Mikelly

Dennis, Your comments in your last post are comments that make us all stop and think about what we do. I'm not sure if there is a single person on this board who hasn't done a little stop light to stop light racing in their day. However, I'm also not sure to many of the members have contributed to an actual "Organized" street race where people meet, discuss the terms and conditions of the race, and then go to the location and commit the act. I have. In the late 80's I was into it a little bit because there was some easy money to be had. I also was involved in a race where a guy in a Corvette ended up on his roof, in which I won a LARGE sum of money. Thankfully no one was hurt and I got a clue and grew up mentally (OK, Just a little ). The fact that this has effected you to the point of NOT street racing is NOT a bad thing. It is a positive step towards becoming legitimate. You have three Zs. Why not take one of them and turn it into a bracket racer? You have an RV (Two actually!) and you could certainly tow a car to the track for a weekend event every now and then... Or better yet, how about autocross or driving schools? I used to love to get on my bike or in my car and go through the gears on the street. But now when I go to an event where I can get on the track, It takes all the fight out of me when I get back to the street. You know why? Because no matter how hard you drive or ride on the street, you will never push yourself or your vehicle as hard as you will in one afternoon at a simple autocross... You simply can't. I know drag racing is a little different, but less challenging in my book. But my point here is that you have three Zs and apparantly, not unlike a few of us on the board, enough discretionary income to take advantage of it and go play legally, where you would most certainly get MUCH MORE bang for the buck, and certainly without the hassles of Johnny Law and the legal system. As our society becomes more and more crowded, it will become less and less tolerant of US. The recreational hobbiest car and bike geeks will be forced into more and more legitimate means of playing with our cars. I fully expect it to be MUCH more of a headache to drive a tricked out car on the street. There is already a bill in my state house being voted on soon with regards to ANY modifications to vehicles to include Exhaust, suspension, and lighting. If it passes, you can forget about tweeking your car or modifying it without antique plates being on it. These types of laws are aimed squarly at making the street racing scene go away. Motorcycles will be next. I know of several police officers in my area who will pill you over if your bike has an extended swingarm. They are starting to crack down on all forms of lighting and exhaust already. Why? TOO MANY PARTICIPANTS. We have exploded into a generation of CAR PEOPLE. It has become to easy to "BE A PART" of the culture by just slapping some stickers and fart pipe on a car, get some bling bling wheels from tires.com, and go pimp out at your local spot. All of a sudden you can consider your car "CUSTOM" for the sum of about $800, Which is more than it cost me to "Customize" my little 90 civic commuter box... There are too many people, using to little discretion and that is my opinion on why we will see more crack downs... So the only way we can escape the heat is to become legitimate. The money I've spent on cars in the last 10 years could have funded a very nice little amature racing business in either Karting or motorcycles, and I certainly could have gotten into the whole ITS scene with one of the Zs. This is a turning point for you. I'd hate to think though that your cars would end up on E-bay or the forsale section of the BBs just because you just stopped to think about something that has been there the WHOLE TIME you have owned your Zs. The laws were on the books already. The difference now is the fact that you are aware of them and their severety. I'm glad this has made you stop and think about it. However, I think now you are armed with valuable information. You can do many GOOD things with that information . I'll really be interested to see how the jury rules on this... I bet they come back with a verdict today. Mike

Good info and a good MATURE Discussion here... I'm always happy when these potentialy dangerous topics go well... Comment about the girl in the metro... "Deer in the headlights" is how you "COULD" explain why she may have started across and then realized "OH NO..." and hesitated... Just one possibility... The ruling by the judge SHOULD have a huge impact on the victim's responsibility in this tragedy. Once the final word is given by the jury, you can then expect round two in litigations court with a civil suit... Mike

Fly, On a personal level I absolutely understand why this is such a concern for all auto enthusiasts, myself include. The last post I made was from the legal, law enforcement, and devil's advocate side of my brain... Could there be more options, more reasonable options? Sure. Best way to get them opened up is to get someone with the right amount of horsepower/ funds to support it. Remember one of my first observations had nothing to do with fairness... It had to do with how the DA, an elected official chose to pursue the issue... There is a presumption that any modified vehicle is A: Illegally modified B: in the act of breaking some statute or C: preparing to be in the act to break some statute... In essence, guilty until proven innicent. However, High profile cases such as the one hilited in this thread go a long way toward that presumption of guilt... Perception and reality... sometimes it doesn't matter where one ends and the other begins... Sad, really. Mike

...And here I was thinking about making funny "sylicone breast" jokes about our friend here and his poor car, but thought better of it... Now I have to go find a paper towel tp clean the coffee off my monitor... Mike

...And here I was thinking about making funny "sylicone breast" jokes about our friend here and his poor car, but thought better of it... Now I have to go find a paper towel tp clean the coffee off my monitor... Mike

John, What means of payment do you accept and do you have paypal??? And what is the scoop on any Gnose plans?? E-mail me offline at dat74z@yahoo... I have several things to ask actually... Mike

Damn, I go away for about 16 hours and you guys go and get emotional on me. A Comment was made earlier about concern over making mods to your car, and worries of your car hobbie being at risk... Here is a WAKEUP call for ALL OF US: ANY Modifications made to a vehicle to change it from its STOCK configuration will ABSOLUTELY be considered altering the safety and original intent of USE of that vehicle. IF you ever are in the hot seat that these two street racers in San Diego are in, YOU TOO Will get raked over the coals for your mods. And there are laws on the books currently, many of which have been in place for DECADES that would absolutely send you to the slammer... BOTTOM line is that these two guys should ABSOLUTELY be tried together since the both of them were involved... The driver that fled the scene is ABSOLUTELY going to be charged with MORE crimes since he helped cause, then fled the scene of an accident, THEN tried to cover up his involvement, interferring in a police investigation. Will this get "US" bad press? Sure, but no more so than the kid with the loud fart pipe buzzing your subdivision. We argue this on another board all the time... Motorcyclists are VERY passionate about who represents the motorcycling community... The movie Biker Boyz was a total disaster for the image of most motorcyclists, and F&F did the same thing for the car scene. But it is the actions of ALL of us that get called into question when some posser on a sportbike does a stoppie in front of the Mall, or some kid in a Honda burns tires all the way across the fast food parking lot. We're all to blame every time we hammer the throttle and paint pavement, or carve a tastey section of PUBLIC road. The government and our society at large do not look favorably on tax funded transportation avenues being used in such a manor. Poll a cross section of society and if you ask people 30 years or older, the resounding comments will be prefaced by a "HELL NO...." Second Guess the victim's decision to pull across that road all you guys want, but the defendants were traveling 87MILES PER HOUR... You can't judge that kind of speed from the window of a moving vehicle, not with music playing, conversations going on, and the lack of experience of the driver considered... Next time you are at an intersection try and think about that one... I've sat in a squad car with radar gun ON and tried to visually guess at a drivers speed without watching the display... Over time I was able to do it, but not for QUITE a few months. Had she pulled out in front of the defendants when their speeds were in the 40s (Early in their "PASS") then I would have a minimal amount of sympathy for them, as it would seem more obvious that she wasn't paying attention. But as it played out, those kids in that GEO didn't stand a chance and those two guys racing will likely be convicted, justly so. Here is the real tragedy in all this... The victims are dead, and they can't be brought back. These two guys will be reduced to bankruptsy before all is said and done, they won't be popular in their neighborhoods if or when they get out of jail, and they certainly won't be able to get back the health that their bodies have lost in stress alone due to the presures put upon them. I couldn't imagine being able to sleep or eat had I been in their shoes... Those two guys are playing the events of that evening over and over in their minds many times per day. Some day, many years from now, probably decades from now, these two guys MIGHT be lucky enough to get to a point in life that paralleles normalcy, but they will never be the same, and financially they will never rebound from this. Is the city to blame? This reasoning I simply love... Did the mayor of San Diego say "I am NOT GONNA BUILD a drag strip because I want you to young fellows to go out there, hammer the throttle and wait for that young girl and her friends to pull out in front of you..." This is ludicrous. The city of San Diego has no moral obligation to provide a safe avenue for people to exhibit their speed. The city is doing their part to provide a cooperative for local businesses, major businesses and the residents of the region a place to conduct that business and a means to record those transactions, as well as provide other services that the formation of a city afford... No where does providing property for someone to create a drag strip come under the duties of city planner. I hear this crap all the time... "It isn't OUR FAULT. We have nothing else to do..." HORSE SHIT. That is CRAP and everyone who has ever used that lame excuse just dropped several IQ points by letting those words escape their lips... Here is a clue... IF YOU DON'T HAVE A TRACK CLOSE BY, YOU CAN'T LEGALLY PLAY! Now if you are STUPID enough to take the chance and get CAUGHT street racing, YOU CAN GO TO JAIL... You can also HAVE YOUR CAR C-O-N-F-I-S-C-A-T-E-D in Virginia. That's right, in Virginia they are starting to confiscate your cars if YOU get caught racing... Argue ALL YOU WANT, but the bottom line is this... Street racing in the United States is.... Illegal... I-L-L-E-G-A-L... No ifs, No ands, No BUTTS... Do the charges fit the crime? HELL YES and IF those two are convicted, I hope like hell they get the maximum. Two people died and all we want to do is focus on the street racing angle, and if it is fair... These two guys killed some kids who had their WHOLE LIVES ahead of them. Their parents will never get to experience the joy of grandparenthood, or having their children get married, or go to college, or life in general... You know those little things that YOUR parents get to experience with you being around... Think before you race guys... Pick your places if you have to do it on the street... But my guess is there is a track close enough by for you to go to... That excuse is just that... An excuse. Mike

Good info to share for sure. I'd recommend that we ALL look at this strictly from a legal/ what is on the books stance. We have ALL been guilty of bad judgement, and we have all gotten stupid in vehicles... Obviously these guys used bad judgement... I think the out come of the accident draws that conclusion for us all. Remaining neutral and emotion-free for a moment, the DA will argue that the sped used during this race was such that the victims in the Saturn could NOT have accurately judged the distance to be what it actually was, BASED ON the speed the vehicles in question were traveling. The fact that he made an illegal turn and failed to yield right of way is completely thrown out IF it can be proven that the vehicles who were cut off were speeding. This having just happened to my father yesterday, I can say that in Maryland BOTH vehicles get ticketed... My dad for failing to yield right of way, and the other driver for speeding... It will be VERY interesting to see how this turns out... ANYONE know the participants involved??? Mike

I think it is a universally accepted term to say a motor "Produced" XHP... It is a means to measure by, yes, but the fact remains that saying a motor procudes HP is certainly acceptable... If not, better line up every mot-journalist on the planet... and get a rope... Mike

Yourcarisslow, you are partially correct in that second degree requires no malice of forthought. However, Special circumstances allow for this particular charge when the crime is considered so heinous as to garner "Special Judicial prejudice". Again, doesn't mean they will get a conviction. But certainly falls within the guidlines for the charge based on the circumstances... I think it is a long shot and will likely get overturned on appeal if he is convicted. Mike

OK, Putting all emotion aside for a momeny, HERE is how the DA is proceeding: The racers, through blatant disregard for life (Both their own, and others), can be charged with 2nd Degree murder because doing such an obviously reckless act displayed their willingness to kill others. It is the same tact and argument used when an innocent bystander gets hit in a drive-by shooting... The victim was unintended, which doesn't lessen the charge... Will it get a conviction? Now THAT is the real question. One thing's for sure, it WILL be appealed if he is convicted. Remember what I said in my original comments... This DA is gambling to make a name for himself/ Herself, and to prove a point that "San Diego will NOT tolerate street racing on the streets, placing the lives of their fine citizens at risk... " Now, interjecting emotion... What if those killed were family members of yours? Different view when you look at it from that side of the fence, trust me... Mike

I wouldn't swap the rear out of the Z. It is strong enough for mild stuff bone stock, and can be upgraded to CV axles for anything over 300HP... I'm in the middle of researching a 347 stroker for my wife's 5.0 mustang, and we are actually thinking about a 331 stroker instead due to block fatigue issues... I guess the most logical question is this: What do you want to do with the car? Zs weigh MUCH LESS than most street cars out there... 240zs have been weighed in at 2400-2500#s. That is a sgnificant weight difference from even the little honda civics running around today... 600HP in a Z is gonna be hard to control, and not NEARLY as fun to drive daily as say 400hp... That said, I AM building a 550hp capable 383 stroker, so I can understand the alure of more HP... But having built one V8 Zcar, I can certainly attest to the less might be more line of thought... Mike

Damn... Did you try one of those flexy gizmos with the magnet attached to the end??? You can get them at auto-parts stores. I did the same thing with a WINGNUT for an aircleaner one time and it took an hour, but I got it out with the magnetic flexible gizmo thingy we bought at the parts store. Mike

Couple of things here... You really can't compare a I6 to a "Mild V8" without posting some numbers... Best bet is to save your money and BUY the JTR manual and just read it. A properly built aluminum accessoried V8 Chevy is gonna be within about 38# of an I6 motor and a Small Block FORD will weigh LESS than an I6. So going back to your title of comparing a mild Chevy to an I6, I'd say take it a step further... Compare a bone stock 350 Chevy to a bone stock 2.8L six nissan. The FI nissan motor made less than 170HP at the flywheel. Torque was LOW, in the 120s if memory serves me correctly (Someone with actual #s Jump in...). A stock Chevy 5.7L Truck motor is making about 245HP and about 275FT# of torque and can be bought NEW with a warranty for $1200. This would still require accessories, and a tranny/mounts/radiator/driveshaft, and would outweigh the I6 motor by about 75-100# (With Iron heads) depending on accessories like aluminum intake, waterpump, radiator. However, the BIG advantage is the torque... Look at the difference in the torque numbers... That is significant, and as John Lingefelter points out, TORQUE is what makes you move off the line. Torque wins races and makes you smile after that violent launch at the stoplight. I spent a small fortune trying to make I6 motors run fast. I wished I had started with the v8 kick in 1987 with my first Z... Oh well, live and learn. Hope this helps! Mike

This is VERY interesting... I think when you look at how the law is written, you can certainly apply the 2nd degree charge to this case. Is it harsh? If you are the victim' families probably not. a Second Degree murder conviction typically will get you a 20-to-life conviction, but won't require you to stay incarcerated that length. On a ten year felony conviction you will typically pull 50% of that time OR LESS. 20-to-life will get you out in 8-10 years if you keep your nose clean. I personally think that the DA has a real good chance of getting this conviction IF the jury is a predomenately conservative jury. It really depends on HOW MUCH the street racing problem has been pumped up in the local media, and how much the judge is effected by it. Going for the lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter would have been a much more conservative, and guaranteed conviction/ plea down situation. This DA is looking to make a name and prove a point. This could backfire on the DA's office, or send this poor schmuck to jail for a VERY long time. However, that said, this guy did have a choice NOT to race... You play, you pay. Mike

...SO after the weekend we had, it was topped off with an enjoyable evening with my mom and dad. I cooked dinner for them, and we spent 3.5 hours chatting about the "Old Days" and when I was a kid and just HOW MUCH I remember from childhood... Great evening, and just having them there to laugh and talk with was priceless. So this afternoon my mom calls and explains that my dad has been "T-BONED" in an accident. Car is totalled and they had to "Cut" him out of it. He is OK. Pulled some back muscles and got bruised up but that was about it. Both he and the other guy were ticketed, but from the sound of it my old man made an U-Turn at a green light, but he failed to yield to the young guy he turned in front of... Poor guy thought he killed my dad. They said he was in tears... Man, I was a wreck when my mom called... Kept it in, but the stress... Man. Dad is taking the week off from work, and he is gonna go to Lowes with me to pick up the materials for the stairs to the second story of the garage, and to help pick out the french doors for the family room... I'd just as soon keep him close by... Mike

Thanks for the well wishes guys... Alex, I'm with you... Reap what you sow. My wife and I are spot on with our combined assesment of his situation. She has a VERY level head on her shoulders, and I typically don't make any comments or suggestions until after she has opened the door for them. Otherwise, I'm just there to support her. Mike

As you guys know, my wife Donna's Grandmother was just diagnosed with cancer. She has no more than 6 months to live, likely MUCH less, AND they will NOT do Chemo on her since she is in such an advanced stage and she is 89 years old. Three days ago Donna's step mother was admitted to UVA for suspected heart trouble. She is being kept while they do testing on her until Monday. Last NIGHT I get a call at about 12:30AM (OK This morning) from Heather, our sister inlaw. Donna's little brother Michael has been rushed to the hospital as they suspect he is having a heart attack. He is 33 years old. Michael and I became super close when I started hanging out with my future inlaws. We clicked instantly, as we both liked cars, played drums, and enjoyed having a good time. It was Michael's acquisition of a lift for his garage that gave me the inspiration to build my own garage and get my own lift. However, Over the last year or so we distanced ourselves from Michael and Heather primarely due to two things: Their diets and Alchohal. They eat poorly, and wheh we are at their place We eat poorly with them (Which for Donna and I both spells gastro-intestinal trouble in the most painfull forms) and they drink more in a weekend than I consume in a month, and I like to have a few... I tried telling him that he needed to slow down a bit (Without seeming to preach), and his health has been getting worse, with recent cholesteral levels hitting ABOVE 300. Now, mind you, Michael isn't an overly heavy guy. He still has a 36 inch waist, and is 6 feet tall. Probably weighs 21- 220 Pounds. You wouldn't look at him and say "This guys is ripe for health issues". But even though he has been warned by Dr.s he just keeps on doing his thing. I'm hoping this wake up call will hit its mark. He will likely have to have bypass surgery... 33 years old, man that is scary. I love the guy like a brother and I enjoy his company so much, but I can't watch him drink himself into and early grave. Mike

Actually YES... I need to have the rails modified to go further UP the wall to take advantage of the additional four feet. As it is right now I have to Close the door in order to lift a car. If I move the rails for the door so you can run the door further UP the side of the wall, I should be able to clear with the door in the up position for two reasons... It will be HIGHER up (Closer to the ceiling) and four feet closer to the opening. The size of the door is 12 feet wide by 8 feet tall. It actually works PERFECTLY for my application, and is exactly what I had in mind except for the issue with the lift which can be fixed. Mike

Finally got pics of my garage up on my personal Album!!! Also got a pic of the Mustang wheels on the Zcar inside... Mike

John makes excellent points here. As I posted a couple summers ago, My little brother got nabbed doing 104/55 and was sentenced to a huge fine, Restricted driving to and from school (Community College) and 15 days in jail. The let him out on house arrest at my house. I drilled into his head for 15 days that I wouldn't take it too kindly to hear that he was street racing and doing wrong, being that he was on probation for 3 years... Still has a year to go... Guess who is still street racing? Guess who ALMOST got his ass kicked by a 36 year old and VERY disappointed older sibling??? I hadn't put my hands on him in many years, But the other night he met Mr. Wall and I had to make myself let go of him, and I haven't been THAT MAD in some time. Point is that he still lives with my parents, He is 21, unemployed, and basically draining them dry of extra money that they should be stashing for retirement. He isn't doing ANYTHING to improve his place in society and if he gets caught again He will go to jail, no iffs ands or butts... There are worthwhile mistakes in life... Don't let this one escape you. Mike

Tonight, Over Dinner we were discussing goofy things, and I got on the subject of my mom and Dad, and I told my wife how much people respect my dad, and how much I looked up to him over the years because how people in our community spoke so highly of him and how hard he worked, how resourcefull he was, and how he has never "Quit" on anything he tried. I told her that I've always tried to meet that goal of being like him, and she stopped me and told me "You're there. I knew it on the first date." I almost cried... Funny, but I don't see it that way... I guess perception is everything, Huh? Did I mention my wife is the most wonderful woman in the world? If not, Pete will shortly... Mike

This car will be a trailered race only car, BUT if the weight is close to that of a factory windshield then maybe we'll scrap that idea.. Mike

I'm looking for an MP3 player. Recommendations??? I"m cheap, but would like something I could use when I'm commuting to work on the motorcycle or on the bike taking trips! Mike

Not to mention the fact that you are 20 years old and the national drinking age is 21. The judge will look poorly upon that as well. Look, Don't beat yourself up to much, but just enough to make sure you won't do something so F'ing stupid again. We all do things that are dumb, and it is so easy to zig instead of ZAG, doing the wrong thing instead of the right. Bottom line is when you drink alchohal or do a drug, your decision making processes take a major hit. You might THINK you are OK to drive, and you MIGHT get lucky. You might end up dead. Worse yet, you might end up lucky, but have SOMEONE ELSE end up dead due to your lack of good judgement. You'll have this to remind you every time you go to pay your insurance premium for QUITE some time. Hopefully you won't slip and let the memory slip and allow you to become confident that you can handle alchohal and keys to a car again. Good luck, and glad it WOKE you up! Mike 8)