen on Z engines? - it seems like an improvement over the stock tapered N/A manifold and since the turbo manifolds are rarely avail locally in Aust it seemed the obvious choice... additionally the TB port size is already ~30cm2(80x40mm minus the round edges), much larger than the stock 50mm TB mouth(~20-22cm2 i think?) AND there are no EGR bumps at the base of the runner-plenum interface. The EGR dumps into just behind the TB (see above pics) which could easily be removed with a dremel (i have chosen to leave it on for now). I still need to tune things in properly but this manifold seems to deliver well into the 6-7k range once the ports are opened up a little. (I'll try to get some flow numbers when I come into some money lol) How come I so rarely see this used as a serious option on a Z? (i hope this isnt too annoying of a question but alot of what i've read "poo-poo"'s the NAPS manifolds and I cant see any good reason to. I have read plenty of posts about people considering using NAPS manifolds or dicussing sequential throttling but no real feedback after fitting and tuning. My experience has be wholely positive so far)

on a further note - I recently had a problem after doing HG and timing cover overhaul much simular to this. I traced it to bad sealing between the timing cover and the block: the coolant channels on the cover were so badly corroded* that, try as i might, I could not get the bastard to seal(thus water was escaping into the sump and oil into the coolant). In the end I had to swap it out for another timing cover off a spare block. Hopefully this isn't your problem but it may be worth a look if you can't trace it down. *(I hear this kind of thing happens commonly where straight water has been used for extended periods of time - causing the aluminium timing cover and thermostat to become sacrificial annodes to the block. Interestingly, I wonder how the alloy head would behave in this situation? any thoughts guys?) -Pete (also!! )

Yes of course... you know that i always favor the scientific approach! but affordability is a bit of an issue with me so I can't always be as precise as i'd like. If you're in the area some time soon i'll take it off the car an give you a look - the porting wasnt done by myself but by a local head engineer who claims some experience with Z engines. Ports are tapered and matched to the head-matched gasket and thus the head... which is simularly ported(38mm from PO). My rationale being that for the higher RPM camming of my engine this setup should be superior to the 32mm ports and twin, but small, butterflies. I'm certainly a big proponent on the small ports on cedrics combination but since the head is already ported I actually thought this might give a good comparison between concepts:icon15: I still have alot of tuning to do and if nessercary i can throw on a stock XZ manifold if you want to project some G-tech data... but thats a conversation for another time Since quite alot of material has been taken out - i wouldnt have trusted this one to home porting

Thanks, i figured so but thought i'd get someone to confirm since i was posting pics anywho:)

a thought - It might help to go back to basics a bits here... could you datalog your cranking and post? manually checked for injector firing?(wet plugs etc?) manually checked for spark? If you have the "flood clear" function engauged it might help to turn that off so you can do some throttle play during cranking... my MAP usually drops 80-60 during cranking *i think*.... hmmm i sure hope someone more knowledgable than I would jump in here *twiddles thumbs*

if this is the case, Could you run some degreaser through the radiator during flush?

Hello Z'ers, So I just got my manifold bits back from portmatching and wanted to share some pics and get some feedback... First off i could use a bit of help identifying the manifold - i've used it for ages but it never had a cast mark on it when i got it - the TB mouth is 40x80mm and matches to a sequential twin throttle. The TB required an adaptor plate for 60mm TB: the plenum is nice and...errrr cavitatious the TB sits on nice an snug now... The TPS is MS friendly of course and there is a idle control solenoid (one circuit to increase idle, one to decrease) on the bottom. finally the ports : I havent seen this TB(probably due to the Accel. cable issues) or manifold used much so I wanted to get some opinions and suggestions on identification(i think is maybe a r30 but not sure), application and anything that i can improve or might have missed. Cheers folks!

i cant quite understand your desription.. refer to your factory service manual or take a photo

if you still have the dizzy stick that on - now you only have to worry about troubleshooting on fuel if your problem is gone then check your36-1 wheel is in the correct position.... what made you suspicous of the cam? do you still have the specs for it.... how could it have been moved? (was the head off??) it should still run if the cam was a "little off" since its a first start you'll n eed to double and tripple check you wiring... sensors not being hooked up correctly will cause this kind of splutter non-start FYI - you may find 280's to be a little small for your application - i run 270's on my l26 N/A just fineeee. *edit* this should really be treated as an MS troubleshoot unless you have a good reason to suspect the cam etc.... check sensors, rpm signal, map signal, spark, etc etc i cant look at your msq for a bit as im not on my own computer perhaps posting on the ms sub forum would be more appropriate an yeild better responses?