bertio Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) So in a previous thread I talked about how I was having issues with my wheels not centering because I was running 25mm spacers with studs that have too small of a knurl so they are not fitted into my hub. Anytime the wheels were taken off it was a PITA to put them back on because the studs wanted to push through the back and you couldnt get a lug started to screw the lug in. So try this 4 times on 4 wheels and things are not going to center up right. So I went to a very very well respected and accomplished Z mechanic Pettersen Motorworks' Steve Pettersen. Steve got down on all fours and took off my wheels, actually measured my current knurls and length and we worked up roughtly what size studs I needed to order. I ended up going with a: Moroso 46160 Wheel Stud Moroso 46160 I had to change my threading to 7/16 due to the only studs I could find that would work with my threads were ARP Subaru WRX studs that came in at $32 for 5. ~~~~~ Should I have any issues with a different threading and size? (12mm vs 7/16 (11.2mm)) I would think not but I am still nervous. (I did get matching lugs) I am thinking that I am going to have a PITA time installing these longer studs because the only way to get them in there would be to pull the hub, which then if not done right you need to replace bearings (and even if done right some say replace anyways) I was going to have a shop press them in but then I would be looking at $600 just to have the hubs pulled. Option 1: Pull the hubs just ever so slightly to get the longer studs in. Option 2: Grind down the studs to a D or I have even seen people make a hole in the back of the Hub to fit the Stud through (I doubt I would do this) Option 3: bend a dust plate or grind down a part of the hub to allow fitment. Option 4: Whatever you guys come up with. I am also having some issues with trying to figure out what came with the car. The PO is a 17 boy who's father seems to have done most of the work so knows very little about what has been done to the car. So far I have a stock (brand new) Booster and BMC (stock which causes issues with the next two things) 4 pot calipers from a 91 RX7 and single pots from a maxima. Rear rotors from an 82 Maxima (I think) and front rotors from an Evo 8 that have been drilled to 4x114.3 (and possibly machined down to fit rx7 calipers) I know that my current studs are much larger than the OEM stud knurl length for a 260z so now I am wondering if the hubs are even stock. What are some Common hub conversions? I guess even if it wasnt common it might already be on my car . List goes as follows. 1.Install Studs 2.upgrade to 15/16 BMC for added pressure for rear disc brakes and larger front calipers, current BMC just cant cut it 3.Replace front rotors with ???? or remachine another set of evo 8's 4.go to a rim that is actually made to fit the car without a 26mm spacer 5.New weather stripping for hatch. 6.Quick Release Hub for added security, right now my car is too easy to start without a key. 7.Install Heater Core in time for Winter. 8.swap front ends with someone who might like my front end better, 9.Repaint car White, either stock white or matte (PROFESSIONAL MATTE not rattlecan matte) 10. Powder coat or paint rims black (either gloss or matte) 11 buy MSA front air dam with brake ducts, ZG flares 12. Source out competition hood scoop. 13. Swap SR20DET motor. 14. Win Lottery. 15. Profit. I AM A MAN WITH A PLAN!!! Attached is inspirational Z porn Edited June 25, 2011 by bertio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 ARP 100-7708 12mm x 1.5p .508 knurle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) ARP 100-7708 12mm x 1.5p .508 knurle. That what I am using. I also am using the Gorilla 7075 Aluminum Lug Nuts. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GOR-44037BK/ To install the studs, I removed the front wheel hubs and rear axles so that I could work on the bench. I used a 280ZX rear brake rotor as a fixture to hold the hubs/axles while I installed the studs. To do this, I placed the rotor on the work bench with the wheel mounting flange face up. I then placed the axle /hub face down through the rotor. The rotor is a close tolerance fit to the hub center and the studs and was used to keep the studs square with the face of the rotor. I then fed each of the four studs through the back of the hub/axle, through the rotor, and installed a stack of washers and hardened M12x1.5 nuts (not the lug nuts!) on the opposite side of the rotor face. After all the nuts were installed, I drew the studs through the flange by tightening the nuts. The torque required to draw the studs through the flange can be considerable. Don't exceed 75 ft-pounds during the process or you can damage your new studs. If you reach max torque before the stud is completely installed, then flip the assembly over and tap the back of the studs with a hammer to make sure that they are fully seated. Finally, torque the nuts to 75 ft-lbs, and then remove the nuts, washers and rotor. Repeat for each hub/axle. Grease bearings and reinstall hubs/axles. Edited June 25, 2011 by 74_5.0L_Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertio Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) I am using the studs I am because I measured the studs currently on that are too small and they already had a knurl of about .530 that's why I had to move to a stud with a larger knurl. Which also makes me think my hubs aren't stock. I also went with matching 7/16 thread gorilla lugs too. The ARP's I was going to use were .565 (and I am loving the Z you posted ) Edited June 25, 2011 by bertio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertio Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 So as it turns out I should have listened to both of you gentlemen and order the .508 studs... Lesson learned. On a side not I found out I have brembo rotors from an Evo 8 that have been machind to 4x114.3 I need to replace them couldnt I just do that with about any rotor if you were going to machine them anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Pull WHAT hub? The fronts are no more involved than a rotor exchange. The rears... no hub removal required either, if you put some thought into it! Clickety-Click for Hubless Long Stud Installation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertio Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Yeah I ended up getting creative on the front and just griding out a section on the dust shield and was able to get them out. On the rears I have a disc setup so we will see I ended having the wrong studs so I have to reorder and then attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermanpete Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 ARP 100-7708 12mm x 1.5p .508 knurle. We also used these on our car. They fit properly into the stock hubs and work well. Don't use the threads to pull in the studs. Take the hubs off and press them out and back in. We managed to get them out and in with a big hammer. For the rear you can make a support block from a 4x4. Drill holes in it for the studs. The front hub requires two blocks due to the center snout (or a big hole saw). For the best results use a hypdraulic press. Take the hubs to a local shop if convenient. The cost should be minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Any particular reason for not using the threads to pull them in? In my example I didn't even get to 80ft-lbs and they were pulled all the way up. If you're not exceeding the torque of the road wheel, what's the reason for not doing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermanpete Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Any particular reason for not using the threads to pull them in? In my example I didn't even get to 80ft-lbs and they were pulled all the way up. If you're not exceeding the torque of the road wheel, what's the reason for not doing it? I don't have a specific reason. It just seems like an easy way to damage the stud. If the force to pull in the studs do not exceed the yeild strength of the stud and nut then it is fine. In my case I was concerned that the ARP studs have too much interference because they are a little bit larger in diameter than the original studs (the knurled section). Since I don't know how much force is required I opted to install them without using the threads. I had the hubs off anyhow since the ARP studs are too long to install with the hubs in place. I think the OEM studs will go in with the hubs in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertio Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Although pressing them in is ideal, pulling the hubs would be a HUG headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I've used a large C clamp and a deep impact socket over the threads to seat studs before on my Jeep. Not sure if it would fit between the backer plate on a Z though. Didn't take much to seat the stud though. might be able to clamp it through a hole in the plate like that other thread. Just using the lug nut should work I would expect, so long as you visually ensured it was fully seated. Perhaps that's not recommended since you can strip out the knurls on the Stud head if the torque of turning the lug is higher than the force to strip the knurls, if you're careful it shouldn't be a problem, but the C clamp worked for me (on my jeep). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) If they are that tight, they are the wrong size! And if you 'strip the knurls' there is something else wrong like an oversized hub hole requiring an oversized stud knurl (they do make those!) Even PARTIAL engagement of the knurl should be MORE than enough to pull the thread in by hand using a beam-indicating torque wrench. Initial engagement for me has always been done with fingers or at most a bent-nose pliers till the knurl starts. There should be no torsional transmission if the threads are clean and clear on the stud and nut (and I would think with a NEW STUD this would be the case, and that you aren't using gnarly lug nuts!) If the torsional requirement to tighten the nut is that high...SOMETHING IS WRONG! I can't count how many different makes and models I've done that on, you should be NOWHERE NEAR 'yield'! Matter of fact a lot of wheel stud and lugnut torques are under review in the UK right now because of 'right side stud breakage'---seems it's very common for one side to break and not the other. Failure analysis reveals that the sliding of the wheel under the lug nut due to insufficient torque during makeup of the wheel/hub assembly leads to LOOSENING of the nuts (automatically!) and it's being reviewed now to require either higher torques, more frequent re-inspection intervals, or other solutions. Ideally lug nuts are around 75-80% of yield at a proper unlubricated conical seat juncture. If you read my webpage, I was putting them on backwards against rusty washers to pull them up---almost 75% of the 'torque' you get on your wrench is sliding friction under the head of the bolt, 15% is friction from the threads, and only 10% of the torque applied is actually available for tensile application to the stud assembly. In my example, likely this is even lower due to extremely high under-head friction (using the flat against a washer opposed to the conical side against a clean conical seat)...meaning that it's likely maybe only HALF the torque (maybe 5%) is available for tensile loading. (This also goes towards 'high torsional requirement' listed above, if you actually tighten a nut with that much thread friction, you are asking for a broken stud or bolt as the torque you read at seat will be the wrong mix--you will reach 'recommended' torque well before it should be because the 15% expected on the threads is higher, and therefore results in a lower tensile application as the head will still be at 75% of registered torque...so the only way the equation works is the tensile portion is lessened, and loose bolts break!) This should be FAR below any point anywhere near yield point! Of far more concern is people greasing threads, and conical seats and then turning their lug nuts to specified torques. You want a way to pull a stud over yield point? THAT will do it quicker than anything else! Backwards with full nut head against even polished washers is FAR more friction than conical on seat...I have yet to have one pull 'full up' before reaching anywhere near 75% of recommended torque. And just to add this: Show me a flat-rate or commission mechanic who removes the hub and presses them in or out! Not to say that is not a 'proper' method to do it. But taking a beam indicating torque wrench and pulling them in with a reversed nut and some washers won't have ill effect on the studs. Blindly hammering them on with a reversed nut and an impact gun? I'm with you against that... but not as I described on the web page! Edited June 29, 2011 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.