Gollum

I don't think I can do much legally to the KA24DE. Man, MORE research to do, thanx guys (catch the sarcasim?). Well, honestly... I blame CA for most of my problems. In most other states my car would either not need to be smogged or would quickly be approaching that beautiful year of exemption. Now that i'm looking at it, the KA42DE doesn't seem that bad. At 155HP and 160lbs I could do a budget swap and leave it as it is for a while. 22/28 MPG, not bad either for 2.4 liters. I could get a whole donor car for pretty cheep too. Hmm, ya got me thinking man.

Yea, that's what 240 guys have told me, to just stay away from it, they're totally different motors. I understand the tourque/gas milage thing now that you mention it. My friends B16A gets 35 MPG and has a decent 150 Fwhp and revs like a maniac. And his tourque is FLAT accross the RPM. When I saw his dyno I was like "dude, they didn't measure tourque?!" the tourque was blending in with a line on the graph, it was that flat. Now the real issue to me is that the WHOLE point of Vtec is to have tourque down low and still have a rough cam in the higher RPM. So what did honda screw up? The F20C is great at Vtec, so what's wrong with the non vtec lobes? Hmm, I'm gonna do some research on cams for this car. RAGE ALERT: WHY does nissan hate ME!?!?!?!? Seriously, why didn't they ever release the SR20DET in the 240SX cars and why did we NEVER see a skyline in the US! Now that the V6 is in the new skylines they're in the US but that doesn't get ME anywhere! Bah. Some of the best motors ever made, and you can't legaly put one in a US car. This sucks.

Well, i don't mind being proven wrong when it's information I want to hear. If it's really that cheep then I guess you would want to get one from nissan.

I can't wait for the day when the japanesse market is like the US market. You know, open up a summit type catalog and see countless companies offering new crate motors ready to be put in any car willing. Although, this might never happen due to smog regulations. But it's nice to think about. So yea, until that time comes (if it does) then best bet for a new one is the dealer. But it might still be cheeper to get a used one and have the block torn apart/rebuilt/blueprinted/balanced by a machine shop.

materchan... i know. It's the only way i'd do it. My best friend used to work for the local smog reff and I'd hang out at his work almost everyday learning about CA smog laws. I know what's required. This also means major dash modifications. But it's all worth it to be legal. Also, doing research on blowers, only one i found so far that's CARB legal is comptech. But with another 100HP legally :drool: wow. But it would be 1/3 of the swap costs... I think it could wait until I've drained out all love of the stock 240HP. EDIT: Umm, the F20C doesn't get NEAR the gas milage I thought it did. So disregard my earlier statement. High compression must really take it's toll. Well, I guess the SR swap still reigns supreme for 4 cyl. swaps. Too bad it's just plain illegal.

Yea, the 2.0L was better in my eyes. The only thing the 2.2 gained was low end tourque. If you compare the motors on the autox then they're the same. The S2k has gone through many changes in it's short life so far. The suspension has been changed several times, along with the diff. The new ones are much better track cars stock than the origonal ones. But I'd probly go for a strong nissan rear diff, and then figure out something to do with the front end. Also keep in mind this wouldn't be a track car. This is an idea I had for my ZX, wich will be my daily driver for who knows how long. Once I get a shop to work on a car and such, I'm gonna buy an S30 and that's a whole different ball game. Trueschool, do you ever watch BMI? Did you see the "american touge"? One of the cars that was on that episode was a AR86 with a S2k motor & tranny. They all seemed to really like it and hadn't really thought about it. And S2ks are getting VERY common on the road it seams. I see at least 2 every day it seems. For a car that the dealer wants 40k for, it's a popular car. The idea of a supercharger on a F20C is great, i've seen several and heard great things about it, never driven one or been driven in one so I can't say first hand. But does anyone make a supercharger with a CARB label? If so that'd be sweet.

._. 4.36? Hmm, i wonder what RPM that would put me at for freeway speeds.

Well, ONE thing i could say against the VQ53DE (although it's a great swap in my eyes) is that because it's V6 it's got a higher center of gravity. The lower your center of gravity the better. I'd rather have a 500lb motor that sits ultra low than a 300 lb motor that sits high (not talking about any motors specifically, just being general). I like what aux said. And i don't mind being the first. Just need the job that can provide the cashflow first... And I also see what you mean projectrb240sx that driving under 7k seems lame in an S2k. Well, when I drove one (it was an 02) it seemed to really come alive at 6200 and killed until redline. And with the way the tranny & rear diff. are set up you can shift and stay in that RPM pocket all day long. The beauty is that you can get around town traffic under that 6k limit fine. And that's where gas milage reigns supreme. My main reason for the swap idea, I could have paid for the swap in gas money in just a couple of years. If that's not incentive then I don't know what it. Also, commets about flashoptions noted. I was only using them for comparison. I'm gonna start calling the local jap junkyards i know, see if they got any F20C motors. I'd like to take a moment to say this, that I LOVE all responces i've gotten so far. All of them very well places and well directed. Every reply, although varrying in message, has been intended to improve my intent. That's what I love about this board.

Hey, I know some people here have thought about the honda S2k as a great car to get a motor from, just darn expensive. Well, they're FINALLY starting to show up in junkyards for decent prices. I think this is a great way to go for a LEGAL 4 cyl. swap. SRs are illegal, and most 4 bangers are set up for FWD. Well, here's a motor that's great stock, revs awsome, gets great gas milages, and comes equiped with one of the nicest shifting trannys on the market. http://www.flashoptions.com/product.asp?prodID=74 Just under 5k. By the time that I get around to doing a swap they'll probly be closer to 3k at the rate they're starting to come onto par with honda motor prices. That's really not that much more to pay considering it would be legal for us 76+ guys. The biggest argument agaist it could be that it can't get nearly as much HP on the stock internals as a SR. Well, that's a good point, but this thing's selling point to me is the fast that it's legal. So there isn't much you could get away with anyways. But I bet you could get the F20C to 300hp NA legally.

you have to reroute the oil & coolant lines somehow. I know it's doable. Tons of people have taken merkur heads and put them on ford blocks (or the other way around, i can't remeber). As long as the head bolts line up, most of everything else can be modified... sorta. It's alot of work at anyrate. I'm changing a head gasket on a mercury sable this week, that's not fun as it is. I can't imagine a project like this. Expecially being the first to do it. Ouch.

He's right. But the 20B was never in a production car in the USA, so it wouldn't pass the dyno... suckage. And any modification is legal, as long as it's CARB approved. There aren't really CARB associations with 76' and older cars so it's a grey area. If you had a 68' stang 302 and where running an aftermarket intake manifold and carbs, in theory there's nothing they can do about it. Any ticket you get for it you could fight, as long as your car passes the smoke law stating that a car must not exude smoke ever for more than 10 seconds, disqualificaiton could result in fixit ticket or direct action of the DMV. This is how people get away with 600hp "street legal" cars. If it's newer than 76' then it's a whole different story.

He's right. If you're REALLY carefuly you might match the gas milage of a V8. But put your foot into it and it'll SOAK up the gas. Well, zlovin' I'm about 80% sure it illegal to put that motor in your car. But the good news is that I'd say it's a 90% chance you can get away with it.

would sit in a Z, if you know what you're doing like awsome axilary here. He's got a clean swap coming along so far. Too bad the 20B isn't legal in CA eh auxilary?

becase there are very few shared parts between the two motors. Sure you can turbo any NA z, but it's still not an L28ET. different exhast manifold, intake manifold, ECU, cylinder head, pistons (compression), and then the turbo motor has all the turbo parts. So they share the block, crank, rods... did I miss much? Considering you can get a turbo ZX for under 2k with a decent motor, it's cheeper to just get a whole car and change the motor than buy all the parts individually. You could always hunt down a L28ET motor all by itself, might be pretty cheep depending on where you're getting it from, but should have most the parts you'd need. The biggest difference though is the head. Oh, and you could have searched for you answer.

What track(s) do you frequent? I try to swing by infineon as much as i can.

Hey, if you go to any races once the swap is done let me know. I'll show off my 280ZX... wait... I guess I won't be showing off much... Well, I'll let you do all the showing off.

If you do the swap and bring it to a reff and have it leagalised then you're still exept from the 2 year smog check. The exeption is for the car, not the motor. The only time you could have a problem after that point is if you get pulled over and a cop has you pop your hood, thus finding obviously aftermarket parts forcing you to go back to the reff to have an inspection. But if you have at least leagalised the swap, than even a cop that knows the L28ET didn't come in the 240 can't impound your car. So it is possible to have a L28ET in a 240 and not have to smog. But it's illegal to change anything. And as far as I know, when you do a motor swap, you don't have the register the vehicle any different. I've known 3 guys who have done swaps on newer imports with no problems in that regard. I doubt it would be any different for a pre 76' car. The only difference is that they put a bar lable in the engine bay that has a code on it that tells anyone smogging it what car to smog it as.

Well, in theory, the longer the stroke the less RPM the piston can handle. F1 cars usually use ultra short stroke and big bore. The main thing to look at is RPM. If it't not going to go above 7k then a huge stroke should be fine. As to any REAL suggestions, I'll leave someone here who's got more practice than theory to make a recomendation.

hee hee. That made my afternoon. I totally know that feeling, just not about my car unfortunatlly.... Well, all in due time I guess. Good luck with the upgrades, have fun with it too

Good posts everyone, to be sure. I'm sorry I got wheelbase and track width mixed up. I was in too much of a scramble trying to type out my thoughts and it all got mixed up in my head. Well, it's true that the stock stangs don't handle great, conversion to 3 link rear suspention and an aftermarket front k member & control arms. This would be much superior to the mustang design but still accept stang parts, wich is the benefit that makes me think about this idea. Ok, so the first gen Zs don't handle so bad with the correct/smart modificatoin & tuning. Maybe it's a moot point all together. But I do have one question for tube80z. Does your car have the stock steering rack, and if you changed the motor to something other than L series (assuming it's L series already) would you change it?

The 351W is very similar to the 5.0L. Main difference is deck height. But I know a guy who has somewhere around 1100HP out of a 351W bored/stroked to 427. Mad blower too. Guy is insane to drive it on the street. Once got a ticket for "bald" tires... He runs slicks 24/7. The cop was an idiot. So that's the kinda potencial the 351W blocks have. But you'd spend less on your house methinks.

Ok, so I was sitting there the other day thinking "Z suspension geometry isn't the greatest. It basically need to be totally rebuilt to perform it's best." And right that second FactoryFiveRacing came to mind. The idea of a single car donor for a project. It's genius. So why not go buy a 1.5k donor car that will have your motor, suspension, tranny, brakes, steering rack? It would save tons initially and leave more room for improvement. So who thinks it's possible? I'm talking about the Fox body stangs if anyone didn't know. 87-93. I know the wheelbase is a bit wider about 105" if i remember correctly, so major modification would have to be undergone to the chassis and true widebody is a must. First REAL question about all this. Would it be more logical to do this to a first gen Z or second gen ZX?

Well, not only do you get more displacement, but it looks stock. If it can be done I'd consider it WAY before considering putting an entire RB motor in my car. If I put an RB motor in my car I'll have to swap the motor every other year to get pass smog, if I just switch the head I could pass emissions no problem as long as I could get someone to pass visualisation for me. The idea of a stock looking head on a complete stock motor is awsome. I bet 99.9% of cops wouldn't be able to tell if it was just an NA car with the NA RB25DE head