Doc Hawk Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Gents, I have a complete running 97 Camaro that will be the donor for a 240Z swap. My question is, what are my engine management options? I would like to end up with a tunable, relatively user-friendly ECU without spending more than a few hundred dollars. I have heard that the stock ECU on some Camaros is tunable. How much hacking is required? I don't want to be doing much work on PC boards. What about the Accel DFI model 74022-L? Anyone use that? Thanks, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Hawk Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Answering part of my own question, it is the stock ECU out of a 1994 or 1995 LT1 vehicle. The 94/95 models had the OBD1 and flashable roms, so apparently they could be programed with a PC. I don't know what's involved in connecting the PC to the ECU, and it doesn't sound like this would provide datalogging for street tuning; I would rather not go this route. So, Accel? I presume there are options from Haltech etc. as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 http://www.tunercat.com/ has about everything you'll need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTHALOSISM Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 http://www.ls1lt1.com/forum/pcm-tuning-computer-diagnostics-77/ this should help you with any questions you may have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTHALOSISM Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 What would be best is have some one take your stock lt1 harness and make a standalone one with a new fuse block. If your pcm is a 94-97 then it can be tuned with a laptop. If its the 93 then you have to get a "chip" that has been modded. Make sure you either get a VATS bypass module or remove the VATS out of the PCM. Other wise your car will not run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIVEN Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 ^^I totally agree^^ I've done a few LT1 swaps in other cars. If you are on a budget it's not too tough to modify a factory harness. I've gone that route and also used Painless and S&P. The '94-'95 ECM is a bit "simpler" as it's OBDI and you'll find that many of the aftermarket harness manufactures actually use them in place of the newer ones. Be warned that some tuners simply "turn off" some of the sensors rather than actually do the tuning. I found that Street and Performance just added fuel and timing across the board and deleted the MAF. It really didn't run much better or faster than stock but resulted in a burned piston. Why are you so concerned with tuning? Do you have specific mods in mind? You might be surprised just how much the stock tuning can adapt to bolt-ons. If you just plan to tune all your power in, you may be disappointed when you can't get an additional 100hp with a few keystrokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Hawk Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 Thanks you two; your opinions jive with all my other research. Why are you so concerned with tuning? Do you have specific mods in mind? You might be surprised just how much the stock tuning can adapt to bolt-ons. If you just plan to tune all your power in, you may be disappointed when you can't get an additional 100hp with a few keystrokes. Really? I have an 83mm BBK throttle body and a thin head gasket. With the headers I am going to tune the advance and AFR net me 500 HP at the wheels. Just kidding. I'm looking at LE1 heads and a 226/232 .578/.574 110 LSA Cam. I don't think the stock tune is going to handle that. It's not just tuning, either. Deleting smog, anti-theft, ABS, and some other things do require getting into the ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTHALOSISM Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I was thinking of going with the c503 cam swap 1.6 rollers and beehive springs. Other than that not much else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Hawk Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) I've done a few LT1 swaps in other cars. If you are on a budget it's not too tough to modify a factory harness. I've gone that route and also used Painless and S&P. What kit/gear/reference did you use to modify the factory harness and PCM? I am pretty sure I'll be using either the OBD2 I own, or buy a used OBD1 and one of the software solutions. Edited May 30, 2011 by Doc Hawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIVEN Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I was armed with no more than a wiring diagram I lifted from Mitchell and soldering tools. The donor car was a '95 Caprice and I was able to utilize the harness, relays, and PDC. My uncle did the reflash. I prefer the OBDI for simplicity's sake. They don't require simulators for the downstream O2 sensors. You'll be able to delete the AIR and EVAP systems with no issues. I recommend retaining the EGR if you can. It's not too complicated -- just takes time. Here's a "budget install" I did on one of my dad's cars. This one was a little less "budget" I did on one of his others. The donor car was a '96 Fleetwood. It was actually the first one and used a Street and Performance harness and ECM but, as I mentioned earlier, there were issues with their programming. My uncle sorted it out and flashed another ECM for it. Once the bugs were worked out we added the Paxton and flashed a 3rd ECM. There have been no issues with the harness. The ECMs are all OBDI but the OE Fleetwood can be plugged in and runs fine, it just sets codes for the missing items. I can't seem to locate the other photos of a Chevelle with a '96 Trans Am engine using the Painless harness. Pretty similar to the S&P but I felt the quality and fit was slightly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I did an LT1 swap into a 73 240Z by modifying the stock harness from the donor car. I found all the wiring diagrams and PCM pinouts in the field service manuals at my local library. It cost me $.10 a page to photo copy the schematics I needed, then I simply removed the wires I wouldn't be using. I removed things like the EGR and air injection pump control, A/C and power steering pressure sensors, all the auto tranny connections (I went with a T5). I use TunerCat to tune it and remove variables associated with the systems I deleted and the VATS. Modifying the harness wasn't hard but it was tedious and took several hours. The car has been running very well now for 5 years and puts down 275 RWHP (measured on a dyno). Hope this info helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTHALOSISM Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 My pcm and harness was from Street and performance as well. I got mine off of CL for $250 unused. I ended up having to get a new chip as well since theirs was junk. The harness on the other hand is AWESOME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvincent Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) I use TunerCAT and and a 95 OBD1 ECU, also did my own harness gut from a 95 Trans Am. Most guys on LSI/LTI.com say the 95 ECU is the best and the 96-97 guys with OBD2 usually swap to an OBD1, supposed to give you more variables in tuning and doesn't need the catback Oxy simulators. There is scanner software available also, FreeScan comes to mind cause it is free ( I'm no pro at tuning and will probably try and locate an old LT1 tuner and have him do my final tune after get around to stroking my other LT1 motor. Try and find an old laptop with a serial port, do not trust the USB to serial adaptors, I think there are some topics about this and destroying the ECU, some do use it though. I think the TunerCAT site had info on this a few years back, the various Camaro and Impala forums all have tech sections as well. OXY and Knock sensors are very important, if you are going to run a lumpy cam and headers get the knock sensor and knock module (inside the ECU) from the Corvette ECU they are more tolerable to a lumpy idle, the B or F body ECU will throw codes and mess with the timing thinking the lumpy cam is a knock. Driven, Nice work! welcome, nice to have more LT1 people on board to bounce questions off of, we keep loosing LT1 swaps to the LS1 guys. Edited June 4, 2011 by gvincent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) Stay away from any LT1 ecu that has the numbers 16159278 on it. These are for the 92 and 93 cars....possibly other years and the ecu itself experiences failure rates about 10 bizzillion times those of other LT1 ecus. Delco used a conformal coating on the boards that is applied as a liquid that hardens into a flexible coating. Sadly, the formulation of this coating tends to expand with age. This is not good because it expands under the suface mount components on the board like tree roots under a sidewalk and has been known to even pop large chips right off the board. Standard, blue streak, and a1 cardone have varying degrees of failure fixing these and I have personally spent many an hour using super secret chemicals to remove the coating without damaging the boards and components yet these ecus still have a super high rate of intermittence........even after resoldering most every component. It's best to go with a system from a later car. Edited August 25, 2011 by HowlerMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsicard Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 gvincent: The LT-1 engine with the proper OBD1 ECM is a VERY good combination. I had a 1994 Buick Roadmaster with a LT-1 and it accelerate like crazy and got good mileage on the Freeway. Sold it to my son and it is still going strong and still getting good mileage. Stroking the LT-1 to 383 cu in with good aluminum heads and performance intake and cam should be a real performer. Displacement for displacement, induction for induction, the only advantage to the LSx engines over the Gen I and II SBCs is the availability of FACTORY produced aluminum blocks for weight purposes. Other than that there are no advantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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