bjhines

this is an R200 NISMO unit... with 60 degree ramps... I will add many more pictures later tonite...

APOLOGY stands... thank you for accepting.... BUT!!! now that I have the unit open and sitting exposed for all to see.... I WAS RIGHT!!!! THERE IS A THRUST WASHER IN THERE>> IT WAS NOT APPARENT UNTIL I ACTUALLY GO IN THERE>>> It appeared externally there was a 2 mm gap for free movement... BUT!!! mine has a spacer that does indeed set lash....the spacer is smaller than the inside diameter of the carrier side flang.. so I could not see it until I took it apart... HERE iT is....THIS spacer and it's mate set lash in the side gears... so it IS INDEED STATIC... just as I assumed... http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=5410&size=big&cat=500&page=1 I have installed half a dozen lockers and LSD units in off road 4x4s... I remember distinctly that the POSITRACTION units which are similar to the Hitachi units we are using... go in NON FLOATING axles... and bearing thrust and preload was set by shimming the side gears... meaning that they could not move axially...this is now a NON ISSUE... I WAS RIGHT THE WHOLE TIME!

Edit: read post further down... I was right once I opened it.... Well.... Im eating crow on this one... It is evident that there is significant clearance between the side gears and the carrier housing....although I have not opened the carrier yet.... It looks as though I have made an *** out of myself once again.... I owe JMortenson an apology for the foul frustated post... I should have just pulled and opened the differential before arguing.... But look at the bright side... I will post complete pictures of a new NISMO LSD unit.. which I would have never had the determination to do if had not gotten soo frustrated in the first place... Is there anything in particular that you guys would like to know about this unit... thicknesses or diameters....

I am sorry for allowing my frustration to get the best of me... I have been called an A-hole many times... I am used to it... soo lay it on me. I am taking my LSD out today to get the measurements... the car is on the lift...I locked the rear wheels with the Ebrake.. I used a 3 foot breaker bar attached to the pinion nut to turn the pinion in the forward direction...with the rear wheels held still... I cannot put enough force on the nut to get ANY outwards deflection of the axles... I cannot put the kinds of loads on the nut that the driveshaft will on the input flange... but this mocked test looking at the exterior of the diff was only a starting point... it will be out by lunch.. I will get it on the bench tonite... I will post pictures of the internals.. as well as the count and types of various plates inside...soo that my question was not a total hijack of this thread...

You ask... what holds the side gears in place...NOTHING??? how about the carrier/case itself... Am am truly at a loss for words... after this I am done with it...I know for a fact that the side gears stay still in thrust....they do not get closer or further away from each other... Think about this... the side gears contain the retainers for the halfshaft's stubs... If the G.D. side gears moved in and out... your godforsaken axles would also thrust in and out of the entire G.D. rear end... that my friend IS NOT THE CASE>>>... so ... what ever... this argument has reached a point that it defys all logic and common sense... I have a NISMO LSD R200 installed in another car... Obviously the only way to get TRUE answers is to get them myself... If I am wrong..... I will post my apology here...

soo in onther words... with any application of force on the carrier the gear teeth move out and away from each other which would cause horrendous wear on the edges and faces of the misaligned teeth... I really find that hard to believe...those teeth are not designed to run in misalignment or with improper lash.. are they?... they look like a standard heel to toe shape to me...

Ahhhh.... I did not realize that they were different torque specs... VERY SCARY!!!! I will retorque them before it goes under the car... VERY GOOD TO KNOW!!! thank you... " Other makes using the R180? Who are they? If you are alluding to Subaru you should realize that they used the smaller R160 diff. " I have to do some research on this... It is my understanding that the Subaru R160s may be the only ones that use 25 spline axles..There is some question as to which stubs the Subaru R180 had. "" Well, here’s what I did to use the R180 CV axles in a 240Z: Unbolt the stub axle companion flange and swap with the CV companion flange. Tighten bolt. What part of that is not easy or cheap? I wonder if you are confusing the R180 CV axle with the R200 CV axles? "" Ahh haa.... this is truly a neat solution to put CV axles in a stock 240Z...but do you mean to say that you found inboard differential stubs with 25 splines on a CV halfshaft that literally BOLTS into the 240Z R180 differential.. and bolts directly to the stock WHEEL flanges...THAT IS GREAT TO KNOW....!!! If you mean that you have to remove the wheel stub axle flange then it is a little tougher to remove the staked nut than you allude...but it may be the preferred way to go when you are using a STOCK 240Z R180 and you wish only to upgrade to CV AXLES.... BUT... my problem was the fact that MY NEW differential had snap in style 25 spline axle retainers... I had to find SNAP IN 25 spline SHAFTS to fit the 240Z chassis and wheel flanges... but instead I reworked the carrier to accept the original 240Z bolt in stub shafts using the original halfshafts... In other words this turns ANY NEWER 25 spline RXXX differential into a BOLT IN STYLE HALFSHAFT old school 240Z compatable replacement... It may very well work with the R160/180 LSD units too. AND NO... there is absolutely no confusion on my part about the difference between 25 spline halfshaft stubs... and side specific, 29 spline, R200 stubs... I have examples of both...bolt in 25 spline and snap in 29 spline... I have an R200 NISMO LSD... installed in a 1972 chassis...piece O cake..well documented...expensive... I have this BRAND NEW never installed R180 going into another 1972 chassis...I was not able to come up with driveshafts that would satisfy the late style snap in stub sockets...with a 25 spline count, and of equal length, that would bolt to the 240Z wheel side flanges.

ok.... how about this... If you still have yours dismantled... stick a side gear in a pressure ring with any spacer that might go in as well.. gear teeth up. set the cross pinion with spider gears on top of the side gear... inside of the pressure ring... make sure the spider gears are spread out against the inside of the pressure ring... and center the pinion in the center(rest) position in the V groves. how much space is there between the pinion cross and the inside face of the side gear.. is there 3mm or more to work with? this would give the lowest clearance situation... I really think that the gears are set to a static lash clearance...the pressure rings obviously move away from each other.. but I think the side gears thrust against the inside of the carrier case...passing/thrusting through the pressure rings freely... I dont have one dissasembled to see... but that may change this week... one picture shows the side gears shoulders extending through the pressure ring...are you sure that the side gears are not bearing thrust against the end of the necked down shoulder of the side gears. I realize that in an open diff the rear faces of the side gears bear against the case in much the same way as they APPEAR to bear against the insides of the pressure rings in the LSD..... But i think that some study will reveal that the assembled unit keeps the thrust clearances for the side gears static... while the pressure rings are able to thrust back and forth freely...discounting spring disk pressure/preload. I also realize that you may have trouble popping a side gear out of the pressure ring be cause of surface tension of trapped lubricant... but that is not a problem during operation of the unit...there may be a thrust washer in there as well...but it may only be for preload clearance and self lubricating/anti gall

I am looking at the drawings... It makes sense to look at it this way... I would like to know how much room there is between the inboard face of the side gears.. and the nearest object(pinion cross)... in order to stick something on the end of the side gear... inside the LSD unit. I am assuming that they have used most of the space available... and the spider gears appear to be much smaller than the ones used in the open single pinion set... I know it is tight.. but 3mm would be all I need... even an estimation would work...3mm isn't much. I have made a closer examination of the unit. It appears to show that it is not possible for the clearances to change in between the 2 side gears.. or the next nearest object(pinion cross)... as the lash in the gears would change and eventually strip the side and pinion gears... my original concern was wether or not the carrier could shift side to side.. but it appears that this is static as well... I just wanted to know if I had 3mm or more to work with.

I have a question that pertains to stub shaft installation.... I realize that you have an R200 and the application I am interested in is for an R180... but... what is the clearance between the inside face of the side gears and the center pin/cross... I would be intersested if it had more than 3mm that did not change in the operation of the LSD...

There are TONS of R180s out there from other makes and models (even LSD units)... but there has never been a "BOLT IN" solution to using them in early model 240Zs... or even 280Zs for that matter... This is a way to make late model R180 differentials from other makes work in early model 240Zs... with the original 240Z driveshafts/halfshafts. The problem.... most late model cars with R180s use snap in 25 spline CV axles... There is/was no combination of stock parts that will allow you to use these rear ends without extensive work modifying the outer wheel stub axles to accept CV joint type half shafts.... in case you havn't looked... this is not easy or cheap... apparently... I am the first person to attempt to modify one of these late model R180s to use STOCK bolt in halfshaft stubs... with no cutting or grinding, no adaptors, no pressing, and no problems with leaking gear oil. The answer.... There was much discussion about manufacturing a button adaptor to allow the early bolt in 240Z halfshaft stubs to snap into the new R180s.... well... it turns out that Nissan/Fuji Heavy Industries already made the adaptor... and they are installed in every early style R180 used in 240/260Zs. The buttons are pressed into the inboard side of the side gears in the differential carrier...and they are quite easy to remove and reinstall by tapping them lightly with a hammer... The process..... You really need the FSM for the R180s used in the early 240Z cars... I am confident that the torque specs listed there are correct for the later style R180s as well... You must dissasemble the carriers for the early R180 and the newer R180... When you remove the side gears... pop out the threaded "button" that the stub axle bolt engages when you bolt on the side flanges/stubs... then pop it into the new side gears that go in the newer R180... Here is a picture with the button installed in the new gear on the left.. the old gear is on the right.... http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=5384&size=big&cat=500&page=1 reassemble the new carrier with the buttons in the side gears... leave out the center pin cover and get rid of the snap rings... Here is a picture of the completed assembly with the unused parts on the carrier flange. toss the snap rings and the center pin cover in the trash. http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=5393&size=big&cat=500&page=1 Here is a picture of the late model snap style carrier as it came from the factory. http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=5392&size=big&cat=500&page=1 Here is the differential with the bolt in side stub axles installed and ready to mount in the car... http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=5391&size=big&cat=500&page=1 It is a done deal.. and it does not take any heavy equipment.. just patience, hand tools, and a FSM for reference... The center pin cover serves as a side flange seal protector... It limits the insertion of the snap in side stubs so that they do crash into the seal when poeple hammer them past the snap rings... there is no room for it in the carrier with the bolt in buttons installed... obviously the snap rings serve no purpose and can be left out.

I'll start a new instuctional thread and let this one die...

I posted some pics to the members gallery... check em out. This is how the new K-R180 carrier was originally set up. http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=5392&size=big&cat=500&page=1 this is it completed with bolt on "buttons" installed. http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=5393&size=big&cat=500&page=1 Here is the "button" installed in the new side gear. http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=5384&size=big&cat=500&page=2