L20et bits on an N/A L28

[montana280z]

Hello All:

 

I am building an "all in by 5500" turbo setup and would like blessings (advise) before proceeding. I know Tony D has had a similar setup in the past, and I would like to hear his thoughts on the matter.

 

The Parts:

Stock NA block/N47 head ~100k miles.

L20ET turbo manifold and turbo.

Non egr L28 intake.

L28ET injectors on aluminum fuel rail w/ gauge.

Stock regulator with 6:1 fmu.

MSA turbo downpipe.

Welded bung on oil pan for return + L20ET oil feed.

Stock NA ECU + electronics.

"locked" NA dizzy + MSD or Mallory retard box.

L20ET J-pipe with 1st gen eclipse BOV.

NA AAC piped to J-Pipe.

 

I am planning on running stock -ish boost levels (6-8 psi) and premium fuel. Is there anything I should be concerned about with the parts choices? Potential concerns when starting motor for first time after work complete? Any friendly advise would be greatly appreciated!

[dexter72]

Which Airflow meter are you going to use?.

 

Your going to have to move the pcv valve location forward in that manifold, or it will interfer with the j-pipe connection at the turbo.

 

You may need the turbo throttle body, check the fit for sure though.

[neotech84]

Sounds like you have your ducks in a row..... AND you have done some searching. GREAT JOB!

 

Now for the more important things..... PICS, I'm thinking if you have that all rounded out in your head your car must be ready for some fun. No?

 

 

Edit:

 

I would watch the cross posting it's frowned on here. Welcome to HBZ.

Edited September 23, 2011 by neotech84

[montana280z]

I was planning on using the NA AFM. I have of people swapping the NA guts into the turbo AFM body for the larger size. As far as the PCV - that's todays project (get these little things done while the manifold bolts/studs soak in PB!) The last thing I have to order is the retard box. I think I will go with the mallory box, unless someone on this board warns me otherwise. Neotech - thanks for the welcome and pics are on the way!

[montana280z]

Progress! Relocated pcv valve on new intake, removed old intake from car. Would have old exhaust off except for stud under water neck - feels like it will break. I will let it soak tonight and tomorrow and break it on Monday. Got some pics, too.

 

Question: Can I delete the little coolant-fed hot plate under the AAC? Is the AAC powered open/close, or is it bimetal spring - end switch setup? My plan is too plumb it to the J-pipe like I've seen on someone else's build, but I'm not sure of the reason. Idle stability? Also, I've seen some turbo builds w/ non egr manifolds where the cold start injector has been deleted. Is this a good idea? I would like to be able to drive the car late spring to early fall, so there may be some cold morning starts.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Pyro]

Use a 8:1 fmu.

 

A 6:1 fmu will not add enough fuel.

[Tony D]

8x6=48(+36)=84psig at 6psi boost.

Not on the stock pump.

 

How much is that FMU? My suggestion would be to properly fuel it with a Megasquirt instead.

 

I used MSD6 BTM for the retard before I saw the light and went Megasquirt.

[Pyro]

You need around 60 psi of fuel pressure with 7 to 8 psi of boost with a na efi setup.

 

A 8:1 fmu with 8 psi of boost makes 64 psi of fuel pressure (8 x 8 =64). I have seen adding 50% of the static fuel pressure to the fmu pressure result, but I haven't seen that in practice. The stock pump will quit flowing around 65 psi always, so it acts like a fmu all by itself.

 

The stock pump will max out around 60 or 65psi with enough flow.

 

Fmu's cost about 100 on ebay. bell engineering makes an adjustable fmu for 225.00

Edited September 27, 2011 by Pyro

[montana280z]

The 6:1 is already paid for and here, so I will go that route and turn boost down (if I can). Take a look at the threaded actuator rod - is that factory? Do I shorten it to make the wastegate open sooner? I plan on the MSD box, and will sell it when I megasquirt (next summer). I just want to get it up and running in the next couple of weeks to goof around before the snow starts flying. I figure I can wire a boost retard quicker than a megasquirt.

 

Here's the turbo and downpipe mocked up so I can mark the oil pan for the return (waiting on manifold gasket).

 

[Tony D]

Stock pumps stall at 60psi, and the stock lines result in more pressure drop.

I don't know about that math, either---as the FPR would then have to utilize a static pressure of 'zero' to get only 64 psi and that won't run the car at all.

 

36 starting point, 6:1 (or 8:1) always meant to me 6psi fuel pressure rise for 1psi in boost so starting at static an -9psi (about 18"HG) you would think it doesn't mean subtracting but rather only affecting fuel pressure on-boost. So with your base fuel pressure (36psi) and a 6:1, I would expect at 6psi boost to have 72psi (6X6=36, 36+base of 36=72psi)

 

This has always been how they worked for me, and even a 6:1 will overtax the stock pump. They work great on VW pumps for CIS which can stand well over 100psi, and you simply run two or three for the power you want to make (or at least that's what I always did) and you will never run lean. But running 60psi at the rail on a stock pump is almost guaranteeing there is a shortfall in flow due to the internal bypass lifting due to line drop.

 

All that being said, two stock pumps on a Megasquirt will run 550's just fine at stock pressures with stock FPR's...

[lowrider]

I guess I will chime in and attest to Tony’s “words of wisdomâ€. I have been down the road your about to travel. I ran KA24e injectors controlled by a stock ecu and 8:1 fmu taxing a stock replacement fuel pump. I ran into this same scenario, my pump would internally bypass before it reached the pressures the fmu was demanding. This caused my setup to lean out higher in the rpm range while on boost. The solution; I put another stock replacement pump Inline to help supplement the pressures demanded. That worked like a charm, I got fed up with the crude-ness of the fmu and bought megasquirt, I’m still running the pump setup to this day.

[Pyro]

Yes, megasquirt would be the way to go. I often find myself fantasizing about getting megasquirt.

 

But for now I stuck with a fmu. I'm currently running 10 psi of boost with around 80 psi of fuel pressure and 30 degrees of locked timing (7.4;1 cr and a stock na cam)

 

I have a 044 bosch fuel pump externally mounted.

[montana280z]

Fuel delivery and engine management aside, here's the latest:

 

Oil pan unglued from block (fun), cleaned, painted, new bunghole!

 

Final (hopefully) mounting of turbo, manifold, downpipe, and oil lines.

[montana280z]

It sounds like I need two inline pumps or one big pump to meet the cars fuel requirement whether MS'd or FMU'd. Does anyone have pics of their twin setup? I would like to see how that is done. Do you just piggyback the power, or run a separate wire from the relay?

[zsteelman]

I have followed some of these posts of NA conversions on the stock electronics, seems a lot of individuals that are running the duel pumps are only running the secondary pump under boost with a hobbs switch activating the pump. Sounds like a good idea, no need to run the pump if it isn't needed. Also I would recommend rewiring the fuel pump with fresh wiring as the factory I have found only pulls 9v to the pump.

 

Definately keep the pics up

[ComicArtist]

I ran pretty much that exact same setup for about two years. Except I ran an 8:1 FMU and a FMIC.

 

Not a bad setup, albeit the 'tune' is a bit shaky in the higher rpms. It pulled fairly hard and ran decent, but it was always a bit lean for my taste and I didn't really like the way the locked distributor feels.

 

I'm just finishing a new setup, and I'll leave feedback when I get it completely running right.

 

It would definitely be a better idea to get MegaSquirt on it and run a proper tune, but on a budget for low boost, I'd say it's reccomendable.

 

Having done it, I question whether I would run the same setup or go MegaSquirt if I were back in the same place two years ago.

 

If this current setup doesn't satisfy me, I'll either:

 

A) Buy MegaSquirt and tune it.

 

or

 

Sell the whole motorset and go back to an NA setup.

 

 

Either way, I look forward to seeing how this turns out.

[Pyro]

I dumped all the extra pumps and installed one 044 bosch pump. This pump is a monster and quiet. Amazon had the best price for the pump and summit racing has the metric fittings.

 

I kept the hob switch and use it to power the pump with "battery" voltage on boost. I did this because I noticed the original wire to the pump only has 9-10 volts when running (I guess due to old wire?). 10 volts to the pump off boost makes it even quieter.

[montana280z]

Intake manifold, injectors, fuel rail, stock fpr, fmu installed. Starting to get crowded in there. What's the best (easiest, cheapest) way to do AFM to turbo?

 

Can I supply both fpr and fmu with the same vac line from the manifold (tee), or should I run separate?

 

Up next: locking dizzy, temporary attachment of downpipe to old exhaust, MSD retard, bov on j-pipe, bosch 044 fuel pump, fuel rail gauge, boost gauge,

[Pyro]

I moved my afm to the front of the raditor. Cut the wires and lenghten them.

 

Yes, the fmu and share the manifold vacuu,/pressure line.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Pyro

[montana280z]

Update!

 

Installed AFM, Locked distributor, attached downpipe to old exhaust. Everything hooked up temporarily for start/idle test. I wanted to make sure car would run before I tackled msd retard ignition (also waiting on blow off valve).

 

Starts and runs!

Problems:

Banjo bolt @ turbo leaks even when really tightened - should I order new, or is there a better fix?

Idles very rich and rough - I push back hard on afm counterweight and she smooths out quite a bit. Is this going to be a drastic adjustment (lots of teeth on the gear) to lean it out?